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Old November 24th, 2007, 06:30 PM   #1501
brisavoine
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Well I just checked the blog mentioned in the AFP report, and I am amazed to find there an opinion column published in Le Figaro and written by scholars from some of the most famous US universities such as Stanford and Princeton. These foreign scholars basically argue that moving these two human science schools from the Left Bank to Aubervilliers means moving them out of Paris, which will decrease their international reputation and make them less attractive. Supposedly foreign students and scholars will stop visiting these two schools now that they are moving "out of Paris".

This is complete bulshit. These people apparently know very little about Paris geography. Aubervilliers is barely 5 km (3 miles) from the Left Bank, and only a few hundred yards from the administrative border of the City of Paris proper. Moving these schools from the Left Bank to Aubervilliers is a bit like moving a New York school from Washington Square to Harlem, same distance, same social gap. I fear there's lots of deep-rooted unconscious racism at play here. Aubervilliers has a population density as high as the densest central districts of London and Berlin, and yet if you read what they write you'd think it must be some sort of wasteland far away from Paris. Administrative divisions aside, Aubervilliers is part of Paris central core, and it has just slightly more immigrants than the 19th and 18th arrondissements which border it to the south. Besides, if foreign students and scholars want to experience living in the heart of central Paris, they can still do so, they don't have to live in Aubervilliers. They'll simply have to take a 20 minutes subway ride to get to the schools, which doesn't take any longer than going from Lower Manhattan to Harlem. These arguments are all absolute nonsense. These people are incapable of envisioning the Paris of the 21st century. They are stuck in the Paris of the 19th century. It's pathetic.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 06:35 PM   #1502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
The hilarious piece of news of the day. (I translated into English for you)


And to think that these people who refuse to mingle with immigrants in the banlieue and prefer the cosy and pampered upper-class Left Bank are the same leftist people who conspicuously criticize Sarkozy's immigration policies and earlier took part in the student rebellions of 1968. Hypocrisy and irony at its best.
The bulk of the academic staff at the EHESS lives to the south of Central Paris along the RER B. The reluctance of many people at the EHESS comes mainly from anticipated longer commuting times.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 06:45 PM   #1503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
Announced by Cyril on the French forum :

EPAD has revealed the selected architects/developers for the TOUR SIGNAL in La Defense.

image hosted on flickr


http://www.ladefense.fr/actualites.p...889#secondnews
Ooh Hadid! A 300m Hadid tower should be VERY interesting. She has some great designs, shame her UK ones tend to get watered down due to budget...

Good for Paris. I wish London would have more architecture competitions for towers. The city is doing fine without them, but they could certainly give Canary Wharf a big boost.

Can't wait, in two weeks today I'll be in Paris for the third time
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Old November 24th, 2007, 06:54 PM   #1504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
The bulk of the academic staff at the EHESS lives to the south of Central Paris along the RER B. The reluctance of many people at the EHESS comes mainly from anticipated longer commuting times.
From Saint-Michel (Left Bank) to Gare du Nord it takes only 6 minutes by RER. Then from Gare du Nord it's a short subway ride to Aubervilliers. If Aubervilliers was an extremely affluent and white community like Neuilly-sur-Seine there wouldn't be all this whining.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 08:16 PM   #1505
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An opinion column in Le Monde by two deputy mayors of Aubervilliers (a community whose town council is Communist):
Citizen-cum-researchers, welcome to Aubervilliers!

An ironic article published in Le Figaro:
Banlieue experts prefer to stay inside central Paris

The southern part of Aubervilliers is a derelict manufacturing area which is undergoing massive regeneration. The brownfields will be turned into business districts, benefiting from their location near the Périphérique motorway. From what I understand, a large university campus is also planned by 2012. This university campus will host these two human science schools as well as several other schools and libraries. Until 2012 the two human science schools will be located in a temporary bland building in the middle of the brownfields without métro (the métro will arrive there in 2012) but with a bus line running to Porte de la Chapelle métro station (1 km away).

Here is a satellite view of the area showing the exact location of the "dreaded" parcel 251.


And here are some photographs of parcel 251 taken by people at the EHESS who went on a dangerous exploration in the distant jungles of the banlieue.




Apparently, these would be the bland buildings temporarily hosting the two schools until 2012.


And these are the streets around parcel 251:








In comparison, boulevard Raspail is Paradise. Lol. This is the EHESS school on boulevard Raspail, during a strike (I don't know which one, there are so many). The banner on top reads "Down with work"! The one below reads "EHESS zone liberated".
image hosted on flickr


Anyway, after looking at it I admit that for the time being parcel 251 in Aubervilliers is a bit unwelcoming, being entirely surrounded by derelict warehouses and factories, far from the métro stations, and away from the actual residential part of Aubervilliers, but then it's just temporary, by 2012 if things go according to plan there could be a large brand new modern campus there, and a large business district all around. The area has a great potential, being just in between the Périphérique and the Stade de France.

Also, for a social science researcher it may actually be enlightening to experience the complicated life of banlieusards (suburbanites) who live far away from the Métro and who share the same kind of derelict environment that these researchers will now experience. Back in the 1920s there was a French social science scholar who spent four years in a Parisian suburban factory (in Levallois-Perret exactly) doing very tiring and dirty blue-collar jobs before writing a book about the social conditions of the working classes. Guys like him back then knew what it take to write about a subject with deep inside knowledge. Our modern social science researchers should follow the example of their great predecessors.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #1506
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Brisavoine you know absolutly nothing about social sciences of today, most sociologists who criticize the policies in the working class districts mostly do qualitative work (as opposed to quantitative work with statistics). And to do qualitative work on the working class, there is no other alternative than to actually go on the ground with the people you study.

From Pierre Bourdieu's "la misere du monde" to Sylvain Acquatias' study of hashish smoker in the 93 in the late 1990's to Loic Wacquant or Laurent Mucchielli they all went on the ground to study.

You are doing what we call a "procès d'intention", you would have never said anything if it was members of an economy department complaining about being relegated to an industrial zone.
And with your petty almost off-topic political rant, you are ruining this thread.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #1507
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Says the guy known all across this forum for his leftist political rant. That's quite funny. Eklips really...

As for qualitative work on site, I sure hope they do, otherwise their publications would have little value. But I can't help noticing that one of the biggest complaints on their blog is that they need to visit the libraries of the Left Bank regularly for their job, which supposedly they wouldn't be able to do if the school was located in Aubervilliers. So I suppose their research is a lot more bookish than you imagine.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 10:00 PM   #1508
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Shall I remember here that this thread is supposed to be about architecture and urban planning in Paris? Other matters such as a political debate about the location of a social science campus have nothing to do in the discussion.
Now let's talk about Tour Signal again.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 10:51 PM   #1509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good View Post
Shall I remember here that this thread is supposed to be about architecture and urban planning in Paris? Other matters such as a political debate about the location of a social science campus have nothing to do in the discussion.
Now let's talk about Tour Signal again.
Good, moving prestigious schools from central Paris to the banlieue is urban planning at its best (or at its worst, depending on the point of view). That's exactly why I mentioned it. The Aubervilliers large regeneration project is also precisely urban planning. And a new campus is planned there for 2012, which means there'll be construction going on, and hopefully renders soon.

I'm all for talking about tour Signal, but La Défense is not the only place where things are going on in Greater Paris.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 10:57 PM   #1510
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Of course, 10% of inner Paris are under in redevelopment, mostly in north east near Saint Denis or Aubervillier.

This area have a great potential.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 11:04 PM   #1511
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What's going on in the 9-3 is indeed very interesting, but I woul prefer to see you looking for renderings, accurate information, websites about the regeneration process, etc. rather than posting irrelevant pictures (such as the one depicting a so-called strike of the EHESS, which was actually an illegal occupation by some stupid anarchists and outlaws with no connection whatsoever with the EHESS, taking advantage of the mess during the anti-CPE demonstrations. Hence the idiotic mottos on the banners. Just for your information).
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Old November 24th, 2007, 11:56 PM   #1512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good View Post
but I woul prefer to see you looking for renderings
If there were renderings of the campus I would have posted them, but there aren't any, not any that I am aware of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good View Post
accurate information
Hm, I showed the exact location of the area on a satellite map, along with pictures of the area as it stands now. This is more accurate information than you will find pretty much anywhere online, including in the French forum. Few people know exactly where in Aubervilliers these two schools are going to be relocated, and it actually took me some time to locate the exact area, mind you.
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Originally Posted by Good View Post
websites about the regeneration process
There for you:
http://www.plainecommune.fr/page/p-70/art_id-/
and here:
http://www.aubervilliers.fr/IMG/pdf/...ervilliers.pdf
and here:
http://www.aubervilliers.fr/IMG/pdf/...anru_landy.pdf
and this project which is the one closest to the now famous parcel 251:
http://www.aubervilliers.fr/IMG/pdf/ftront_pop_1.pdf

As you can see in this last project the Communist town council of Aubervilliers plan to build a "Square of the People's Front", reminiscent of the People's Front of 1936 which saw the allied Communists and Socialists winning the French general elections that year. The renderings look quite nice, and this is how the area surrounding the two aforementioned schools should look like in 2012, complete with a métro station. Not bad overall. No reason to whine so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good View Post
the one depicting a so-called strike of the EHESS, which was actually an illegal occupation by some stupid anarchists and outlaws with no connection whatsoever with the EHESS, taking advantage of the mess during the anti-CPE demonstrations. Hence the idiotic mottos on the banners. Just for your information
That's a good think you've cleared this up. The purpose of the picture, however, was to show the current building on boulevard Raspail to compare with the future buiding in Aubervilliers, not to show the strike, which was a byproduct of this only picture of the boulevard Raspail building that I was able to find.
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Old November 25th, 2007, 04:18 AM   #1513
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Three projects are in this area important at the national scale.

