daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > City/Metro Compilations

City/Metro Compilations Help report active highrise/urban developments occurring in your city to the global SSC community.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 2nd, 2006, 05:03 PM   #81
jef
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brussels/London
Posts: 3,348
Likes (Received): 5

[QUOTE=brisavoine Unlike in London or other cities, it's not private investors who build skyscrapers in La Défense, it's the La Défense Authority (a state entity) who build them (private building compannies selected by La Défense Authority do the actual building), and then the Authority rent the skyscrapers or sell them (correct me if I'm wrong). Also there's no requirement for pre-let.[/QUOTE]

Let me then correct you as you have kindly suggested. The tenants at LD are essentially large french corporates and financial institutions - not the State. LDA will only build these proposed skyscrapers if there are large tenants prepared to take space in them - if the proposed towers are well matched to occupier needs and if market conditions are right. On the supply side, issues related to the financing of the development and returns are also potential blocking factors. This process is not an easy ride. Nowhere.
jef no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 2nd, 2006, 06:43 PM   #82
BMXican
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 559
Likes (Received): 5

T1 is beautiful.
BMXican no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2006, 09:05 PM   #83
brisavoine
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desconocida
Posts: 18,053
Likes (Received): 2346

Quote:
Originally Posted by jef
The tenants at LD are essentially large french corporates and financial institutions - not the State.
Where did I say tenants were the State? I never said that. I said the La Défense Authority is a state entity, that's totally different. Don't twist my words.

In France, economic realities matter, but at the end of the day big decisions are always political decisions. It's not criticism, it's just observation, and sometimes it produces great things (e.g. Airbus would never have existed was it not for political decisions disconnected from the economy made by the French government in the 1950s and 1960s). In the case of La Défense, the equation is very simple: Nicolas Sarkozy, leader of the UMP ruling party and main contender for the 2007 presidential election, also happens to be president of the La Défense Authority and president of the Hauts-de-Seine département council in which La Défense is located.

Nicolas Sarkozy made it clear last December that he wanted a 400 meter skyscraper in La Défense, so there will be a 400 m skyscraper. Even if he loses the presidential election , he will remain president of Hauts-de-Seine, so in effect he will continue to control La Défense, and you can bet that in the event he would lose the presidential election he will be so disapointed that he will do his best to make La Défense a showcase of what he could have done as president of France. The only way I can think these skyscrapers wouldn't be built is if the next socialist president has a law passed in parliament to specifically forbid the building of new skyscrapers in La Défense, but I can't see that happening.

Last but not least, although at the end of the day investors demands are irrelevant in the political decision to build these skyscrapers, in this particular case there happen to be many international investors who are interested in building the skyscrapers. According to "Emerging Trends in Real Estate Europe 2006" published by the ULI (Urban Land Institute), Paris is considered by world investors as the most attractive real estate market in Europe, ahead of London for the second year in a row. Full report can be seen here:
http://www.uli.org/AM/Template.cfm?S...entDisplay.cfm. The Executive Officer of La Défense Authority said he has already many investors interested in building the skyscrapers that have been announced, so it's a rare case where politics meet economics.

Last edited by brisavoine; April 2nd, 2006 at 09:12 PM.
brisavoine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2006, 09:16 PM   #84
brisavoine
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desconocida
Posts: 18,053
Likes (Received): 2346

By the way, note that the construction of the Empire State Building in New York in the 1930s was also purely political and totally disconnected from the economy. The country was in the Big Depression and there was no need for a tall skyscraper. Actually the ESB remained largely empty for many years after its completion. But governor Roosevelt (later president Roosevelt) wanted a- to put people back to work and have a fantastic project like the ESB end the gloom in NY and in the nation, and b- he wanted to appear as a strong leader capable of achieving incredible things in the perspective of the 1932 presidential election, which he indeed won. I see a lot of similarities with the current situation in France.
brisavoine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2006, 10:03 PM   #85
brisavoine
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desconocida
Posts: 18,053
Likes (Received): 2346

And for those who still don't believe me, here is what La Défense Authority write on their website (I'm translating from French):

"In the beginning of 2005, the Minister of Public Works sent a letter to la Défense Authority asking us to design a project for the rebound of La Défense in the coming 15 years.

