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Old April 7th, 2006, 03:20 AM   #41
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Old April 7th, 2006, 05:58 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by heavyzakura334
Bush did not. He's not that smart. However, the government knew of the attack before it happened.

who in the government exactley? How many were in on it? In what departments and agencies? How long did it take them to plan? Where is the Linda Tripp that has yet to come forward to blow the roof of the plot? Why hasn't there been a Linda Tripp willing to gain tens of millions of dollars in book and media fees by teling their story? Since you have the answers you HAVE to know!
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:10 AM   #43
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Dude, WTC Conspiraries threw videos are so 2003...
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:12 AM   #44
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It dosnt add up but thats because the Government is being so secretive.

I think its just stupid to think that the US Government would do something so dramatic to her own citizens, get real.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:21 AM   #45
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Being a Structural Engineer student I can tell you that it's very possible that WTC 7 collapsed due to the numerous fires inside it.

I think the government would be smart enough to not make their collapses look like demolitions if they would really do something like this.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:25 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by STR
Yeah, really. Pure 100% lunacy. What you, and other conspiracy theorists do is, rather than research the topic like I did, you pull bizzare claims of government coverups and alien agendas out of your ass.

7WTC collapsed due damage from Tower 1's collapse combined with a fire caused by diesel fuel meant to power emergency generators which heated colums that didn't have proper fire protection.

No bombs. No secrets. Just a bad series of events combined with non-conforming safety measures in a building built to lax 1968 NYC building codes.
Youíre a idiot mate. Read my posts and I think you will find I never claim to know any facts retard unlike your knowledgeable self, my issue is the reasons people believe in these theories and could it be true based on there valid concerns and reasons behind forcing the argument and thats completly fare. Even without bombs there is still huge political firestorms and government conspiracy theories are irrelevant because of governments actions since that date regarding the integrity of the USA thats been completly steamrolled.

(not to do simply with the towers collapse there are reasons for why they collapsed and the official story of what happened is 100% valid there are still other possibilities and thatís the truth, I am a pawn and would not be stupid enough to take everything on face value, perfectly reasonable not crazy or wako)

Re read my posts.

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Sec. 31 But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as anyone can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others. Nothing was made by God for man to spoil or destroy. And thus considering the plenty of natural provisions there was a long time in the world, and the few spenders, and to how small a part provision the industry of one man could extend itself, and ingross itself to the prejudice of others.
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Last edited by Citystyle; April 7th, 2006 at 06:56 AM.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:33 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Citystyle
and reasons even without bombs there is still huge political issues and weather or not it was government conspiracy is irrelevant because of actions since that date regarding the integrity of the US of A.

Re read my posts.

No offense, but your post are not really coherant enough to make sense out of.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:36 AM   #48
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^




LOL
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:36 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by heavyzakura334
great answer.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:45 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by tootshibbard
Citystyle, it is almost too much temptation for me to sit here and mercilessly mock your coherency and obtuse reasoning but I don't care to get banned.

You believe in such drivel because you likely have an expedient ideological worldviews that needs some conspiracy theories to thrive to propagate your twisted reasoning. I will just chalk it up to aliens that have come to ones house and vacuum sucked peoples ones brain.
No conspiracy theory just some reasoning. Whose good and who's evil, whose actions are worse and why you would take a hypocritical side of argument. I believe two planes hit WTC causing weakening of the super structure because of damaged fire proofing causing the top to fall down breaking the building open explaining the peeling effect; there is a chance the WTC rusted over time causing a thermite reaction when the fire proofing failed and thus the quick melting of core and collapse . This is as valid as any conspiracy theory but there is no way to know if it occurred or not.

And I told you about WTC7 already.

Unlike u I donít bullshit or make prejudged ideas about the world. Saying something is beyond your belief is exactly that nothing more? My political views are potent lib-realism true but this is humanistic based and nothing more than concern for society as a whole nothing to do with anything else. If your mind canít see that there is no black and white and bin laden could be a liberator to some and the anti-Christ himself to others thatís to bad because you fail to recognize some of the most important characteristics about humans.

