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Old January 4th, 2009, 10:11 PM   #1901
kony
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SO WHAT POPULATION figure you came out with for London and Madrid ?
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Old January 4th, 2009, 10:17 PM   #1902
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Sounds about right. Paris and Madrid are much better at providing homes for new families and immigrants... London often has to absorb new population into existing housing stock which is redevloped and carved up into smaller and smaller accomodation (which means it has a large outflow of people not satisfied with housing, lowering growth levels).

What was London's and Madrid's population? I would be interested to see how the three are converging, or whether Paris is pulling away ahead... or what...
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Old January 4th, 2009, 10:42 PM   #1903
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The Paris metropolitan area, in its 1999 borders defined by the French statistical office INSEE, had 11,174,743 inhabitants on March 7, 1999, and it reached 11,769,424 inhabitants on January 1, 2006. Later this year, INSEE will publish the new borders of the Paris metropolitan area (scores of municipalities have been engulfed by the Paris metropolitan area since 1999, but we don't know which ones yet, waiting for INSEE to publish the new borders), so the actual population of the Paris metropolitan as of January 1, 2006 will actually be higher than 11,769,424 within the new borders of the metropolitan area.

For Madrid, the three provinces of Madrid, Guadalajara, and Toledo had a combined population of 5,816,589 on January 1, 1999, and they reached a combined population of 6,742,851 on January 1, 2006.

For the London LUZ, it had a population of 11,577,000 on July 1, 1999, and it reached a population of 12,071,300 on July 1, 2006.

Also, for an idea of the magnitude of population growth in these three European metropolitan areas, you can compare them with the population growth in the three largest US combined statistical areas (the largest version of US metropolitan areas).

in the EU (between 1999 and 2006):
- Madrid (3 provinces): +132,323 people per year
- Paris metro area: +87,207 people per year
- London LUZ: +70,614 people per year

and in the US (between 2000 and 2007):
- Los Angeles CSA: +197,382 people per year
- New York CSA: +85,742 people per year
- Chicago CSA: +61,844 people per year
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Old January 4th, 2009, 11:12 PM   #1904
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thanx 4 those datas...interesting indeed.

Does those paris figure naturally includes part of the inhab. of the big satellites cities (Chartres or orleans among others) who commute every day to Paris ?


I wonder, but i think they are not included.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 11:51 PM   #1905
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Short answer is no. The Paris metropolitan area defined by INSEE which had 11,769,424 inhabitants on January 1, 2006 includes neither Chartres, nor Orléans, nor even Senlis, Compiègne, Creil, Provins, or Dreux. The French metropolitan areas are defined much more conservatively than the US metropolitan areas. That's why the Paris metropolitan area still has room to expand, but I don't think that the new borders of the metropolitan area to be anounced later this year will encompass Chartres or Orléans. You may have to wait for a few decades before Chartres is included within the Paris metropolitan area, given the conservative definition of metropolitan areas by INSEE. And as for Orléans, it will never be part of the Paris metropolitan area with the current definition of French metropolitan areas. The new 2006 borders of the Paris metropolitan area may include Senlis, Provins, and Creil (those are the most likely commuters' satellite cities that INSEE could join to the Paris metropolitan area), but even that is not sure.
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Old January 5th, 2009, 12:03 AM   #1906
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Here is the historical population of the Paris metropolitan area since 1968, in its expanding borders census after census (the figures from before 1990 have been calculated retrospectively by a researcher at INSEE based on pre-1990 census returns):
- 1968 census: 8,368,000 inh. (within 1968 borders of the metro area)
- 1975 census: 9,096,000 inh. (within 1975 borders of the metro area)
- 1982 census: 9,362,000 inh. (within 1982 borders of the metro area)
- 1990 census: 10,291,851 inh. (within 1990 borders of the metro area)
- 1999 census: 11,174,743 inh. (within 1999 borders of the metro area)
- 2006 census: 11,769,424 inh. (within 1999 borders of the metro area; new 2006 borders to be announced later this year)
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Old January 5th, 2009, 12:08 AM   #1907
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Another interesting figure is Paris urban area/agglomeration population.
It reached 10,142,977 inhabitants on January 1, 2006 within 1999 borders, which means it will score some 10,200,000+ inh. within forthcoming 2006 borders.
I know that agglomeration/urban areas population figures aren't much relevant nowadays but Paris is the first urban area (with a big urban city centre - unlike Essen for instance) going beyond 10 millions inhabitants in the E.U.
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Last edited by Cyril; January 5th, 2009 at 02:29 PM.
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Old January 5th, 2009, 07:21 AM   #1908
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on Madrid case, i am kind of surprised to see Toledo included in the metro area...i have been to Toledo, and it's 1 full hour bus drive from Madrid...and you see a lot of countryside land in between...it is as far as Paris as those satellites cities around paris i was mentionning (like Chartres)


sorry for the off-topic.
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Old January 5th, 2009, 10:23 AM   #1909
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The areas of the Toledo province near the border with the Madrid province are those that are part of the Madrid metropolitan area. They have grown a lot in recent years, as the excess of population growth in Madrid province spills over into the Toledo province and the Guadalajara province. The city of Toledo proper is probably not part of the Madrid metropolitan area (at least if we use the French definition of metropolitan areas), but since I don't know where the exact limits of the metropolitan area are located, I had to include the whole province (but the population growth in that province is essentially happening in the areas bordering the Madrid province anyway).
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Old January 9th, 2009, 04:44 AM   #1910
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Hotel Concorde La Fayette is undergoing renovations throughout 2008 and early 2009. Those renovations are going to be completed in June of the latter year.
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Old January 12th, 2009, 06:55 PM   #1911
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An article in USA Today comparing the EU's two largest cities and the recent opposite turns in their high-rise policies.
Quote:
London caps skyscrapers; Paris piles high

By Jeffrey Stinson,
USA Today



In the global race to build glitzy skyscrapers, London and Paris are choosing opposite paths — as usual.