Archives by Fuksas - Pierrefittes


EHESS - SEARCH architect - Aubervilliers


and the olympic swimming pool -Aubervilliers (a promise of Chirac after we lost the olympics of 2012). The project is waiting for money and architects... maybe olympics games too... or at least FINA world championship...
EDIT : Paris would like to host the 2012 european championship. they would like to begin the construction in 2010...

Last edited by JP; November 25th, 2007 at 04:27 AM.
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Old November 25th, 2007, 04:29 AM   #1514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Says the guy known all across this forum for his leftist political rant. That's quite funny. Eklips really...

As for qualitative work on site, I sure hope they do, otherwise their publications would have little value. But I can't help noticing that one of the biggest complaints on their blog is that they need to visit the libraries of the Left Bank regularly for their job, which supposedly they wouldn't be able to do if the school was located in Aubervilliers. So I suppose their research is a lot more bookish than you imagine.
I keep my "rants" out of urban project topics.

And of course you need common access to a library when you research in this field. You can't do a study and not take into account what has been done before on the subject, therefore almost any sociology research, wether qualitative, quantitative or both will imply a lot of studying of previous work.

Back to the topic, JP do you have any official dates for these?
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Old November 25th, 2007, 08:28 PM   #1515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
This is complete bulshit. These people apparently know very little about Paris geography. Aubervilliers is barely 5 km (3 miles) from the Left Bank, and only a few hundred yards from the administrative border of the City of Paris proper. Moving these schools from the Left Bank to Aubervilliers is a bit like moving a New York school from Washington Square to Harlem, same distance, same social gap. I fear there's lots of deep-rooted unconscious racism at play here. Aubervilliers has a population density as high as the densest central districts of London and Berlin, and yet if you read what they write you'd think it must be some sort of wasteland far away from Paris. Administrative divisions aside, Aubervilliers is part of Paris central core, and it has just slightly more immigrants than the 19th and 18th arrondissements which border it to the south. Besides, if foreign students and scholars want to experience living in the heart of central Paris, they can still do so, they don't have to live in Aubervilliers. They'll simply have to take a 20 minutes subway ride to get to the schools, which doesn't take any longer than going from Lower Manhattan to Harlem. These arguments are all absolute nonsense. These people are incapable of envisioning the Paris of the 21st century. They are stuck in the Paris of the 19th century. It's pathetic.
Exactly
They should not build a new RER station in this area ? As I know it was a project for Olympic game.
And the work have subway extention have started.
Eklips it is 2010 for the Archives I don't know for the other.

For these who have a very bad idea of the northern inner suburbs : The center of Saint Denis taken by a Serbian forumer of SCC. Wow the jungle look like at central Paris.
It is the same in Aubervillier but with less people.


_______________________________________________________________

I see that this is Ferrier, the architect for Hermitage, we will see a residencial Hypergreen for the Signal competition.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 02:33 AM   #1516
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Vu sur le forum francophone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP View Post
Nouvelles illuminations des Champs Elysées... plutot bof sur l'image... mouais plutot que des économies d'énergies j'ai plutot l'impression que c'est de l'économie de bouts de chandelles



JP tu te Cyrilises... Lol.

Pour info j'habite juste à côté. En vrai c'est absolument superbe (la photo ne rend rien). Je n'ai jamais vu un éclairage aussi beau de toutes les villes où j'ai vécues. Lundi soir en allant faire mes courses j'avais l'impression que l'avenue n'était plus une avenue mais une cathédrale, comme une voute magique au dessus du trotoir, l'impression de ne plus être en extérieur mais plutôt en intérieur. Etonnante sensation. En plus il y a une petite surprise au niveau de l'éclairage qui n'a pas été dévoilée dans les médias et que je vous laisse découvrir sur place...
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Old November 28th, 2007, 03:00 AM   #1517
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New project in La Défense!!

According to Krapulax from the French forum, it is planned to heighten the Manhattan Tower built in 1975. Apparently 7 floors would be added to this tower, and its height would increase from its current 110m (360 ft) to approx. 150m (500 ft). The tower would remain occupied while the heightening would be going on.

Here is Manhattan Tower as it stands today:






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Old November 28th, 2007, 03:13 AM   #1518
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J'ai dit bof par rapport à l'image
J'irai voir en vrai, tu m'as donné l'eau à la bouche avec ta surprise!
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Old November 28th, 2007, 03:38 AM   #1519
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Tu verras, c'est très Bertrand, très paillette, très boîte de nuit new-yorkaise über branchée. Mais bon, pour une fois je m'en plains pas. C'est plutôt réussi.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 10:48 PM   #1520
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LOL boite de nuit ultra branchée new yorkaise...ça fait longtemps que tu as abandonné le clubbing toi! si un jour tu t'y es adonné!

ces lumières ont l'air très jolies, visiblement, une lumière bleue circule de haut en bas à l'intérieur des cristaux, si j'ai bien compris...
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