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Old April 1st, 2012, 11:08 PM   #3501
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Old April 1st, 2012, 11:21 PM   #3502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
You didn't pay proper attention then. Paris is a bigger city than London, so of course the cranes are more spread out than in London, but the Paris Crane Survey and the London Crane Survey show that there are actually more cranes in Paris than in London.
Having said that, it seems quite obvious that the number of cranes in central Paris (the 11 central arrondissements = historical heart of Paris) is much lower than the number of cranes in central London (city + westminster).

There is only one big project currently under construction in central Paris. Not much is changing here unlike central London. You cannot deny the obvious.

But let's go back to topic : PARIS
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Old April 1st, 2012, 11:25 PM   #3503
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But the city is not limited to the 11 central arrondissements. That's precisely the point. Tourists tend to visit only those arrondissements, so they don't have a true vision of Paris. In the case of the English forumer above, however, given that he's a member here and cannot not know the many projects and developments outside the 11 central arrondissements, I'd tend to think it's more trolling than real ignorance.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 12:05 AM   #3504
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A new school by Feichtinger and an office development by Wilmotte in Nanterre, west Paris.



http://www.archdaily.com/218772/scho...r-architectes/
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 12:35 AM   #3505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clery View Post
Actually no... The UN world urbanization prospects put Paris ahead of London, as well as the OECD:
List of metropolitan areas in Europe (Wikipedia)

The problem in that discussion is that the UK office for national statistics doesn't publish any metropolitan area statistics, so we have no official figure for its actual size.

On the other hand, we do have statistics for both cities regarding urban areas, and Paris is officially bigger than London in that regard:

Cities work differently anyway. Paris is denser both in its central area and its suburban area. However, Paris is located in a low density region, whereas London surrounding countryside is a lot more populated. This doesn't necessarily mean its metropolitan area is larger though, as all those surrounding towns around London can have their own metropolitan areas by themselves.

I don't want to sound pushy, but I do have problems to consider how London could "feel" bigger. London is less dense, it has a smaller city center, its main avenues are narrower, the average building height is lower in the center. I guess it's all a matter of perception, but unless one considers Paris ends at the peripherique, I can't see how it could be "feeling smaller" than London.
I disagree with this. London's metro region is described by the Greater London Authority as being 18 million, and that was at the 2001 census!! That region includes much of SE England, including places beyond the continuous urban sprawl, but does that matter when London/SE England is connected by the most extensive network of urban and commuter rail in the world? (Possible exception of Tokyo.)

I also think London feels bigger when out there on the streets. Central London is denser than Paris. There are hundreds of buildings of 10 storeys+ in central London, from the bulkier Victorian and Edwardian buildings, to 60s concrete slabs, to contemporary. Central Paris has barely a handful of buildings of that height, even on its largest and grandest avenues. There's also far less commercial space in central Paris. The City of London is easily the densest urban district in Europe (and I'm talking here of urban density, not residential density), and the West End has a greater density of offices, shops, entertainment, pedestrians, etc, than any part of Paris. In general Paris feels less busy and slower.

I disagree that the area of central Paris is larger by area, too. Look on any map and measure the area from east/west and north/south that's needed to cover the major landmarks. It's about the same for both cities. I agree that Paris retains a consistent density over a larger area beyond the centre, but I don't really consider areas like the 15th, for instance, to be central Paris any more, let alone anywhere beyond the Peripherique.

Paris also feels stagnated next to London. I recently returned to Paris after a long absence (I used to go there very frequently). I spent three days walking all over the central Paris, revisiting all my old haunts. Almost nothing had changed. By contrast central London is is a constant state of flux: new shops, restaurants, bars, hotels, buildngs, everything!! That feeling of constant flux, busier street life, along with the the greater density/volume of commercial space, is why London always feels more "big city" than Paris.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 12:43 AM   #3506
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Shut up you troll and go back to the topic.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 12:53 AM   #3507
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Langur, you're mixing up different concepts. The 18 million figure was based on an unofficial estimate of London "combined statistical area" (CSA). The US concept of CSA is about grouping together several metropolitan areas which do share some connections between each others.

That figure doesn't come from the British Office of National Statistics though. It's only an estimate. However, even if we don't have any official figure, there are strong chances that London CSA (South East England) is indeed larger than Paris CSA (Paris basin). Paris CSA has been calculated by INSEE around 16 million people if I remember correctly. That comes from the fact South East England is a lot more populated than the Paris basin.

