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Old April 28th, 2013, 07:25 PM   #4821
letranger
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Merci, brisavoine. J'aime vos tables et graphiques))
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Old April 28th, 2013, 07:26 PM   #4822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFiBkIlLeR View Post
All very interesting, but you still haven't backed up your claim that Paris has more being developed than this...
Many things could be told about Paris extensive preexisting HSR network (and still expanding to Barcelona, Turin), 200km of new metro lines with the Greater Paris project (30 billion euros for this project alone!), huge developments at CDG airport and its surroundings (new terminals, EuropaCity, Aerotropolis), RER E being expanded westbound... but we're really getting into city vs city and that's forbidden by the rules of this forum.

And for the matter, your list of development is crap compared to the one of any average-sized city in China.
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Last edited by Clery; April 28th, 2013 at 07:35 PM.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 07:27 PM   #4823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post

Most of these are midrise developments though. Residential highrises are still a bit taboo in Greater Paris, due to the bad experience with highrise social housing in the 1960s and 1970s, but I believe this is going to change. Emin Iskenderov is about to break a taboo by building his supertall mostly residential twin towers at La Défense, and in Central Paris there are more and more talks of densifying the already very dense inner city by building upwards. Jean Nouvel has started by building a residential highrise in Boulogne-Billancourt 2-3 years ago, and there may already be some other residential highrise projects around the Périphérique, but I'm not following these very carefully.
This was also the case in London until very recently and high rise is now slowly losing its taboo.

Is the social housing being pulled down ?
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Old April 28th, 2013, 07:27 PM   #4824
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Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Well there is

Still waiting..
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Old April 28th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #4825
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By far the main problem that causes most of the people concentrate all their attention only in the centre of Paris is due to his pathetic territotial administration. We desperately need a Greater Autority to finally see the city like a real big Metropole.

That's why, when people look for projects in Paris they don't take into consideration the amazing ones that are going on outside of the f*@king périphérie
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Old April 28th, 2013, 07:50 PM   #4826
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Originally Posted by deckard_6 View Post
Oh, please! Do not dare to troll this deeply interesting discussion, we are about to know which city is better, if London or Paris.

Please kids, go on with your argumentation.
i remember to have open a certain thread years ago
"London vs Paris: the match" on british section
It has been closed because it was a heavyweight boxing match with serious blows from each side
At least it enabled to let in peace thread like this one.

seriously Paris makes well with all those projects
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Old April 28th, 2013, 08:01 PM   #4827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFiBkIlLeR View Post
All very interesting, but you still haven't backed up your claim that Paris has more being developed than this..

In your own time, there's no rush, we can wait...
No need to spam this thread with reams of posts about developments and projects in London, Mr. troll.

A simple look at Eurostat statistics will clear up whether London has more investment than Paris or not.

Let's look at gross fixed capital formation (GFCF), which is the component of GDP that reflects the amount of investment in an economy in a given year (as opposed to consumption and net exports, which are the other components of GDP).

In 2006, the last year for which data are available, the GFCF of Greater Paris was 114 billion euros.

That same year, the GFCF of Greater London + Essex + Herts + Bedfordshire + Bucks + Berks + Oxon + Surrey + West and East Sussex + Kent was only 78 billions euros. And I have used an area larger than any conceivable definition of the London metropolitan area (and in any case much larger than Greater Paris), and a year (2006) when the sterling pound was still overvalued compared to the euro (since 2009, the GFCF of Greater London + those 10 counties has plunged due to the sterling pound collapse, being now only 60 billion euros).

So as these figures show, the amount of investments in the Paris economy is far superior to the amount of investments in the London economy (€114 bn vs ca. €60 bn). No need to make an endless list of development and projects, you can simply check the Eurostat database: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/por.../data/database
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Old April 28th, 2013, 08:05 PM   #4828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clery View Post
Many things could be told about Paris extensive preexisting HSR network (and still expanding to Barcelona, Turin), 200km of new metro lines with the Greater Paris project (30 billion euros for this project alone!), huge developments at CDG airport and its surroundings (new terminals, EuropaCity, Aerotropolis), RER E being expanded westbound... but we're really getting into city vs city and that's forbidden by the rules of this forum.

And for the matter, your list of development is crap compared to the one of any average-sized city in China.

