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Old June 8th, 2007, 11:03 AM   #1021
Minato ku
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A general view of the "Grand Moulin de Pantin"
This part don't really look Paris.

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Old June 8th, 2007, 09:02 PM   #1022
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great great city
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Old June 9th, 2007, 07:22 AM   #1023
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Campus de Montrouge

Renovation of an old industrial site into an office complex in Montrouge southern inner suburbs
Map of Paris and its inner suburbs

67,000m² of office. (720,000 sq. ft)






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Old June 9th, 2007, 07:47 AM   #1024
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Arborial

An other renovation of an old industrial site into Agricultural offices of the Ministry of Agriculture in Montreuil eastern inner suburbs :


33,278 m² of offices (358,000 sq. ft)









In bonus
a great contrast in Montreuil.


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Other information

Grand Moulin de Pantin : 46,500 m² of office (500,500 sq. ft)
See the post 1004
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Old June 9th, 2007, 08:21 AM   #1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Businessimmo
OFFICE: THE SPECULATIVE SEASON HAS BEGUN
Tuesday 5th June 2007

“Investors have crossed the line. Speculative investment doesn’t scare them,” notes Atisreal in its latest economic outlook report on the investment market in France. The consultancy underlines that only €1.6 billion were invested in new products in first quarter 2007, €1B of which were speculative projects. There were thus 23 office projects acquired before even finding a buyer. Investors’ primary motivation lies in the differential of return rates. According to Atisreal, analyzing sales of new products reveals a differential of 160 base points between the average rate of offices launched speculatively
(7.20%) and that of new offices rented (5.60%). “It is also a way to build holdings that are perennial and in accordance with international standards,” adds the consultancy.
That not withstanding, this practice is
not without risk. The sheep-like characteristic of the market creates a growing appetite for speculative products that results in a reduction of the return differential with secure products. So much that the drop in rates for speculative buildings integrates the future performances of assets targeted. Thus, the investors all anticipate a rise in rental values and a higher indexation of rent. This confidence can be explained by the current situation of the rental market in Paris. “We are observing that many leases signed six years ago show current rents higher than those for new products offered by the market. It is a situation that mechanically results
from the indexation of these rents by the cost of construction index.” The facts are explanatory. The average rent for an office in the central business district leased in 2001 for €700/m²/year today comes out to €850/m²/year simply due to indexing. In the same sector, a new operation markets for €650/m²/year. Imagine the potential for creating value.
Nonetheless, Atisreal is playing it safe, warning that the current attitude of investors “comes from speculative behavior and thus presents a risk.” The consultancy argues, “Certain emerging markets in urban renovation can breed high expectations but also serious disappointment depending on the changes in the cycle of the markets. More than ever, you have to be in the right place, at the right time.” The ABCs of property investment.
http://www.businessimmo.info/pages/l...=070606N173_en
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Last edited by Minato ku; June 9th, 2007 at 08:51 AM.
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Old June 11th, 2007, 03:15 AM   #1026
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Grand Moulin.

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Old June 12th, 2007, 12:42 AM   #1027
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As the Axa tower which is currently reflited (159m => 230m) , the nearby GAN tower (soon sold) would undergo the same way .
GAN Tower , currently 180m , would be 300m . Fantastic evolution .
It's just a rumour now .



The other fact is that the project of an 4 stars hotel next to gan has been cancelled (need confirmation) , and would be integrated in the Gan 300m version .

Amazing .
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Old June 12th, 2007, 03:48 AM   #1028
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Well, it's the second time we hear that rumour of a heightening renovation of Gan. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that the tower owners would like better to heighten that one rather than building another one from scratch.

Anyway, if by any chance this rumour turns out right, that would make of Gan the 4th 300 meter-tall tower in La Défense. Apparently, no one in the public authorities want a skyscraper taller than the Eiffel Tower. What we have to fear is that after a "flat" skyline with 5 towers at 180 meters, La Défense becomes another "flat" skyline with 4 towers of 300 meters. La Défense badly needs a single dominating skyscraper, that's the only way to bring more harmony in a skyline.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 09:36 AM   #1029
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It won't be flat with 300 meters buildings, considering the height of the surrounding buildings. See Singapore, do you really think it's flat ?

As for building friom scratch, I think it's much more expensive, and the higher a building is, the more expensive it is to destroy it. So I doubt they'll destroy Gan, but well, you never know....
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Old June 12th, 2007, 02:39 PM   #1030
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In Singapore no tower reaches 300 meters. The tallest towers there have a height of only 280 meters.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 03:19 PM   #1031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
Anyway, if by any chance this rumour turns out right, that would make of Gan the 4th 300 meter-tall tower in La Défense. Apparently, no one in the public authorities want a skyscraper taller than the Eiffel Tower. What we have to fear is that after a "flat" skyline with 5 towers at 180 meters, La Défense becomes another "flat" skyline with 4 towers of 300 meters. La Défense badly needs a single dominating skyscraper, that's the only way to bring more harmony in a skyline.
That's exactly what I was thinking too. A new flat skyline at 300 meters this time. But then, as Phil already pointed out, it won't necesarily be flat. Generali Tower certainly won't be flat, and I bet the tour Signal and the heightened Gan Tower won't be flat either, considering the current "fashion" at La Défense.

Also, I'm quite confident that the 400 meters tower to the left of the Grande Arche will go ahead after the results of the recent French elections. Then you'll have your single dominating skyscraper.