I won't answer to the rest of your post as all you're stating is highly subjective and you're free to think whatever you want. I would just say that I highly doubt the 20th arrondissement was part of your visit.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 12:56 AM   #3508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rue Quincampoix View Post


A new school by Feichtinger and an office development by Wilmotte in Nanterre, west Paris.



http://www.archdaily.com/218772/scho...r-architectes/
That's an interesting development I wasn't aware of Rue Quincampoix.


Where is it located exactly?
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:04 AM   #3509
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In fact that 18 million figure came from a propaganda leaflet by the Greater London Authority in the days of booster-in-chief Ken Livingstone. In fact they didn't go as far as claiming that London had a metropolitan area of 18 million people (that would have sounded too ridiculous), so they simply stated that London was at the center of a "metropolitan region" (vague term never defined) of 18 million people (a "metropolitan region" which went as far as including the Isle fo Wight ). Of course some forumers jumped on that propaganda leaflet and used it to claim that London had a metropolitan area of 18 million people (conveniently forgetting that the Greater London Authority had talked of a "metropolitan region", not a "metropolitan area").
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:05 AM   #3510
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By the way, I've recently discovered a very authentic youngish Taiwanese restaurant in the heart of Paris' central business district that certainly didn't exist a few years ago, and which is way more authentic than anything I've ever seen in London in terms of younger Chinese trends.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:06 AM   #3511
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:19 AM   #3512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
In fact that 18 million figure came from a propaganda leaflet by the Greater London Authority in the days of booster-in-chief Ken Livingstone. In fact they didn't go as far as claiming that London had a metropolitan area of 18 million people (that would have sounded too ridiculous), so they simply stated that London was at the center of a "metropolitan region" (vague term never defined) of 18 million people (a "metropolitan region" which went as far as including the Isle fo Wight ). Of course some forumers jumped on that propaganda leaflet and used it to claim that London had a metropolitan area of 18 million people (conveniently forgetting that the Greater London Authority had talked of a "metropolitan region", not a "metropolitan area").
There's no difference in meaning between and "area" or "region" in this context, and one doesn't need to extend London's to include the Isle of Wight to get a figure of 18 million.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
By the way, I've recently discovered a very authentic youngish Taiwanese restaurant in the heart of Paris' central business district that certainly didn't exist a few years ago, and which is way more authentic than anything I've ever seen in London in terms of younger Chinese trends.
How ridiculous. I used to have a Taiwanese girlfriend and now I have a Chinese fiance. They both found Paris's Asian food awful. I've also travelled to both countries (to China lots of times), and speak/read/write some level of Mandarin. London has vastly more authentic Chinese restaurants than Paris, from Michelin starred glamour down to humble baozi street stalls. In terms of "young Chinese trends", bear in mind that London has more Chinese students than any city in the world outside Asia. Paris's Asian food offering is mainly comprised of god-awful places with hoardings like... "Traiteur Specialites Thailandais, Vietnamien, Chinois" etc. Those places are crap. They can't even decide what kind of Asian cuisine they serve.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 02:00 AM   #3513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgroutage View Post
What about Eurostat?

European Union harmonised stats

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larger_..._by_population

Albeit taken from Wiki..
Yes, the LUZ is rather approximative but that's probably as good as Eurostat could go. Remember that Eurostat doesn't make its own stats, it only treats stats from national statistics offices. As such, Eurostat faces the same problem as everyone, which is that the British ONS doesn't publish anything regarding British metro areas.

It's been a long time I haven't focused on LUZ but in my memory it's very approximative. For instance, the figure for Paris LUZ is the the one of Ile-de-France region, whereas Paris metro area is physically different from it in real.

But I guess it gives a good general idea, which is probably the most important after all.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 02:13 AM   #3514
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 02:25 AM   #3515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgroutage View Post
?? Losing the plot dude.

Are you now claiming there is a greater Asian influence in Paris?

Delusional
I don't know well enough Asian restaurants in both cities to tell you where are the best places to eat, however, be careful not to under-estimate what you don't know.

The Asian communities in Paris are very big, and some of them are in the city since a very long time. These communities are also very integrated in the economical system of Paris. We're not simply talking about typical fast food restaurants here, we talk about large-scale manufacture. We usually talk about the chinatowns : the oldest in the 3rd arrondissement (Wenzhou community), the South-East Asian in the 13th arrondissement, the Han mandarin Chinese in Belleville, the suburban one in Lognes, but there's also a huge industrial boost in places such as Aubervilliers or Pantin.