The scale of development in most western cities dosnt compare with China, so not really sure what your point is.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 08:07 PM   #4829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
No need to spam this thread with reams of posts about developments and projects in London, Mr. troll.

A simple look at Eurostat statistics will clear up whether London has more investment than Paris or not.

Let's look at gross fixed capital formation (GFCF), which is the component of GDP that reflects the amount of investment in an economy in a given year (as opposed to consumption and net exports, which are the other components of GDP).

In 2006, the last year for which data are available, the GFCF of Greater Paris was 114 billion euros.

That same year, the GFCF of Greater London + Essex + Herts + Bedfordshire + Bucks + Berks + Oxon + Surrey + West and East Sussex + Kent was only 78 billions euros. And I have used an area larger than any conceivable definition of the London metropolitan area (and in any case much larger than Greater Paris), and a year (2006) when the sterling pound was still overvalued compared to the euro (since 2009, the GFCF of Greater London + those 10 counties has plunged due to the sterling pound collapse, being now only 60 billion euros).

So as these figures show, the amount of investments in the Paris economy is far superior to the amount of investments in the London economy (€114 bn vs ca. €60 bn). No need to make an endless list of development and projects, you can simply check the Eurostat database: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/por.../data/database
2006?
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Old April 28th, 2013, 08:20 PM   #4830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcwallander View Post
2006?
He's just desperately trying to dig himself out of the hole he dug for himself, he can't back his claims up, so he does his usual thing of finding any stats that can be manipulated to fit his narrative, he takes apples to oranges comparisons to whole new levels of absurdity.

2006..lol.

He can't provide an up to date list of projects showing more development in Paris, because there isn't one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
No need to spam this thread with reams of posts about developments and projects in London, Mr. troll.

A simple look at Eurostat statistics will clear up whether London has more investment than Paris or not.

Let's look at gross fixed capital formation (GFCF), which is the component of GDP that reflects the amount of investment in an economy in a given year (as opposed to consumption and net exports, which are the other components of GDP).

In 2006, the last year for which data are available, the GFCF of Greater Paris was 114 billion euros.

That same year, the GFCF of Greater London + Essex + Herts + Bedfordshire + Bucks + Berks + Oxon + Surrey + West and East Sussex + Kent was only 78 billions euros. And I have used an area larger than any conceivable definition of the London metropolitan area (and in any case much larger than Greater Paris), and a year (2006) when the sterling pound was still overvalued compared to the euro (since 2009, the GFCF of Greater London + those 10 counties has plunged due to the sterling pound collapse, being now only 60 billion euros).

So as these figures show, the amount of investments in the Paris economy is far superior to the amount of investments in the London economy (€114 bn vs ca. €60 bn). No need to make an endless list of development and projects, you can simply check the Eurostat database: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/por.../data/database

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Old April 28th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #4831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcwallander View Post
2006?
Yes. 2006 is the last year for which we have data for the GFCF of Greater Paris. These things take time to compute at the regional level.

Here the evolution of the GFCF since 2002:

[img]http://i44.************/33zdaae.png[/img]
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Old April 28th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #4832
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Hey!!..it's meaningless chart #153434354 from Brisavoine.

Very interesting, but when are you going to provide a CURRENT list of Paris developments to prove your claim that Paris currently has MORE projects under construction right now, in 2013?

I don't think you can, because you're way out of your depth right now and just attempting to bullshit your way through.

GIVE ME THE LIST.

I'm perfectly willing to take this to another thread if you wish, so as not to derail this one any further with your nonsense claims.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #4833
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DeFiBkIlLeR, and you wonder why the Paris thread has such a post count, it's you that keeps posting here and looking at people's post that pumps it up!
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Old April 28th, 2013, 08:50 PM   #4834
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Originally Posted by Matthieu View Post
DeFiBkIlLeR, and you wonder why the Paris thread has such a post count, it's you that keeps posting here and looking at people's post that pumps it up!
I'm just asking him to provide proof of his claims, and will take it elsewhere so as not to go off topic here, but he's just ignoring my request..

..and we both know why the thread count goes up around here, it's nothing to do with me visiting it.


