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Old April 5th, 2007, 11:53 PM   #481
FM 2258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZ-II View Post
why is it now Proposed? i've thought it is already UC
I think the title needs to be changed.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 12:16 AM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gohorns View Post
Do you really think people in Makkah need a clock to look up prayer times?

Because of the way the valley is shaped, in most liklihood if you can see that clock, you'll hear the call to prayer from the Holy Mosque itself. And even if you don't, you'll hear it from some other mosque nearby.
Prayer calls don't really give you that much time to prepare, they usually come just a few minutes before the actual prayer starts. This is more helpful.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #483
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Originally Posted by gothicform View Post
mecca is a historic place BECAUSE its a holy site, its also a historical place because its old. here are some of the holy shrines that the saudi govt is demolishing right NOW

http://www.savethehijaz.org/



Whats your point, these are all regular people houses. Your not supposed to be worshipping anything but god in islam anyways, not even the prophet.

You guys complaining about stuff like a 220 year old castle being demolished. What gave the people 220 years ago anymore right to build at that site than people now. Things ere built back then, to meet the demands of that time, and things are built now for todays demand. Makkah has seen exponential growth in modern times regarding the number of pilgrims. What was perfectly fine to have even 50 years ago isn't feasable any longer. You wentforma situation where a couple of thousands pilgrims come ever year to several million and still increasing fast. Due to the advent of things such as planes, and due to the increase in the general worlds financial well being, more people than ever can attempt the pilgrimage. These are just modern world realities that you have to adapt to. Nobody crosses the sahara on foot anymore to go the hajj.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 12:37 AM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaki View Post
Whats your point, these are all regular people houses. Your not supposed to be worshipping anything but god in islam anyways, not even the prophet.

You guys complaining about stuff like a 220 year old castle being demolished. What gave the people 220 years ago anymore right to build at that site than people now. Things ere built back then, to meet the demands of that time, and things are built now for todays demand. Makkah has seen exponential growth in modern times regarding the number of pilgrims. What was perfectly fine to have even 50 years ago isn't feasable any longer. You wentforma situation where a couple of thousands pilgrims come ever year to several million and still increasing fast. Due to the advent of things such as planes, and due to the increase in the general worlds financial well being, more people than ever can attempt the pilgrimage. These are just modern world realities that you have to adapt to. Nobody crosses the sahara on foot anymore to go the hajj.
I second that, especially the first two sentences
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Old April 6th, 2007, 06:13 AM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaki View Post
Prayer calls don't really give you that much time to prepare, they usually come just a few minutes before the actual prayer starts. This is more helpful.
That's why there are two calls per prayer.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 06:26 AM   #486
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abu bakr was the first ruler after mohammed and the man responsible for preserving the quran in the precise written form it still continues in today. the house was 1400 years old when it was demolished. how is a hilton hotel there rather than any other site in the city good. how is the existence of the historic building NOT worshipping god?
sayidda khadija was one of the prophets daughters. her mother was the first person to convert to islam. out of everywhere you could build toilets you pick this 1400 year old building.

Quote:
Your not supposed to be worshipping anything but god in islam anyways, not even the prophet.
thatll be news to the shia then who celebrate people and places too.

building tlal in a cramped city is important. no one is saying dont build tall, they are all saying "why demolish the historic core of the city to build a luxury hotel?" retain the historic core, build the new stuff a bit out from it, if youre worried about people getting from a-b then just build an underground metro system.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 06:32 AM   #487
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for what's it worth, i'm re-posting 2 of my posts from the Saudi forums for the same building(s).


....you have to understand the logistics of Makkah. If you have been there (and see the area and not just the mosque) you will realize that the holy mosque is surrounded by mountains. That's how it always was. Buildings, etc were built on the sides of the mountains and you should know that there are limitations to that. So, in recent years, some of the mountains have been flattened to make taller buildings. Still, that is a very difficult process. Think about it, that whole area is very dense so it's not easy to just blast away.

Therefore, the real estate prices are very high and the developers (any developer but just the government) have to build high to make up for the costs associated with acquiring land and construction. It might seem really simple but building near the haram is very costly...just think about the insurance/liability in case of accidents.

Most people are against limiting the number of pilgrims coming to Makkah. Do you think it's really possible to accomodate people without building high? Also, have you seen the deplorable conditions of most of the hotels around the Haram? They're in extremely bad shape. In some cases there's a single bathroom for an entire floor of people. Why would anyone want that to continue? I feel like, if there is more and more development...ultimately the competition will start to bring the prices down a bit (maybe not that much) more people will be able afford livable conditions when they visit the holy mosque. Maybe you're a young man....think about your parents...if you brought them to Makkah...would you want them to stay in one of those crumbling buildings? What about the older people who are really frail? What's so bad if they stay close to the Haram? Anyway, there are soo many arguments as to why this building isn't the evil everyone is making it out to be.

I'm getting tired of defending this....please go for yourself...see how things are there for yourselves..and decide if we need new projects and new developments there.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 06:34 AM   #488
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There is also a risk with keeping these structures around, which is why the government destroys/demolishes them. Just think about what you said. You felt like crying when you heard/saw that some of these structures are being destroyed. That's exactly the problem. People get too attached to these structures where mere humans lived. After a while people (or even now if they were allowed to) people would start glorifying these sites as something associated with God even though that is not the case.

For this very reason, Islam discourages idols and similar type of objects as this, in the past, has led to idol worship. Think about this: A man finds/makes a little statue. He's very excited and starts heading over to his friend's place to show him. On the way, some incident occurs but he survives. He starts thinking...oh wow..the idol is good luck..it protected me...and then he tells his kids...and once he passes away...his kids semi-worship it as something that saved his father..and..so on...that's how it starts..

If we leave these structures around (which I have nothing against personally..I'm just explaining why the government takes steps against them) we run the risk that people may get too attached to them (which you can see happen to yourself) and in a few generations people may start signifying those sites as holy and worship the remnants. This has happened over the centuries..and still does....especially in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh. Mere mortals are turned into God or God's special people and people sit around and worship them....ask them for favors, etc.

So in the end we have to decide...what's more important...to follow God's word and destroy what could potentially lead people to follow the wrong path and associate structures with God...or leave them for sentimental reasons..
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Old April 6th, 2007, 08:13 AM   #489
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After seeing the new rendering with the clock, I think the name of the building should be...........


BIG BIN.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 08:27 AM   #490
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This thread needs to return to its topic now please.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 02:09 PM   #491
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Yeah build a commercial center next to religious and cultural center of the muslim world ******* GENIOUS! NOT!
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Old April 6th, 2007, 05:06 PM   #492
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then one of admin should change the title of the thread to add (PART 2) and (U/C) instead of proposed
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Old April 6th, 2007, 07:47 PM   #493
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Any photos of the old houses?
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Old April 6th, 2007, 09:36 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezzybaby View Post
LOL

thats the funniest post ever, gothicforms the guy who does the banning on this forum, dont think hes gonna ban himself... you fool.
If he is one of people who ban here (moderator) and he argues that much about this project and repeating himself then bye bye skyscraperforum
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Old April 6th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #495
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He is one of the Administrators
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Old April 7th, 2007, 02:29 AM   #496
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Rather ugly in my opinion. The original was better, but even then its a too big and bulky.
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Old April 7th, 2007, 02:54 AM   #497
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Any new updates??????
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Old April 7th, 2007, 05:24 PM   #498
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I got new information. Maybe some of you know it and others don't.

Did you guys know that there will be a railway station connected to this project?

Anyway It is a fact. Railway station will be connected to it inshallah (god willing)
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Old April 8th, 2007, 03:09 AM   #499
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DreaM1981, what do you mean by railway station? Is this the railway connecting Makkah to the other cities or is this a local train station..like for a mass transit within the city? Will this station be underground?
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Old April 8th, 2007, 02:08 PM   #500
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as for me this mecca looks like a big railway station
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