The French capital has decided to allow the construction of tall buildings in some areas for the first time in 30 years. London's new mayor vows to oppose any towers that would overshadow historic landmarks.

The differing strategies reflect a debate occurring not just in these longtime rival cities, but elsewhere in the world: Should cities try to keep up with upstarts such as Dubai or Jeddah, where flashy towers seem to sprout every week? Or should they try to protect their architectural heritage, even at the risk of losing prestige and financial might?

Michael Edwards of the Bartlett School of Architecture at University College London says Paris is entering the "competition craze" among cities to build higher, while London is "less keen" on playing in that contest.

Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoë persuaded the City Council this month to revolutionize the skyline by allowing high-rises in six central areas — though the buildings are limited to two-thirds the height of the cherished 81-story Eiffel Tower.

Until now, Paris has been one of the few world capitals, along with Washington and Rome, to consistently protect its city vistas by imposing strict building height limits and confining skyscrapers to the outskirts.

For many Parisians that was sound policy, reinforced by the 690-foot Montparnasse Tower built in 1972 that both Delanoë and President Nicolas Sarkozy admit is a high-rise blight on Paris' Left Bank.

Delanoë said before the council vote that the Montparnasse shouldn't deter the city from riding the architectural boom of other great cities. He vowed not to "repeat the mistakes of the past."

The change coincides with a plan advocated by Sarkozy to revitalize Paris' La Défense business district with more new skyscrapers outside the western edge of the city.

The centerpiece, announced this spring, will be a 71-story tower designed by noted French architect Jean Nouvel.

The prominence of old capitals such as Paris is being challenged by rapidly developing cities such as Dubai and Shanghai.

Those cities have built architectural marvels in recent years "to transform themselves into the world's new financial and cultural capitals," says Memphis architect Louis Pounders, who will head the American Institute of Architects' committee on design next year.

Recent additions include the world's tallest building — Taipei 101 in Taiwan, which has 101 floors and is 1,670 feet high. It opened last July. That will be dwarfed by the Burj Dubai, a 2,625-foot, or half-mile-high tower, under construction in the United Arab Emirates.

That's nothing compared with what was announced in March by Saudi Arabia: The so-called Mile High Tower in Jeddah will be roughly 5,280 feet, or the equivalent of four Empire State Buildings stacked atop each other.

Architects use new computer and engineering technology to "push the design envelope to further promote this unique world-city image," Pounders says.

London refuses to play along. Its mayor, Boris Johnson, opposes any skyscrapers that would overshadow historic buildings, block vistas, threaten parks or fail to blend into areas of the city.

Instead, he favors building skyscrapers where other high-rises already exist, such as London's Canary Wharf and Docklands in the east end.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...scrapers_N.htm
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Old January 12th, 2009, 07:22 PM   #1912
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I don't understand they say they're talking of Paris' centre (guess it's the municipality) but then talk of Nouvel's Tour Signal in La Défense.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 01:45 AM   #1913
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Nice topic...
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Old February 1st, 2009, 03:20 PM   #1914
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I don´t get that article. Most of the large towers u/c in London are located in the historic centre. The same cannot be said for Paris.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 02:28 AM   #1915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
I don´t get that article. Most of the large towers u/c in London are located in the historic centre. The same cannot be said for Paris.
It depends how you define the "historic centre". In London many towers are in Canary Wharf which is not the historic centre. As for Paris, there are 28 towers taller than 100 meters (328 feet) that are located in the City of Paris proper (the 20 arrondissements).

The "historic centre" of Paris:

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Old February 2nd, 2009, 03:31 PM   #1916
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Yeah but Paris has nothing that can rival the City of London skyline in its historic centre. Furthermore most new skyscrapers planned for Paris are located in La Defense.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 06:59 PM   #1917
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Right, there are no big churches and towers in Central Paris.

(panoramas and captions by Arnaud Frich)






In terms of clusters in the historic centre, this one is taller than the clusters in the historic centres of any other European city except Frankfurt:





And this view was taken is in Central Paris, not in some distant suburbs:

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Old February 2nd, 2009, 07:10 PM   #1918
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Please don't turn this into another London v Paris fight. Thanks.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 07:16 PM   #1919
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Povoa de Varzim is better than both anyway
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 07:45 PM   #1920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjfox View Post
Please don't turn this into another London v Paris fight. Thanks.
Some people always come in this thread and feel obliged to make comparisons with London. So far I have never seen forumers coming here and making comparisons with NYC, Tokyo, or whatnot. Go figure!
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