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Old August 17th, 2006, 03:35 PM   #301
Newcastle Guy
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Oh excellent it is turning into another London vs Paris discussion. Why can't we just discuss the merits of both cities, and compare the changes they are about to go through instead of being all high and mighty about it on both sides?
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Old August 17th, 2006, 03:44 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle Guy
Oh excellent it is turning into another London vs Paris discussion. Why can't we just discuss the merits of both cities, and compare the changes they are about to go through instead of being all high and mighty about it on both sides?
Because there's always a forumer, Black Cat here for instance (probably an english forumer), who brings London back in this thread with some stupid comments!!! My question is why there's absolutely no Forumer doing the same in the "London-Full summary of projects" thread?
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Old August 17th, 2006, 03:52 PM   #303
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I see no problem in mentioning London in comparison, providing all the information is right and people don't try to use the conversation as an excuse to cause arguments. I would see no problem with Paris being mentioned in a London thread, like I said for comparison, but not someone coming along and going "We are better because..."

A civilised debate is a good thing, unlike petty arguments.
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Old August 18th, 2006, 07:24 AM   #304
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Theres not much point mentioning London on a Paris thread as anyone who knows how the office market works in both cities will know what happens in Paris or London has very little bearing on the other.

They would also know that for LD in Paris & CW in London they make up a very small amount of the total office space in each city. Both Lodnon & Paris, being the huge cities that they are have many different office locations with the great majority of offices being in offices in the 8-10 storey mark.

What was posted a while back which started the London V Paris thing was an iljudged comment that was wrong.

I'm happy for Paris to develop at whatever pace, same for London & dont feel theres a need to compare the cities on each others development thread as 9 times out of 10 if will degenerate into petty rivarly threads as happens on these forums.

Good luck to Paris & good luck to London- Amen
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Old August 18th, 2006, 09:43 AM   #305
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Actually, I am very impressed with the approach of Paris to invest in LD over the next decade. This sounds to be a very ambitious project as a whole - one of the most interesting recent developments in Europe - which may hopefully result in more excellent skyscrapers in the City. The images which I have seen on this thread certainly demonstrate a desire to create new types of skyscraper designs. When I referred to "scale" and made comparisons to CW, it was simply to raise that there is going to be a phenominal amount of work happening. I assume that we will be watching much very concentrated construction over the coming decade equivilent to what was happening at CW in the early 90s and in recent years. Also, I assume (correctly or otherwise) that the size/heights/floorplates of the new LD buildings are anticipated to be similar to those of CW - though I assume they will not be as boxy. Please bear in mind too that conceptually CW is very much the child of LD, hence the two do lend themselves to comparisons and demonstrate that Paris and London do share some commonalities while also having their distinctive characters, both new and old.

As with other forumers, I wish the best to Paris and look forward to a great crop of new skyscrapers that will set or raise the standards for all!
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Old August 21st, 2006, 03:23 PM   #306
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It looks like construction of the 165 m.(541 ft) twin towers in Levallois-Perret is about to start. One French forumer reported last week that the letters F.I.A.T. were removed from the Fiat building which the twin towers will replace. So it seems demolition of the Fiat building is likely to happen anytime now. According to the official calendar, the twin towers are due to be completed and opened in June 2009, when they are delivered to Spanish developer Fadesa.

Some pictures again:

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Old September 28th, 2006, 06:07 PM   #307
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Four hours ago, on France2, the second largest French TV channel, it has been announced that the architect contest for the so-called "tour signal" ("iconic tower") in La Défense has been launched. The great news is about the height of that tower. Initially, it had been announced that it would be 400 m. (1,300 ft) tall, then last July the Minister of Public Works gave official government approval for the tower (and the rest of the La Défense development project) but said that the tower would be less than 300 m. (1,000 ft) tall, after pressure from apparently no less than 73 y/o Jacques Chirac who was afraid that this new tower would be taller than the Eiffel Tower which is standing at exactly 324 m. (1,063 ft) with its antenna.

Then today France2 has reported that the contest was launched for a tower that will be "between 300 m. and 400 m.", so apparently we're now back to a higher height than announced last July. Even more exciting, the director of the La Défense Authority was interviewed by France2 and declared: "We intend this tower to be visible from all points within Greater Paris." Given that the Eiffel Tower is not itself visible from all points within Greater Paris, the "tour signal" of La Défense would have to be significantly higher than the 324 m. (1,063 ft) Eiffel Tower to achieve such a feat.