Wow!, one sys Admin and one Mod comes calling, has Brisavoine come crying to you already?
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Old April 28th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #4835
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Originally Posted by Matthieu View Post
DeFiBkIlLeR, and you wonder why the Paris thread has such a post count, it's you that keeps posting here and looking at people's post that pumps it up!
The Paris post count is much lower!

It is the view count that keeps being purposefully changed so that it is larger than the London one. This is really not necessary!
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Old April 28th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #4836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFiBkIlLeR View Post
I'm just asking him to provide proof of his claims, and will take it elsewhere so as not to go off topic here, but he's just ignoring my request..

..and we both know why the thread count goes up around here, it's nothing to do with me visiting it.


Wow!, one sys Admin and one Mod comes calling, has Brisavoine come crying to you already?
Oh please!

Who's currently trolling this PARIS thread with considerations about ANOTHER city?

"City vs City" discussions are forbidden by the SSC rules. You should be glad you haven't been warned yet.

So you want to know about big billion euros projects in Paris? Here are those I can think of:
  • Grand Paris Express: 27 bilion euros
  • Lyon-Turin HSR (Paris connexion to Italy): 26 billion euros
  • New line Paris Normandie: 15 billion euros
  • Seine-Arche: 5 billion euros
  • Canal Seine Nord: 4.3 billion euros
  • RER E westbound: 3.7 billion euros
  • Aerotropolis: 3 billion euros
  • CDG Service developments+Satellite S4: 3 billion euros
  • Batignolles developments: 2.7 billion euros
  • CDG Terminal 4: 2.4 billion euros
  • EuropaCity: 2 billion euros
  • Hermitage Plaza: 2 billion euros
  • Forum des Halles: 1 billion euros
  • Tour Phare: 1 billion euros

Happy now?
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Old April 28th, 2013, 09:06 PM   #4837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcwallander View Post
The Paris post count is much lower!

It is the view count that keeps being purposefully changed so that it is larger than the London one. This is really not necessary!
Much lower than what?

Why are Londoners constantly trolling this thread about Paris? Do you lack of self-confidence or something?
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Old April 28th, 2013, 09:07 PM   #4838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFiBkIlLeR View Post
Very interesting, but when are you going to provide a CURRENT list of Paris developments to prove your claim that Paris currently has MORE projects under construction right now, in 2013?
Given the past trend, the inertia of any economy (it's not like London could have switched from an economy based on consumption to an economy based on investment overnight), plus the collapse of the sterling pound in 2008, it's quite unlikely that the curves would be any different now.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 09:09 PM   #4839
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Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Given the past trend, the inertia of any economy (it's not like London could have switched from an economy based on consumption to an economy based on investment overnight), plus the collapse of the sterling pound in 2008, it's quite unlikely that the curves would be any different now.
You are so wrong, inward investment in London has gone up by around 30% in the last few years - you need to do some real research!
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Old April 28th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #4840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clery View Post
Oh please!

Who's currently trolling this PARIS thread with considerations about ANOTHER city?
Why is asking for proof of claims made by someone trolling?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clery View Post
"City vs City" discussions are forbidden by the SSC rules. You should be glad you haven't been warned yet.
I'm not doing a City vs City discussion, just asking for proof of claims made by someone saying Paris has more investment, he started it.
If he hadn't of made the claim, I wouldn't be in here.


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Originally Posted by Clery View Post
So you want to know about big billion euros projects in Paris? Here are those I can think of:
  • Grand Paris Express: 27 bilion euros
  • Lyon-Turin HSR (Paris connexion to Italy): 26 billion euros
  • New line Paris Normandie: 15 billion euros
  • Seine-Arche: 5 billion euros
  • Canal Seine Nord: 4.3 billion euros
  • RER E westbound: 4 billion euros
  • Aerotropolis: 3 billion euros
  • CDG Service developments: 3 billion euros
  • Batignolles developments: 2.7 billion euros
  • CDG Terminal 4: 2.4 billion euros
  • EuropaCity: 2 billion euros
  • Hermitage Plaza: 2 billion euros
  • Forum des Halles: 1 billion euros
  • Tour Phare: 1 billion euros

Happy now?
Thank you, wasn't too difficult was it...perhaps if Brisavoine had bothered to do this instead of going off on one of his Paris vs london rants, this could have ended much sooner.
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