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Old October 29th, 2007, 11:29 PM   #1401
Minato ku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP View Post
si demain les monuments historiques décident de dire que Generali défigure les vues depuis le temple de l'Amour à Neuilly et empechent le projet de se réaliser, je m'amuserai de ce projet si 'approuvé'.
Oui ce n'est qu'à la délivrance du permis qu'on aura une hauteur fixe, un design fixe, que tout sera sur (sauf si le commanditaire revoit ses plans, mais là lui seul peut changer la donne et personne d'autres).
Ca ne change rien, Lumiere a Lyon avait un permit de construire et ca n'a pas empecher le tour d'en face de deposer un requete qui a annuler la tour.
Pour Apogee qui avait aussi le permit de construire, Giscard a trouver cela moche et a annuler la tour.
Pour la tour Sans Fin c'est different, car du un contexte economique.
Le permit de construire n'empeche meme pas un changement de taille ou de design.

La tour Sharp a Londres est approuve depuis longtemp meme si le permit de construire est tres recent.

Sorry for the french.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 12:13 AM   #1402
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Minato, le propos n'est pas dire "elle est approuvée = elle se fait à 100%"
Le propos est de dire que "approuvée" = autorisée, validée, qu'elle peut légalement se construire, qu'on attend le démarrage du chantier. Aucun projet du plan de relance n'a de permis accroché.
Pour Lumière je serais étonné qu'après un permis accordé celui-ci puisse être remise en cause.
Pour Apogée, je ne sais pas si le permis a été donné. Giscard n'a pas pu empecher les projets dont le permis avait été accordés. Je pense aux tours du Front de Seine réalisées après 1974, ou aux tour de Flandres.
Giscard n'a même pas pu raboter les tours de la Défense. Apogée n'a pas pu avoir son permis, la tour a été proposée et rejetée.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 12:16 AM   #1403
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Well, Phare, Air² and Generali doesn't have any construction permit yet, but that's predominantly becase they are all three still in schematic design and thus their detailed final plans aren't known yet.

Now this being said, these towers are all funded by investors ready to start construction tomorrow if needed. The local authority, the Epad, has allowed the principle of their construction in the areas where they should be built, and in their current design. Furthermore, investors didn't put any conditions regarding pre-lets or pre-acquisition before starting to fund their construction.

As such, they aren't mere proposals. The only last required step before starting their construction is only to finalize their technical details, but there are minimal chances that once this will be done, any administrative body will all of a sudden put their veto and reject them.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 12:17 AM   #1404
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Extrait de le Monde du 30 octobre 2007 (en marge de l'article sur les Totems de Delanoë) :

"Alors que Georges Pompidou milite encore en 1972, dans un entretien au Monde, pour de
« belles » tours dans la capitale, VGE, à peine élu président, « demande symboliquement l’arrêt de la tour Apogée » dans le secteur de la porte d’Italie (13e)."

=> en effet, ça a dû se faire avant le permis de construire.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #1405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP View Post
Pour Apogée, je ne sais pas si le permis a été donné. Giscard n'a pas pu empecher les projets dont le permis avait été accordés. Je pense aux tours du Front de Seine réalisées après 1974, ou aux tour de Flandres.
Giscard n'a même pas pu raboter les tours de la Défense. Apogée n'a pas pu avoir son permis, la tour a été proposée et rejetée.
Valéry Giscard d'Estaing has decided to stop the Italie 13 project specifically, not construction of towers in general. As far as I know, Beaugrenelle and La Défense weren't involved in the President's decisions. It wasn't only about towers by the way, the esplanade which was planned to be built above Avenue d'Italie has also been cancelled.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 02:22 AM   #1406
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Generali ne faisait pas parti du plan de relance initialement.
Les tours du XIII ont été arrété après la symbolique décision présidentielle qui offrait là un beau prétexte au désangagement des promoteurs dans des opérations qu'ils ne savaient plus vendre.

Sinon je maintiens elles sont proposées (ce qui sous entends réalisable)
Les actuels projets aux portes de Paris sont de l'ordre des visions.
Et j'aimerai savoir pourquoi il faut absolument minimiser l'administratif puisque beaucoup se joue à ce moment là (en ce qui concerne les opposants)
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Old October 30th, 2007, 02:40 AM   #1407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
these towers are all funded by investors ready to start construction tomorrow if needed. The local authority, the Epad, has allowed the principle of their construction in the areas where they should be built, and in their current design. Furthermore, investors didn't put any conditions regarding pre-lets or pre-acquisition before starting to fund their construction.

As such, they aren't mere proposals. The only last required step before starting their construction is only to finalize their technical details, but there are minimal chances that once this will be done, any administrative body will all of a sudden put their veto and reject them.
Exactly, and that's precisely why we can say that these towers have been approved. Unfortunately JP has decided to be confrontional about this just for the sake of it it seems. It reminds me of these people bitterly arguing over trifles such as when exactly was the French Third Republic founded. Is it in September 1870 when the Republic was proclaimed at the Paris City Hall by Gambetta, or is it in 1875 when the Republican Laws were passed by the National Assembly? I would consider the Third Republic founded in 1870 because that's when, de facto, the Second Empire ended, but JP would bitterly object this, call me a lier as he's done in his previous post, and argue that this is only in 1875 that we can consider the 3rd Republic founded, bla bla bla. Passionnant n'est-il pas ?
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Old October 30th, 2007, 02:58 AM   #1408
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Je n'ai pas dit que tu étais un menteur. J'ai dit qu'il n'y avait pas à mentir sur le status d'un projet. Tu déformes mes propos comme tu déformes la réalité de l'avancement de chaque projet. cqfd tu lis ce que tu veux lire.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 03:11 AM   #1409
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One of the approuved proposal for a vision in the north of Paris, in Porte de la Chapelle in the 18th arrondissement by Brenac & Gonzalez.