Here are official renderings from La Défense Authority (EPAD) showing the location of this 400 m tower (the blue shapes were added by EPAD to show the location of the future towers):







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Old June 12th, 2007, 05:47 PM   #1032
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Isn't that 400m tower dead anyway?
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Old June 12th, 2007, 06:14 PM   #1033
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Nope
  • In the end of 2005 the la Defense 2015 project is revealed, a 400m tower is rumored
  • At the beginning of 2006 we believed that Tour Signal or Tour Phare was the 400 meter towers.
  • After we believed that it will be a 400 m and 300m towers In november 2006 we knew Generalli and Phare. We believe that Phare and Signal was the same tower
  • In febrary 2007, a rumor said that Signal and Phare tower is not one but two towers
  • In march 2007, we learned that from the start of Defense 2015 project, Signal and Phare was two 300m separated tower and at this time (In end of 2005) a 400m tower was envisaged with these two towers.
  • After we saw that all the revelated towers corresponded at the blue shapes.

Now the 400 meter tower is just a rumor. but it is maybe true
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Old June 12th, 2007, 06:23 PM   #1034
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In Revue Urbanism magazine #354 (May-June 2007) I came across an article in which a EPAD engineer was interviewed. He stated that the tallest towers cannot exceed 325m NGF, which means 300m. The reason given is that there is a flight corridor above la Défense. But is it the official reason? But since there is a mini feud between Paris City council and La Défense organization, I don't think that EPAD would be as kind as not to build something taller than the Eiffel Tower.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 07:31 PM   #1035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
It won't be flat with 300 meters buildings, considering the height of the surrounding buildings. See Singapore, do you really think it's flat ?
You're right. Generali will have a spire and so would most likely a heightening of Gan reaching 300 meters. If the 300 meters are reached with spires, it's true it won't look flat at all (compared to the current "flat" skyline made of flat roofs). Anyway, I was doing my spoiled chil. It feels so good to complain about having too many 300 meter-towers.



Quote:
As for building friom scratch, I think it's much more expensive, and the higher a building is, the more expensive it is to destroy it. So I doubt they'll destroy Gan, but well, you never know....
Actually, I was thinking about rebuilding another tower on another location from scratch and keeping Gan as it is.

However, obviously the EPAD development project promotes the renovation of towers that are the age of Gan, hence it's not so silly that the owners of that building think about a renovation/heightening.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 07:35 PM   #1036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Also, I'm quite confident that the 400 meters tower to the left of the Grande Arche will go ahead after the results of the recent French elections. Then you'll have your single dominating skyscraper.
According to the news I have (which have to be confirmed), the contest that will be launched this month for the Tour Signal is more for a tower of 350 meters than of 400 meters. It's true the person who told me this isn't a 100% reliable source, but that's still what I heard.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 08:00 PM   #1037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
I came across an article in which a EPAD engineer was interviewed. He stated that the tallest towers cannot exceed 325m NGF, which means 300m. The reason given is that there is a flight corridor above la Défense.
Explain to people that NGF is a measurement from the sea-level, otherwise most people here won't understand you. E.g.: the height of the Eiffel Tower is 358.5 m NGF, but the actual height from street level is only 325 m (the height of the Eiffel Tower listed everywhere), because at the base of the Eiffel Tower the street level is 33.5 meters above sea-level.

Now, I'm sorry to tell you but your source is wrong. The height of Generali Tower will be 350 m NGF (as per the architect's plans), meaning 318 m from street level, so you see the Generali Tower is breaking your supposed 325 m NGF ceiling.

In fact there has never been a cap on height in La Défense (except when president Giscard d'Estaing banned tall buildings in the 1970s). I think this has been explained many times on the French forum.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 08:08 PM   #1038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
According to the news I have (which have to be confirmed), the contest that will be launched this month for the Tour Signal is more for a tower of 350 meters than of 400 meters.
I'm not sure why you're saying this. Nobody said the height of the tour Signal would be 400 meters. I and others have always consistently said that tour Signal would be around 300 meters from street level (reread message #961), which means 350 m NGF. The person who gave you the information probably meant 350 m NGF and not 350 m from street level.

Let's recap because there's lots of misunderstanding it seems.

So far we have:
- Generali Tower: 318m from street level
- tour Phare (Thom Mayne): ca. 300m from street level
- tour Signal: ca. 300m from street level
- New Gan Tower: perhaps also 300m from street level
- and then, there's the 400m tower (400m from street level) which is completely another tower (check the renderings above again). This 400m tower is not sure yet, but it has always appeared on the renderings, distinct from Phare, Signal, and Generali.

All clear now?
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Old June 12th, 2007, 08:25 PM   #1039
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Ah ok Brisavoine. So you meant the former Tour Totem that could be resurrected for the 2nd phase of the development project. Okay, sorry about this.

Well, the person who told me about the height of Tour Signal is Joelle Ceccaldi-Raynaud, the mayor of Puteaux. She told me the tower won't be taller than Eiffel Tower and reach 350 meters. So yes, obviously this is an NGF height since the Eiffel Tower isn't that tall.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #1040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
So you meant the former Tour Totem that could be resurrected for the 2nd phase of the development project.
Uh? What the heck are you talking about??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
Well, the person who told me about the height of Tour Signal is Joelle Ceccaldi-Raynaud, the mayor of Puteaux. She told me the tower won't be taller than Eiffel Tower and reach 350 meters. So yes, obviously this is an NGF height since the Eiffel Tower isn't that tall.
All people interested in Paris skyscrapers already knew that. Ms Ceccaldi-Raynaud is just stating the obvious.

I didn't know that you were a friend of the crazy Ceccaldis, Metropolitan. I'm worrying about you...
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