I like to feel humanity is not lost but people like you make me feel very down.
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Sec. 31 But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as anyone can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others. Nothing was made by God for man to spoil or destroy. And thus considering the plenty of natural provisions there was a long time in the world, and the few spenders, and to how small a part provision the industry of one man could extend itself, and ingross itself to the prejudice of others.
- John Locke
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Old April 7th, 2006, 07:08 AM   #51
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I hope we have common ground now.
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Sec. 31 But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as anyone can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others. Nothing was made by God for man to spoil or destroy. And thus considering the plenty of natural provisions there was a long time in the world, and the few spenders, and to how small a part provision the industry of one man could extend itself, and ingross itself to the prejudice of others.
- John Locke
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Old April 7th, 2006, 07:35 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citystyle
Youíre a idiot mate.
Ad hominem, the act of attacking the person rather than the argument. A desparate attempt to bully the opponent when one has lost an argument.

And you have lost. Half the forum has called you out and you done nothing to support your argument.

Quote:
Read my posts and I think you will find I never claim to know any facts
That what reason to you have to believe your hypothesis? All rational thought is based on facts, if you have none, then you're just making shit up because you want to.


Quote:
My issue is the reasons people believe in these theories and could it be true based on there valid concerns and reasons behind forcing the argument and thats completly fare.
You've already admitted to having invalid reasoning behind the 7WTC collapse. I really don't want to imagine to patchwork of emotion and fiction that amke up your other "valid concerns."

Quote:
Even without bombs there is still huge political firestorms and government conspiracy theories are irrelevant because of governments actions since that date regarding the integrity of the USA thats been completly steamrolled.
I'd comment on this, but your grammar is so bad and incoherent that I have no idea what you're saying.

Quote:
(not to do simply with the towers collapse there are reasons for why they collapsed and the official story of what happened is 100% valid there are still other possibilities and thatís the truth
No. There are no other possibilities. 7WTC collapsed because of fires started by the collapse of 1 & 2 WTC which were hit by airliners flown by members of Al Qaeda. That is the one and only truth.

Quote:
I am a pawn and would not be stupid enough to take everything on face value, perfectly reasonable not crazy or wako)
You're actually right here, you're not a pawn. The term for a person like you is a pigeon. You'll believe just about anything provided it's delivered to you in the right manner. My advice: stay away from pop-up ads, car dealerships, and carnie folk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citystyle
No conspiracy theory just some reasoning.
Nope. Conspiracy theories are based on emotion, not reasoning. The rest of your 2nd post is total crap. There was no rusting in the WTC. I don't think you have any idea what thermite is either.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 08:31 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
Ad hominem, the act of attacking the person rather than the argument. A desparate attempt to bully the opponent when one has lost an argument.
Correct it is personal because you didnít listen, that follows on to me calling you a name to get your attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
And you have lost. Half the forum has called you out and you done nothing to support your argument.
English? Support my argument for what that American has used these events to act in the name democracy but commits acts of tyranny and war. righto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
That what reason to you have to believe your hypothesis? All rational thought is based on facts, if you have none, then you're just making shit up because you want to.
First half makes little sense, funny how you talk about facts but in your posts in this thread you have stated none. Other than you know the truth and thatís if official story. Well ride on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
You've already admitted to having invalid reasoning behind the 7WTC collapse. I really don't want to imagine to patchwork of emotion and fiction that amke up your other "valid concerns."
No. I said why you could be lead to believe it was a bomb I also explained why it could have not been a bomb; I also posted some of FEMA's explanations for it. (FEMA admits more research is needed to find the exact cause of 7's collapse).

Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
I'd comment on this, but your grammar is so bad and incoherent that I have no idea what you're saying.
Americans actions post September 11 would make allot of people question 911. US government has killed enough people post 911 making a government conspiracy irrelevant, America has hit the fan. Nobody trusts it anymore so why believe the 911 story from a clearly crazed and ideology based government that has little regard for human life.
More and More people believe the theories what does that tell you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
No. There are no other possibilities. 7WTC collapsed because of fires started by the collapse of 1 & 2 WTC which were hit by airliners flown by members of Al Qaeda. That is the one and only truth.
Possibilities are in the realm of imagination, not some idealistic comment but true. More crazy things have happened, but you deal with absolutes and canít bring yourself to believe otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
You're actually right here, you're not a pawn. The term for a person like you is a pigeon. You'll believe just about anything provided it's delivered to you in the right manner. My advice: stay away from pop-up ads, car dealerships, and carnie folk.
Your so clearly an Americans. I love how you know me so well? Is there a point to this at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
Nope. Conspiracy theories are based on emotion, not reasoning. The rest of your 2nd post is total crap. There was no rusting in the WTC. I don't think you have any idea what thermite is either.
Conspiracy theoryís are based on reasoning and thinking about the whole picture and bringing it together, emotion based may cause the search and lead it on many occasions but it's still the ability to find reason.
Youíre so cute when your clueless i was just saying there is as much chance that the government involvement theoryís can be explained away by that theory. Your getting smarter but they still donít teach reading in the US eh.
Iron oxide (rust) and aluminum mixing in a chemical reaction (thermite), when a thermal reaction occurs it gets damn hot.
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Sec. 31 But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as anyone can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others. Nothing was made by God for man to spoil or destroy. And thus considering the plenty of natural provisions there was a long time in the world, and the few spenders, and to how small a part provision the industry of one man could extend itself, and ingross itself to the prejudice of others.
- John Locke
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Old April 7th, 2006, 08:44 AM   #54
STR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citystyle
English? Support my argument for what that American has used these events to act in the name democracy but commits acts of tyranny and war. righto.
Iraq is irrelavent to this subject.

