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Old August 27th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #2341
brisavoine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
"frog yes but ex londoner" you declare.
No further comments required.
Justement, seuls ceux qui ont vécu (et non simplement voyagé) dans l'auto-proclamée gloooôobol city peuvent vraiment réaliser que ce n'est vraiment pas le paradis que certains voudraient nous faire accroire. Mais va en faire l'expérience par toi-même. La livre n'a jamais été aussi basse, idéal pour un déménagement.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 08:24 PM   #2342
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Je ne pourrais certainement pas y vivre...Paris fait plus vivable certainement..Juste que ldn c'est à 2 h d'ici que c facile d'y aller..voilà tout et oui les tours sont plus belles là bas, je ne reviendrai pas là-dessus. La province m'appelle de toute façon. Paris et ldn = villes de merde à mon avis.

Back to English please or readers will go away..

Can a mod please delete all those useless posts. Thanks
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Old August 27th, 2010, 08:24 PM   #2343
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The Wilmotte tower is lovely, a very interesting form. Takes the title of my favorite Paris project. Am I right in recalling that it was previously a proposal for one of the big competitions, Phare or Hermitage possibly?
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Old August 27th, 2010, 08:37 PM   #2344
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It was for the Signal competition. Hermitage was originally a project in that competition too.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 09:55 PM   #2345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
voilà tout et oui les tours sont plus belles là bas


C'est sûr que T42, on en voudrait beaucoup des comme elle à Paris tellement qu'elle est belle à regarder...
Quote:
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Can a mod please delete all those useless posts. Thanks
Including post #2335.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 09:58 PM   #2346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle Guy View Post
The Wilmotte tower is lovely, a very interesting form. Takes the title of my favorite Paris project.
I prefer the Hermitage Towers. The Phare Tower could also turn out to be a divine surprise, judging from the spectacular pieces of cladding exposed outside that we've seen so far.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 10:07 PM   #2347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
"frog yes but ex londoner" you declare.
No further comments required.
My turn to end this 'conversation' with a spoiled kid. The 'frog yes but ex londoner' line does not have a hidden message.As Brisavoine said, I know London extremely well for living there several years, I know it pretty much like my pocket. I won't get into the ridiculous & childish Paris Vs London debate, as I said several times every city has its strenghs & weaknesses and regarding those two, I love them both for different reasons.Contrary to you though, liking one doesn't prevent me from liking the other. As much as I do appreciate London's projects (not a secret for my british comrades), I personally am keen on ours as well. Right now, London has been living the best period of its history regarding the construction of skyscrapers (would it have been the same if London had failed to host the Olympics...?) which is not the case of Paris(well, awaiting Hermitage Plaza & Phare of course). London is currently the city to look at given the size & design of its tall buildings but once their completion ,the situation is likely to be a lot calmer in the next decade.

If I was in your shoes I'd grow weary of saying the same negative stuff every single day regarding the capital(YOUR capital whether you like it or not), it really is pathetic and once again, so childish... I can tell you that I & Brisavoine are not the only ones to be fed up with your daily crap comments about LD, far from it, but after all, if that amuses you, so be it then. Fortunately, "le ridicule ne tue pas"...

Full stop, back on topic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newcastle Guy, you're right indeed, Wilmotte had taken part to the Tour Signal contest (won but eventually 'lost' by Nouvel). However, that's just a rumor for the time being (it comes from some forumer working at a key place), nothing is official yet but I hope it will be as it's great looking imo. Whatever happens, a new project is expected to take over Nouvel's ex Tour Signal which always is good news. So, wait & see.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 12:51 AM   #2348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
I prefer the Hermitage Towers. The Phare Tower could also turn out to be a divine surprise, judging from the spectacular pieces of cladding exposed outside that we've seen so far.
Well I guess that's why I said MY then I personally find the Phare Tower to have a very ungainly form which I have had a lot of trouble getting to like, and the 'back' (front? Flat side anyway) seems like an after thought to me.

As for Hermitage, my main reason for liking that is the fact that it is a twin tower development. IMO that will be the iconic image of La Defense, the twin towers of Hermitage, I don't think the project would have nearly as much 'clout' or potential if it just had the one tower.

The form of Wilmotte's Tower is far more interesting, and it appears as though it will be pleasant for any angles it is viewed from.

Good news about the new Tour Signal also, Nouvelle's wasn't the worst project I have seen, I didn't mind it at all in fact, but if it weren't for the large colorful atriums midway up the building it would have been rather boring for such a prime project.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 02:41 AM   #2349
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FIrst taken by Milo92 on 27 august:



I'm loving it .
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Old August 28th, 2010, 02:43 AM   #2350
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to tell the truth i never quite understood how on earth Cyril, being a moderator, can do all over entire threads what so many moderators stop us from doing : city bashing or city Vs city

even if sometimes it's kinda subtle but it's annoying because i think now most of us have gotten his message right...

Myself i don't find the current tower constructions in Paris area that much overwhelming...but at least i have the decency to keep low profile ===> get a life !

my 2 cents
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Old August 28th, 2010, 01:57 PM   #2351
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Man, it was like 2 years ago since my last view of this topic, there were a lot of proposals, nice highrises, iconic skyscrapers, and the rest just few conceptual drawings. And I'm amazed of all those projects going on and ready to be U/C even with global recession.

In particular Tour Osmose was one of those 'just renderings' that I wouldn't have thought it was gona be finally built, and what a surprise! It has the wow factor other towers lack, definitely new icon!

LD was my fav euro skyline, lacked high maybe, but future is bright. No one can match this cluster, it rocks.
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Last edited by SkyLerm; August 28th, 2010 at 02:38 PM.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 02:06 PM   #2352
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Hi,
I think, its also one of the best skylines in Europe. So definitely it reaches their expectation.

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Old August 28th, 2010, 08:39 PM   #2353
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Oyez, oyez braves gens...

Yesterday Minato Ku, myself, and the unfairly banned forumer Metropolitan went to the town hall of Puteaux to check the administrative dossier of Phare Tower. That's the administrative dossier the developer needs to submit before obtaining a building permit (the building permit was officially issued last month). The thousands of pages in the dossier, with lots of graphs and plans, were extremely informative. We made some photocopies and Minato Ku is going to scan some and upload them on the forum shortly.

In the meantime, here are a few data I gathered in the dossier. After checking the most detailed graphs and plans, I can tell you the exact height of Phare Tower from street level to the tip of the "hair" above the tower will be 297 meters (974 feet). From the concrete slab of La Défense to the tip of the "hair", the height will be 287 meters (942 feet).

The tower will contain exactly 74 floors (plus 3 underground levels if I remember correctly... waiting for Minato Ku's scans to confirm). 3 floors will be between the street level and the concrete slab, and 71 floors will be above the concrete slab (i.e. when walking from the Grande Arche, you'll have 71 floors towering above you). The last floor accessible to the public will be the 70th floor (i.e. the 66th floor above the concrete slab). This floor will contain a high-end restaurant and a sky lounge looking over Central Paris. The last 4 floors above the restaurant will be technical floors (cooling system, machinery, etc.).

Now here is the interesting bit: the restaurant and lounge will be the highest viewpoint accessible to the public in Paris, higher than the 3rd floor of the Eiffel Tower. The reason for that is because La Défense is a hill, and Phare Tower will stand towards the top of the hill. The street level at the bottom of Phare Tower is exactly 52 meters above sea-level, whereas the street level at the bottom of the Eiffel Tower is 33.5 meters above sea-level. As a result, when you're on the third floor of the Eiffel Tower, you're 310 meters above sea-level, but those standing in the restaurant and lounge of Phare Tower will be 319 meters above sea-level. Or to put it differently, when you're standing on the third floor of the Eiffel Tower, you're 274 meters above Central Paris, whereas when standing in the restaurant and lounge of Phare Tower you'll be 283 meters above Central Paris.