The answer of Bernard Bled, Executive Officer of La Defense Authority, was presented to the board of the Authority on December 2, 2005. The president of La Défense Authority, Nicolas Sarkozy, stressed the importance he attached to the rebound of La Défense. Nicolas Sarkozy also announced that the Hauts-de-Seine département council would finance 50% of La Défense Authority's deficit, while the remaining 50% would be financed by the municipalities of Courbevoie and Puteaux.

The proposals of La Défense Authority for the coming 15 years are based on a very ambitious plan for rebound whose objective is first to maintain and then also to improve the position of La Défense in the international competition.

The key points of the project are:
- building 850,000 m² (9.15 million sq. feet) of office space, 500,000 (5.4 million) of which will be in new buildings built on lots made available by the transformation of the southern circular boulevard, and 350,000 (3.75 million) of which will be in reconstructed buildings
- an outstanding architectural statement: one 400 m (1,300 ft) skyscraper, for which there will be an international architectural competition open to architects of the entire world
- the renovation, refurbishment, or demolition of the oldest towers in La Défense
- the refurbishment of dwellings in disrepair
- 100 000 m² (1.1 million sq. ft) of new dwellings
- the improvement of public transportation by extending Paris RER line E to La Défense, which La Défense Authority could finance in a large measure

Approval from the State is due by the middle of 2006."
brisavoine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 3rd, 2006, 01:34 AM   #86
Phil
For great justice
 
Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,383
Likes (Received): 0

hmmm... "it's a rare case where politics meet economics.", it's actually the opposite, several projects were cancelled because of economics (tour sans Fins, tour zherfuss, second tour fiat...), I can't think of any project in La Défense that was built "just to look good and to please someone" besides la Grande Arche, and le CNIT, but the CNIT was not intended to be an office building.
Every extension of La Défense was allowed in good economic conditions.
Same in this case, why will La Défense be extended ? Because of the economics, and thanks to political will to allow more construction.
Phil no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2006, 09:32 PM   #87
HD
°°°°°°°°°°°°
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,596
Likes (Received): 906

so..who will be building the supertalls at la defense? private investors or the la defense authority?
HD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2006, 05:16 AM   #88
Brice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,642
Likes (Received): 167

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekky II
C'est sur le long terme qu'il faut voir Manuel, les réserves de pétrole du Royaume-Uni apparemment arrivent à la fin, et comme on dit "on a pas de pétrole, mais on a des idées". Parcontre il est temps d'engrosser une femme pour faire augmenter la population française manuel, car dans le futur, cela remettra les pendules a l'heure (etant donné que la démographie française a jamais suivie celle d'europe) avec l'angleterre et l'allemagne Sur ceux, je te souhaite de continuer tes doux reves feminins et économico-organismiques
lol excellent
Brice no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2006, 06:01 AM   #89
Thorstein
Registered User
 
Thorstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dijon
Posts: 311
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD
so..who will be building the supertalls at la defense? private investors or the la defense authority?
Surely Jacques Chirac himself, after 2007. He'll have time for that.
Thorstein no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2006, 09:14 AM   #90
Mosaic
BANGKOK
 
Mosaic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 13,302
Likes (Received): 755

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorstein
PARIS: Projects under construction

Both are in La Défense
Both are 180 meters


Here you have a picture of T1:



For the moment, it's like this



Here you have a picture of Tour Granite ("Société Générale" 3)



For the moment, it's like that

excellent design, really impressive.
Mosaic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2006, 01:43 PM   #91
brisavoine
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desconocida
Posts: 18,053
Likes (Received): 2346