Quote:
First half makes little sense, funny how you talk about facts but in your posts in this thread you have stated none. Other than you know the truth and thatís if official story. Well ride on.
I quoted several sources from the leading authority on the subject. You pulled BS out of your ass to go with a bogus website.

Quote:
(FEMA admits more research is needed to find the exact cause of 7's collapse).
FEMA has not and will not advocate the kind of crap theories you're espousing.

Quote:
More and More people believe the theories what does that tell you?
It tells me nothing, because that's the bandwagon fallacy.


Quote:
Possibilities are in the realm of imagination, not some idealistic comment but true. More crazy things have happened, but you deal with absolutes and canít bring yourself to believe otherwise.
Hot air. Completely irrelavent.

Quote:
Your so clearly an Americans. I love how you know me so well? Is there a point to this at all?
Ad hoinem. My nationality, as well as yours, is irrelavent and merely an attempt to derail the discussion.

Quote:
Conspiracy theoryís are based on reasoning and thinking about the whole picture and bringing it together, emotion based may cause the search and lead it on many occasions but it's still the ability to find reason.
Youíre so cute when your clueless i was just saying there is as much chance that the government involvement theoryís can be explained away by that theory.

From Wikipedia: Conspiracy Theory

Allegations exhibiting several of the following features are candidates for classification as conspiracy theories. Confidence in such classification improves the more such features are exhibited:

1. Initiated on the basis of limited, partial or circumstantial evidence;
Conceived in reaction to media reports and images, as opposed to, for example, thorough knowledge of the relevant forensic evidence.
2. Addresses an event or process that has broad historical or emotional impact;
Seeks to interpret a phenomenon which has near-universal interest and emotional significance, a story that may thus be of some compelling interest to a wide audience.
3. Reduces morally complex social phenomena to simple, immoral actions;
Impersonal, institutional processes, especially errors and oversights, interpreted as malign, consciously intended and designed by immoral individuals.
4. Personifies complex social phenomena as powerful individual conspirators;
Related to (3) but distinct from it, deduces the existence of powerful individual conspirators from the 'impossibility' that a chain of events lacked direction by a person.
5. Allots superhuman talents or resources to conspirators;
May require conspirators to possess unique discipline, unrepentant resolve, advanced or unknown technology, uncommon psychological insight, historical foresight, unlimited resources, etc.
6. Key steps in argument rely on inductive, not deductive reasoning;
Inductive steps are mistaken to bear as much confidence as deductive ones.
7. Appeals to 'common sense';
Common sense steps substitute for the more robust, academically respectable methodologies available for investigating sociological and scientific phenomena.
8. Exhibits well-established logical and methodological fallacies;
Formal and informal logical fallacies are readily identifiable among the key steps of the argument.
9. Is produced and circulated by 'outsiders', often anonymous, and generally lacking peer review;
Story originates with a person who lacks any insider contact or knowledge, and enjoys popularity among persons who lack critical (especially technical) knowledge.
10. Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science;
At least some of the story's believers believe it on the basis of a mistaken grasp of elementary scientific facts.
11. Enjoys zero credibility in expert communities;
Academics and professionals tend to ignore the story, treating it as too frivolous to invest their time and risk their personal authority in disproving.
12. Rebuttals provided by experts are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative;
When experts do respond to the story with critical new evidence, the conspiracy is elaborated (sometimes to a spectacular degree) to discount the new evidence, often incorporating the rebuttal as a part of the conspiracy.'