What else. The shape of the tower at its base is incredibly complex, but Minato will tell you more with his scans. The tower will literally straddle the pedestrian bridge that goes over the Boulevard extérieur, so when going on the bridge over that boulevard, you'll be walking below an arch in a building towering 287 meters above you, with both feet of the tower on each side of the bridge. There'll be a third foot near the CNIT if I remember correctly, with a massive elevator reaching an elevated entrance lobby (can't remember on which floor). This elevated lobby standing in the air above the concrete slab will itself have amazing dimensions, with its ceiling several floors above it (can't remember how many floors, but there are many... it's going to look like the ceiling of a cathedral in terms of height). All of this will appear more clearly in Minato Ku's scans.

All in all, a truly sci-fi building. The esplanade before the Grand Arche will never look the same after this tower is built. I think no render so far has done real justice to the actual surreal dimensions and shapes of the tower at its base.

Last but not least, from a distance Phare Tower will look almost as tall as the Eiffel Tower. That's because it's built on top of a hill. The tip of the "hair" will be 349 meters above sea-level, whereas the top of the Eiffel Tower's antenna is 358 meters above sea-level. Phare will also look as tall as the Hermitage Towers. From street level, the Hermitage Towers are significantly taller than Phare Tower (323 m for the Hermitage Towers vs. 297 m for Phare Tower), but the Hermitage Towers will be built at the bottom of the La Défense Hill, so their summit is "only" 350 meters above sea-level, i.e. almost exactly the same as Phare Tower.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 08:40 PM   #2354
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Here is a diagram I've made to illustrate what I was saying in the last post. All towers are at the same scale.

[img]http://i38.************/2a0dqx0.png[/img]

Last edited by brisavoine; August 28th, 2010 at 08:49 PM.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 12:07 AM   #2355
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Fantastic work guys, nothing more to say, thanks for your determination.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 12:14 AM   #2356
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Indeed, vey good work. I hope the investors are as determined as you are...
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Old August 29th, 2010, 12:52 AM   #2357
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"I hope the investors are as determined as you are..."

So do I lol
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Old August 29th, 2010, 12:55 AM   #2358
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Many thanks Brisavoine for this valuable information!It's so exciting... So nice to have some accurate figures as well...

Your diagram is very informative and shows clearly what you just explained. I'm particularly happy to hear that the viewing floor dedicated to the public will be located this high (pretty much at the very top of Phare) that's excellent news, the view over Paris will be stunning!It's reassuring all the more since the relative bad news about Hermitage Plaza as its viewing area will only be around the 30th floor according to Iskenderov (MIPIM 2010), I'm fairly sure not to 'bother' the future very well off flat owners who might be quickly annoyed by the endless comings & goings of tourists...

Thank you very much indeed guys for your highly appreciated initiative!

I now look forward to Minato's scans !



PS: any news about the clad btw? I heard a few months ago that the metallic one would actually be way too dangerous in case of fire and therefore needed to be modified...at the time they said they wanted to create a similar looking clad but made of a different material.Cheers folks!
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Old August 29th, 2010, 01:18 AM   #2359
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Great efforts guys, congratulations and thank you very much

I want to ask about the tower of Jean Michel Wilmotte want to know about your current situation and about the sources of the news recently, the Phare Tower demolition to start soon?

A question for the french, I review numbers and numbers on the french economy and see little growth but I want to ask you about the situation that is lived day by day, as you can see the economy?

Well thank you very much again for all of these great works
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Old August 29th, 2010, 01:19 AM   #2360
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Quote:
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I hope the investors are as determined as you are...
Judging from the thousands of pages in the dossier, the very detailed studies, very detailed drawings and maps, etc., they seem quite determined. What I've seen means huge amount of time and money spent working on Phare already. I can't imagine that they would just waste so much time and money for no purpose.
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