image hosted on flickr
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Old October 30th, 2007, 03:18 AM   #1410
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Actually it is more like a vision, I would not said that this project is proposed.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 03:41 AM   #1411
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c'est de l'humour !!
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Old October 30th, 2007, 04:26 AM   #1412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP View Post
Je n'ai pas dit que tu étais un menteur. J'ai dit qu'il n'y avait pas à mentir sur le status d'un projet. Tu déformes mes propos comme tu déformes la réalité de l'avancement de chaque projet. cqfd tu lis ce que tu veux lire.
Hm... ça me rappelle Jean-Marie Le Pen quand il se défend d'avoir tenu des propos outrageants envers des personnalités politiques ou médiatiques. Lui tenir des propos offensants ? Mais pas du tout, ce sont les autres qui déforment ses propos voyons. Enfin bref, incident clos, les gens sont suffisamment grands pour se faire leur opinion par eux-mêmes.
Quote:
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c'est de l'humour !!
Yeah, JP is being sarcastic now. The rendering he's posted above is just one of several proposals that were submitted to the Paris City Hall for the inner city of Paris. None has been approved by City Hall, and most likely none will be approved until the municipal elections in March next year. We should have renderings for the other proposals in November.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 11:34 AM   #1413
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JP always be sarcastic.

An other proposed tower for inner Paris

131m
Architect : Dominique Perrault
image hosted on flickr


I don't know where it is maybe in the 18th arrondissement.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 12:44 PM   #1414
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Those pictures are VISIONS. It is the result of several workshop.
Those towers won't be built!
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Old October 30th, 2007, 01:07 PM   #1415
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It is between the vison and the proposal.
We don't really know if all of them won't be built.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 01:10 PM   #1416
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seems like these architects really want towers to be banned from Paris forever!!
They should have consulted foreign architects instead
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Old October 30th, 2007, 01:21 PM   #1417
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@Minato
Those pictures are the result of a reflexion required by the city hall to make evolve the position of the parisians. This is the goal of those "projects".
There is for now any developers behind those visions.
If mindsets are changing, maybe we could have some highrises in those places. Do not go to fast. They can't be proposed because they can't be built.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 04:41 PM   #1418
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This story cracked me up. Typical old-fashioned Parisian elites. Thanks God these people are slowly disappearing.
Quote:
Thinkers say move is beyond reason
Adam Sage in Paris

The Times
October 29, 2007

A row has split radical chic Parisian intellectuals over the relocation of their college from the affluent Left Bank to an impoverished, multiethnic suburb where they fear being deprived of bistros and boutiques.

Some of France’s most eminent academics are campaigning to stop the elite College of Higher Studies in Social Sciences (EHESS) from moving to Aubervilliers in the Seine-Saint-Denis département north of the capital. But the move’s backers say that the real concern of the intelligentsia is to remain within walking distance of cafés in Saint Germain des Prés and shops selling Prada clothes, Ferragamo shoes, wholemeal bread and smoked salmon.

The row arose after the college announced it would leave Boulevard Raspail in the well-heeled 6th district for an American-style campus – nicknamed Berkeley-on-Seine – in what is an industrial estate in Aubervilliers. The move was brought forward from 2012 after the Raspail building became unsafe because of asbestos.

The academics said a delegation had visited the new site in Aubervilliers and was “appalled”. “No inhabitants. No green spaces. Practically no trees. No businesses. No cafés. No restaurants,” they said in a blog.

Philosophers, historians, economists and sociologists have lined up to denounce the suburb as a cultural desert, far removed from the Parisian café society they have known since the days of Jean-Paul Sartre. They say Seine-Saint-Denis – infamous as the centre of the 2005 race riots in France and known from its registration number, 93, as le Neuf-Trois – is a “zone lacking all the necessary tools for intellectual work”.

They claim the EHESS has fallen victim to a Machiavellian plot hatched by President Sarkozy’s centre-right Government in an attempt to dismantle an antiEstablishment bastion. The college is famed for producing some of France’s greatest left-wing thinkers, such as Pierre Bourdieu, the sociologist, and for its role in the May 1968 student protests in Paris.

Some lecturers have poured scorn on the campaign. Francis Chateau-raynaud, director of the Pragmatic and Reflective Sociology Group, said: “The well-to-do people of the 6th district don’t want to move their bums and they are scared of le 93.”

Supporters of the relocation say that it could help to bridge the gulf separating Paris’s white and wealthy city centre from a periphery marked by immigration, unemployment and violence. Catherine Sautter, a member of the college administration, said: “Maybe our intellectuals are not that intelligent at the end of the day.”

6th district

— Hélène Darroze’s Michelin-starred restaurant Tour d’Argent
— Historic literary brasserie Café le Procope
— Café de Flore, intelligentsia’s favourite postwar haunt
— Les Deux Magots, Jean-Paul Sartre’s café
— Agnès b designer clothes

Aubervilliers

— Kentucky Fried Chicken
— Délice Pizza
— Class’croûte, takeaway meals
— Lauryll Afro-Européenne hairdresser
— Mechakou Abdelaziz café
— Modern Hotel
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Old October 31st, 2007, 09:15 AM   #1419
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This is hilarous, but so typical of the French left wing!
I realy hope this school is going to move to the 93, it would be the beginning of a Marshall plan for suburbs.
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Old October 31st, 2007, 10:30 AM   #1420
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They will eventually be in position to verify Bourdieu's theories
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