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD
so..who will be building the supertalls at la defense? private investors or the la defense authority?
After a bit more research, I think it will be private investors who will be building most towers. Many investors have already told La Défense Authority that they were interested. However, it may be different for the 400 meter supertall. This is no ordinary tower (high costs, higher risks for return on investment), and here maybe it could be a private/public partnership who would be the developper, as was the case in the 1970s for the building of the Tour Montparnasse, the current tallest skyscraper of Paris. We'll know more as events unfold.
brisavoine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2006, 11:06 PM   #92
Skyman
LA Resident
 
Skyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA UNITED STATES
Posts: 5,338
Likes (Received): 1376

I like this original futuristic shape and I think this complex will be entered to the city business centre as well
Skyman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2006, 12:37 AM   #93
JP
Registered User
 
JP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Paris
Posts: 6,453
Likes (Received): 14

trois autres projets:


Tour Mozart - Issy - Arquitectonica - approuvée


Pont d'Issy - Issy- Gautrand - proposées


Coté Seine (réhabilitation) - Paris - Valode et Pistre - travaux en cours

Last edited by JP; April 13th, 2006 at 07:05 PM.
JP no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2006, 01:47 AM   #94
Phobos
Registered User
 
Phobos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Porto
Posts: 9,408

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril
Air Tower Project:


  • Status: proposed
  • Height: circa 35 floors / 140m / 46000 m²
I like the shape os this tower a lot.I hope it gets built
__________________
www.deforma.wordpress.com
Phobos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2006, 02:59 AM   #95
brisavoine
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desconocida
Posts: 18,053
Likes (Received): 2346

The exact height of the renovated Axa Tower has been officially announced. Exact roof height will be 225.11 meters (738.55 feet). There will be an antenna on top of the roof, whose exact dimensions are unknown yet (anywhere beteen 30 and 60 meters / 100 and 200 ft). The current Axa Tower is 159 meters (522 feet) tall at roof height, so the renovation means a 66 meters (217 feet) increase in height.
brisavoine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2006, 03:00 AM   #96
3tmk
Rusty Robot
 
3tmk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Floor 7½
Posts: 10,715

So, is there anything new happening in Issy-les-Moulineaux?
__________________
3tmk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2006, 03:41 AM   #97
Metropolitan
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,362
Likes (Received): 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tmk
So, is there anything new happening in Issy-les-Moulineaux?
There's a rumor about two 180 meter tall towers planned for 2008 in Issy-les-Moulineaux.

They should be built nearby the Pont d'Issy, right at the location of Gautrand proposal in JP's post. This would mean that Gautrand's buildings wouldn't be built... which isn't that bad if you'd ask me as I wasn't seduced by that project which looked very "70's" to me.

To be continued.
Metropolitan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2006, 03:09 PM   #98
Electron
Who cares ?
 
Electron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London W14
Posts: 398
Likes (Received): 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
I agree with bnmaddict, of course it's private investors who build skyscrapers. The EPAD just sells the right to build in the area, which is totally different. It basically decides how big the buildings can be.

As for the pre-let requirements, I think it depends, wasn't EDF pre-let ? it's up to the investor i think.
Exactly, CBX was purely speculative, they found a tenant (Dexia) 3 months before completion.
__________________
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow,
Learn as if you were to live forever."
Gandhi
Electron no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2006, 04:20 PM   #99
KB
Moderator
 
KB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,824
Likes (Received): 6797

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorstein
Surely Jacques Chirac himself, after 2007. He'll have time for that.
LOL

I bet Tony Blair wont be busy either... So it will come down to who's a better builder....Chirac or Blair?

Unfortunately, Chirac will be too old to build one and Blair wont get a nod from Uncle Sam( Bush).


So i guess, it will be the private sector that will be doing all the contruction work(both in london and paris)...
KB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2006, 04:25 PM   #100
KB
Moderator
 
KB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,824
Likes (Received): 6797

BTW, its lovely to see more european cities building skyscrapers...

I love the fact that they have conserved the heritage of paris and are building all the tall ones in La defense... I wish tour Montparnasse was in La defense too.
KB no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
construction, la défense, les halles, paris, paris skyscrapers, philharmonie, projects

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu