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Old April 7th, 2006, 10:06 AM   #61
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:26 PM   #62
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[QUOTE=Citystyle]
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Unlike u I donít bullshit or make prejudged ideas about the world
Your U.S. hating spews on not only this subject diminished any claims of bias you have. So in fact more then most I would say based on other post I know I have seen of yours you have are VERY biased. Much so more then the average flag waving American loving citazen. You are no less biased and have a handle on the truth then they do no matter what your claims are otherwise.

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If your mind canít see that there is no black and white and bin laden could be a liberator to some and the anti-Christ himself to others thatís to bad because you fail to recognize some of the most important characteristics about humans.
Yea, I think its pretty black and white that Al-Quida and the type of governments he espouses are pretty evil and in fact it is a black and white. Would 90% of the world rather live in the type of Taliban society Bin Ladin helped to form or would most in the world rather live in the U.S.?
Yes, Bin Ladin is evil trash. I think anyone who advocates and is part of a government that shoots women in the head because they are found in a house with a male non-relative and who makes people of other faiths wear armbands denoting their religions among other things is pretty farkin evil. With your logic that nothing is black and white one could easily explain away Germans who fell in love for Nazism during WW2. I ain't buying into that moral relavist crap.
Do you think some who support him in the Muslim world feel that Afrian Americans who don't like the treatment of blacks would be liberators if they flew planes into downtown Khartoum? Not likely.
Just because some see him as a hero doesn't make him virtous or them right. Do you think that any Americans that would excuse away any and all of America's crimes are virtous and right? TARGETING innocent civilans and inciting violence based on religous creed in Madrid, New York, Baghdad, and the like does not make a good man.

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Old April 7th, 2006, 07:42 PM   #63
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I donít hate the US I love the US it's a great nation and the events of the last 5 years have smeared its name. America will have to do allot to win back my trust and the trust of others I think thatís fare enough.

Hardliner polices that disturb freedoms and excite attacks at American that they are hypocritical is a policy blunder and thatís not post 911 thatís for the last 40 years im afraid my nations doing it to and it's concerning. Most Muslims believe bin laden to be evil there is no doubt about what he's been accused of doing, very evil. More to the point is bush evil no, but he's acts have been. My point is that the "baby killers" are forcing acts of violence and causing a cycle. Bin lad enís hypocritical because he refuses to lay down arms unless America does and canít see himself as an aggressor only as a beaten dog. Society and the people need to regain control and do whatís right.

I was talking about fear, passion, love, hate they caused the 11th of September attacks and the reaction. Bin laden offered peace, could that not be seen as a positive thing, donít link Bin laden to neo conservative Islamic views he stands very much outside the square on many Islamic issues.

Also the NIST report is very good. Comparable to the CSIRO and AS doing a investigation in Australia if they were.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 08:10 PM   #64
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Bush did not. He's not that smart. However, the government knew of the attack before it happened.

Grow up!! Yes I'm sure government officials risked being found guilty of the deaths of thousands of Americans for some daft reason you read on a website. No government official would dare take part in such a plan as if found out, they would go down in American history as the worst Americans ever, not to mention the fact that they would also be executed.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 08:39 PM   #65
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^ Exactly. What conspiracy theorists don't realize is that in order for those ludicrous schemes (like faking a moon landing) to work, hundreds, if not thousands of people need to shut up about it for the rest of their lives. Bush isn't a good guy but I doubt he was willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of American lives (let's not forget that initially people thought that about 25,000 people had died) just so that he could invade Iraq.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 02:07 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Kampflamm
^ Exactly. What conspiracy theorists don't realize is that in order for those ludicrous schemes (like faking a moon landing) to work, hundreds, if not thousands of people need to shut up about it for the rest of their lives. Bush isn't a good guy but I doubt he was willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of American lives (let's not forget that initially people thought that about 25,000 people had died) just so that he could invade Iraq.
Well the interesting thing is that if Bush was willing to sacrifice 2,348 american lives in Iraq so far (source: http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/), I don't think he gave any shit about initial 2,749 lives that were lost on September 11th (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center).

I'm not trying to support conspiracy theorists though. Just trying to point out the obvious fact that Bush doesn't really care about anyone else but himself and his dogs.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 03:52 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by bziherl
Well the interesting thing is that if Bush was willing to sacrifice 2,348 american lives in Iraq so far (source: http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/), I don't think he gave any shit about initial 2,749 lives that were lost on September 11th (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center).

I'm not trying to support conspiracy theorists though. Just trying to point out the obvious fact that Bush doesn't really care about anyone else but himself and his dogs.
You seriously can't compare a war to this. The soldiers that signed up knew that they might be killed, while the people in the planes and buildings were just regular joes. Bush might be a moron, and Cheney might be a cold-hearted dick, but they're not crazy enough to actually risk the death of tens of thousands of Americans just so that they can (insert reason for Iraq war...).
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Old April 8th, 2006, 04:50 PM   #68
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Citystyle, stop being such a goose. It doesn't matter that your evidence for your theory is shoddy, you cannot provide a motive for a conspiracy. And, if as you say you accept the buildings collapsed because of the planes, why then is there a conspiracy about WTC7. Motive?
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Old April 8th, 2006, 04:59 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm
You seriously can't compare a war to this. The soldiers that signed up knew that they might be killed, while the people in the planes and buildings were just regular joes. Bush might be a moron, and Cheney might be a cold-hearted dick, but they're not crazy enough to actually risk the death of tens of thousands of Americans just so that they can (insert reason for Iraq war...).
I'm not trying to compare war to anything. Although speaking of regular joes....I believe there were more than 30,000 regular joes killed in Iraq since 9/11.....that's more than 10 regular joes for each death in WTC. Now, this truly are tens of thousands, which one cannot say for WTC disaster. I doubt Saddam would have managed to kill that many regular joes in the same amount of time, if this war didn't start.

However: what I was trying to say is that Bush generaly doesn't care for lives. Let it be the lives of American soldiers (who know they might be killed) or the lives of regular joes.

Last edited by bziherl; April 8th, 2006 at 05:07 PM.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 05:02 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bziherl
I'm not trying to compare war to anything. Although speaking of avarage joes....I believe there were more than 30,000 avarage joes killed in Iraq since 9/11.....that's more than 10 avarage joes for each death in WTC. Now, this truly are tens of thousands, which one cannot say for WTC disaster. I doubt Saddam would have managed to kill that many avarage joes in the same amount of time, if this war didn't start.

However: what I was trying to say is that Bush generaly doesn't care for lives. Let it be the lives of American soldiers (who know they might be killed) or the lives of regular joes.
Again, those Iraqis were killed in a war. Bush might not care too much about them but he'd be crazy to go thru with a plan in which he risks the death of tens of thousands of Americans (as I mentioned earlier on, initially people feared that up to 25,000 people had died). Can you imagine what would happen if that plan was ever uncovered?

That's the problem with most of these conspiracy theories. First of all, the plan is ludicrous and nobody in their right mind would actually carry it out, and secondly, people who were involved in it would at some point talk (I mean this would be the story of the century).
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Old April 8th, 2006, 05:08 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Kampflamm
Again, those Iraqis were killed in a war. Bush might not care too much about them but he'd be crazy to go thru with a plan in which he risks the death of tens of thousands of Americans (as I mentioned earlier on, initially people feared that up to 25,000 people had died). Can you imagine what would happen if that plan was ever uncovered?

That's the problem with most of these conspiracy theories. First of all, the plan is ludicrous and nobody in their right mind would actually carry it out, and secondly, people who were involved in it would at some point talk (I mean this would be the story of the century).
Just a second......wasn't WTC the beginning of the war too?? War against terrorism? Weren't people killed in WTCs also victims of the war? What I can remember from 9/11 is more or less americans speaking of war.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 05:12 PM   #72
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What does this have to do with anything? The point I made was that Bush obviously doesn't care as much about Iraqi civilians as he does about Americans (although contrary to the terrorists, the US army doesn't target civilians), hence he'd never carry out any sort of pseudo-terrorist attack against his own countrymen, an attack which would probably result in his own death.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 05:29 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm
What does this have to do with anything? The point I made was that Bush obviously doesn't care as much about Iraqi civilians as he does about Americans (although contrary to the terrorists, the US army doesn't target civilians), hence he'd never carry out any sort of pseudo-terrorist attack against his own countrymen, an attack which would probably result in his own death.
Okay, I don't know where you've got the idea that Bush cares for American civilians, but that's okay. The point is that US army may not be targeting civilians, and yet it has managed to produce such environment in Iraq where civilians are getting killed on a daily basis.

And one who is capable of supporting such incompetent military action, that has caused so many deaths, is most likely able to do just about anything ... even carry out any sort of pseudo-terrorist attack against his own countrymen.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 05:45 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by bziherl
I'm not trying to compare war to anything. Although speaking of regular joes....I believe there were more than 30,000 regular joes killed in Iraq since 9/11.....that's more than 10 regular joes for each death in WTC. Now, this truly are tens of thousands, which one cannot say for WTC disaster. I doubt Saddam would have managed to kill that many regular joes in the same amount of time, if this war didn't start.

However: what I was trying to say is that Bush generaly doesn't care for lives. Let it be the lives of American soldiers (who know they might be killed) or the lives of regular joes.

30,000 'regular Joe's in Iraq"? Because 30k civilans have been killed in Iraq that is somehow "proof" that Bush would have had no qualms conspiring in 9-11? If that is the case then Churchill, Roosevelt, Wilson, and almost EVERY other leader who took their country to war where more then 30k civilians were killed by logic would have also conspired in 9-11? What BS logic my friend.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 05:47 PM   #75
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Just a second......wasn't WTC the beginning of the war too?? War against terrorism? Weren't people killed in WTCs also victims of the war? What I can remember from 9/11 is more or less americans speaking of war.

No, the U.S. had been getting attacked by Al-Quida and other Islam-fascist for decades up untill 9-11. It was just the first time that the U.S. felt it was warrented to go and fight back (other then the Libya bombings in Munich).
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Old April 8th, 2006, 05:51 PM   #76
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And one who is capable of supporting such incompetent military action, that has caused so many deaths, is most likely able to do just about anything ... even carry out any sort of pseudo-terrorist attack against his own countrymen.

sorry, that is the ultimate dolt logic theory. All hate and conjecture and very short on anything substaniated.

Does 5 x 5 suddlenly = -192?
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Old April 8th, 2006, 05:55 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by tootshibbard
30,000 'regular Joe's in Iraq"? Because 30k civilans have been killed in Iraq that is somehow "proof" that Bush would have had no qualms conspiring in 9-11? If that is the case then Churchill, Roosevelt, Wilson, and almost EVERY other leader who took their country to war where more then 30k civilians were killed by logic would have also conspired in 9-11? What BS logic my friend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
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Old April 8th, 2006, 06:09 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by tootshibbard
30,000 'regular Joe's in Iraq"? Because 30k civilans have been killed in Iraq that is somehow "proof" that Bush would have had no qualms conspiring in 9-11? If that is the case then Churchill, Roosevelt, Wilson, and almost EVERY other leader who took their country to war where more then 30k civilians were killed by logic would have also conspired in 9-11? What BS logic my friend.
It's not those who in their defense start conflicts that would be problematic. It's those who are re-starting decades old conflicts and cause massive deaths because of no good reason, that are problematic. You should understand that.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 06:14 PM   #79
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sorry, that is the ultimate dolt logic theory. All hate and conjecture and very short on anything substaniated.

Does 5 x 5 suddlenly = -192?
What exactly does this have to do with WTC7?

What I was trying to say is that if someone is as mad enough to go into a war (based on fake allegations) that would last for years and years and still bring absolutely nothing good, might as well be mad enough to do pseudo-terrorist attacks against his own nation, because of some same fake virtual reasons.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 06:26 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by bziherl
And one who is capable of supporting such incompetent military action, that has caused so many deaths, is most likely able to do just about anything ... even carry out any sort of pseudo-terrorist attack against his own countrymen.
Sorry, but I don't see any logic behind that. A majority of Americans was in favor of the Iraq war. Let's have a poll and ask people if they're in the favor of terrorist attacks against their own country. Bush could never have orchestrated anything on the scale of 9/11 w/o someone finding out about it and then he'd probably be charged for high treason and mass murder.
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