In recent weeks, other news leaked out in the French press about possible skyscrapers within the City of Paris itself and also within the inner suburbs (St Denis, etc.). I haven't had time to update the thread with this fresh batch of news, but will do so very soon.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 06:23 PM   #308
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Wow that is great news! a 300+ tower is amazing for Paris, even if its not higher then Eiffel Tower. I hope the design will be world class, but since it is a contest I'm pretty sure about that. This is what Paris needs to become a real skyscraper city, La Defence is massive but not so tall yet.

Keep the news coming Brisavoine!
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Old September 28th, 2006, 06:38 PM   #309
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Don't you just hate it when someone starts complaining about a skyscraper just because of it's height, even if it isn't in a flight path? We get that all the time, it is SERIOUSLY annoying. Anyway at least it won't be shorter than 300m+, and like you said it could even be as tall as 400m. That's a great height range for Europe. Hell 200m+ is a great height range for Europe lol!
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Old September 28th, 2006, 08:01 PM   #310
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^those flight paths are a real pain in the ass, but in this case, I believe LD is clear from both CDG and Orly's paths.
What I really hate, is when a NIMBY group complains about the height, because it would block their view. Now that is annoying. I believe London had the same problem because of St-Paul, or was it Big Ben, for the construction of the LBT, if I'm not mistaken.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 08:26 PM   #311
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The biggest problem of Paris is the pseudo ecologist people

Paris would be the city with the most skyscrapers clusters in western Europe.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 08:50 PM   #312
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I don't know why you're talking about flight paths and the Green Party. The Green Party is in the City of Paris, not in La Défense, which lies outside of the City of Paris's administrative territory. The Greens don't care what happens outside of the City of Paris. All there is here, from what I understand, is opposition from a very conservative old man, Jacques Chirac, who will retire in May next year. Apparently the back and forth in the tower height is explained by complex feuds in the higher spheres of the French government which I have already explained if you re-read previous posts. Bernard Bled, the director of La Défense Authority, is supported by Nicolas Sarkozy, presidential hopeful, and opposed by Jacques Chirac and Dominique de Villepin. During the television interview, Bled said that the height of skyscrapers nowadays is more like in the 500 m. - 800 m. range, and that in China they're even planning a 1.2 km. high skyscraper, so the 300 m. - 400 m. range for the "tour signal" in La Défense is rather "rigorous" as he put it. All he's trying to say really, is that some people in the government are too conservative.

Last edited by brisavoine; October 2nd, 2006 at 12:30 AM.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 09:54 PM   #313
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What I meant was it is bad enough when there is a reason (Flight paths) But when it is just old and/or posh people complaining it gets very annoying.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 10:33 PM   #314
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Sorry
I talking about Paris not La Defense

Bled is very clever

Code:
Bled said that the height of skyscrapers nowadays is more like in the 500 m. - 800 m. range, and that in China they're even planning a 1.2 km. high skyscraper, so the 300 m. - 400 m. range for the "tour signal" in La Défense is rather "rigorous" as he put it.
I love this !
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Old October 1st, 2006, 08:56 PM   #315
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Bled is The Guy for the future of La defense.
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Old October 2nd, 2006, 12:48 PM   #316
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A 300-400m tower would fit perfectly into La Défense. Right now the 3 or 4 tallest skyscrapers have about the same height, which is a big minus for a skyline in my opinion. I always had the feeling La Defense needs one structure a lot higher than the current buildings.
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Old October 2nd, 2006, 07:05 PM   #317
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One guy on the French forum reported that the demolition of the Fiat tower, which stands on the lot where the Levallois twin towers will be built, is now in its final phase, with only the concrete structure remaining, with gaping holes in it. So it looks like the 165 m. (541 ft) Levallois twin towers should start construction pretty soon now. Check post #306 above for pictures of the towers.

That means we should have 4 skyscrapers taller than 150 m. (500 ft) simultaneously under construction in Greater Paris (2 in La Défense and 2 in Levallois, see map below), which hasn't happened in a long time.

Here are pictures of the Fiat tower taken last week.





It looks like some kind of war-torn district of Beirut, and yet it's only 3 km. (2 miles) north of the Champs-Élysées.

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Old October 3rd, 2006, 12:55 AM   #318
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A forumer on a French Skyscraper-fan forum is working on the model of one of the 10 designs of our famous "Tour signal". The drawings he has in hands indicate a total height of 350m excluding any antenna. The tower would be just next to the CNIT, surrounded by 3 existing towers of 185m+ (T1, Total and Areva) and two of 150m+ (Egee and Adria) . This is a 99% sure information!

Unfortunately, he can't say more...
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 05:24 AM   #319
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350 m is a wonderful height!!!It will have a fabulous impact in LD.
Anyone knows when we will be able to see the renders of Tour Signal and the other towers?
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 08:31 AM   #320
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Calm down people..This is only ONE project out of 10. OK this one is 350m but others may be shorter...or taller?
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