Quote:
Your getting smarter but they still donít teach reading in the US eh.
Iron oxide (rust) and aluminum mixing in a chemical reaction (thermite), when a thermal reaction occurs it gets damn hot.
Thermite is a type of exploseive, however, since it's obvious english isn't your main language, the english term you're looking for is "exothermic reaction," which did not happen at the WTC, save for the combustion of the jet fuel and office materials. Iron oxide and aluminum had nothing to do with the collapse and did not react in any way.
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Build your own Model Skyscrapers** New World Trade Center (2006-) 3D Model ** World Trade Center (1971-2001) 3D Model

Last edited by STR; April 7th, 2006 at 08:53 AM.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 08:48 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STR
From Wikipedia: Conspiracy Theory
Works the same way relgion does.
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Sec. 31 But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as anyone can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others. Nothing was made by God for man to spoil or destroy. And thus considering the plenty of natural provisions there was a long time in the world, and the few spenders, and to how small a part provision the industry of one man could extend itself, and ingross itself to the prejudice of others.
- John Locke
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Old April 7th, 2006, 08:50 AM   #56
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u know what, it was imploded... There, go celebrate your victory and small celebrity status that you figured out the "real" secret behind 9/11, because your mystery solving skills are far beyond the Goverments, or anyone else for that matter. You should win the nobel peace prize, and become head of of the FBI, because you knew all along didn't you! You slick thing...
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Old April 7th, 2006, 08:54 AM   #57
STR
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^No he's still full of crap, but I'm done arguing with a deranged child.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 09:11 AM   #58
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(FEMA admits more research is needed to find the exact cause of 7's collapse). Hmm nothing to do with conspiracy theory it's just what they said, the exact cause of the fire is not yet known. Dont meddle with facts for your rant, what bogus from the arcticles you put up? please begin to read my posts it's getting anoying.

HoustonTexas thnx but im no beleiver in conspiracys STR has labbled me one since i first posted in this thread. Said i knew nothing yet presented very little minded argument, ignored my posts and then continues arguing. I keep an open mind to events and understand well enough why people beleive theorys, just like STR only he thinks there poorly founded, i think there is nothing wrong with addressing the issue of conspiricys.
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Sec. 31 But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as anyone can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others. Nothing was made by God for man to spoil or destroy. And thus considering the plenty of natural provisions there was a long time in the world, and the few spenders, and to how small a part provision the industry of one man could extend itself, and ingross itself to the prejudice of others.
- John Locke
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Old April 7th, 2006, 09:21 AM   #59
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"Iraq is irrelavent to this subject."

(lol you still read clearly events prior to 911 raise questions about 911 and US's integrity i already raised this)



"I quoted several sources from the leading authority on the subject. You pulled BS out of your ass to go with a bogus website."

Did not, did to, did not.
??? i wont get involved with that lol.


"FEMA has not and will not advocate the kind of crap theories you're espousing."

I got that from your FEMA link?



"It tells me nothing, because that's the bandwagon fallacy."

Already pointed out and i raised the issue?


"Hot air. Completely irrelavent."

Not to all people.




"Ad hoinem. My nationality, as well as yours, is irrelavent and merely an attempt to derail the discussion."

Exactly by it was refering to you knowledge of the english language somthing americans love to abuse.


"Thermite is a type of exploseive, however, since it's obvious english isn't your main language, the english term you're looking for is "exothermic reaction," which did not happen at the WTC, save for the combustion of the jet fuel and office materials. Iron oxide and aluminum had nothing to do with the collapse and did not react in any way."

I never said it did, i said that was a lickley as the conspiricy theory (2nd time ive defended my thermite statement that you did not read correctly in the first place)
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Sec. 31 But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as anyone can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others. Nothing was made by God for man to spoil or destroy. And thus considering the plenty of natural provisions there was a long time in the world, and the few spenders, and to how small a part provision the industry of one man could extend itself, and ingross itself to the prejudice of others.
- John Locke
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Old April 7th, 2006, 09:24 AM   #60
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Iíve had it. I wont post in this thread again as he clearly has been un-able to understand the issues I am raising. I agree to disagree.
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Sec. 31 But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as anyone can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others. Nothing was made by God for man to spoil or destroy. And thus considering the plenty of natural provisions there was a long time in the world, and the few spenders, and to how small a part provision the industry of one man could extend itself, and ingross itself to the prejudice of others.
- John Locke

Last edited by Citystyle; April 7th, 2006 at 09:32 AM.
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