But anyway, there's also more than London and Paris in Europe. We have a big chance in Europe which is that our cities host large communities coming from all countries in the world. It's great London and Paris are multi-cultural but so are Berlin, Madrid, Milan, Brussels or Amsterdam. This should be one of our strength in the world for this 21st century.

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Old April 2nd, 2012, 02:30 AM   #3516
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Are you now claiming there is a greater Asian influence in Paris?
Greater South Asian influence in London, but greater Eastern Asian influence in Paris, definitely. The Eastern Asian community in Paris is the largest in Europe, due to the numerous Indochinese immigrants, and now mainland Chinese immigrants.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 02:33 AM   #3517
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 04:13 AM   #3518
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why London always feels more "big city" than Paris.
What? Get off the the 'high streets' and see if London always feel more 'big city' than Paris. I have been living in London for more than a year now and I can tell you that London does not have that big city feel everywhere. I live in Waterloo, which is pretty much Central London, 5 minutes away from Big Ben and the London Eye, and I can guarantee that my street is like one of a village. To be completely honest, I think this whole Paris vs London debate is stupid, because the truth is that I really like that village feeling of London. The fact you can find calm streets filled with 2 storey high buildings in the heart of the city. But please, don't say that London is denser than Paris, because it is not. London is not dense at all. Ok, there are tall towers here and there, but the vast majority of this city consists of low rise buildings.

AWESOME! you have a girlfriend from Asia!! So what? How is that relevant? The asians living in Paris are not the same as the one living in London. I know people from both communities and I know for a fact that the asians living in Paris come from South Asia rather than China. But I mean, who cares what city has the most asians to be honest.... London and Paris are both big metropolitan areas and both have big asian communities. Does it really matter if one city or the other have a couple of hundred more asians than the other? Asian "traiteurs" are not good enough for you?? Soho restaurants aren't any better mate, c'mon.... Paris has awesome asian restaurants, but like everything good in Paris, they are underground and not known from the entire tourist population. Langur! Trust me, next time you go to Paris, go to "Thaisil" restaurant, adresse: 3 rue du Nil. If you don't like the food there, then you are nothing else than a hater

I don't like this debate, but it keeps coming back on SCC and it's annoying. So I feel forced to say this (I have to defend Paris over London):
I love London, but who can deny that London has lost it's charm? I feel like London has lost its identity, it is completely disconnected from the rest of the UK. I'm sorry to say that, but it doesn't really have an English culture anymore, it's kind of like the US (and I am american). I have been living here for more than a year and I can't seem to find the English or UK culture here. Everyone I meet is from elsewhere... It doesn't feel like the authentic "London" anymore. Whereas, I feel like Paris will never looses it's identity. It is truely a unique city.

Plus, just wait two years or so, when the London Olympics will be done (And trust me, you will be glad it's done because they are not going to be outstanding Olympics). The Paris metropolitan area will be full of new towers. Just take a look at what's happening now. You may want to deny it, but there are already more than three tall towers U/C in La Defense + Philarmonie, French Pentagone, Fondation Vuitton, New Halles, Beaugrenelle ( which are HUUUUUGE constructions) + so many other projects (French forumers rarely post the updates on the international forum and it's a shame)... all U/C. You will see, in a couple of years when Hermitage Plaza will dominate the skyline of La Defense, and the entire DENSE Paris metropolitan area, you will probably stop commenting on this thread. Because I don't find a couple of London towers sticking out of the forest that impressive to be honest... London is SO overrated today. And Paris, weirdly, is overrated but underrated in a lot of ways... It's a shame.

Look, London is a good city. But it is far from being the best city in the world. So please stop trolling in this thread because you will get bashed by other forumers for this. And not necessarily by proud french forumers but by other international forumers who love Paris and can't seem to fall in love with London.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 04:14 AM   #3519
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I think they are just jealous. Notice how these comments always come from London forumers.
I'm not from London...
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 05:19 AM   #3520
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The exhibition venue in Porte de Versailles will gradually be too small..and another place will have to be found out of Paris city to replace it. I have the feeling that the current location will become a high-rise area and that the remaining halls next to Tour Triangle will be demolished to build skyscrapers...Time will tell.

2 large rendered pictures :



(c) Herzog & De Meron / Archdaily

Now that's I call rubbish! Almost at the same level as London Torch Tower.
Will it be ever built? Jesus, say no, please.

Paris has everything to lose if this non sense tower get built. The shape is awful, the cladding is awful and the surrounding is awful either.

Sorry, but I see nothing worth liking.
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