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Old September 6th, 2010, 08:14 PM   #5421
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Old September 6th, 2010, 08:27 PM   #5422
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Staying in those towers behind the al bait looks like it would be like staying in the kowloon walled city it would be so dark and cramped. Why do they have to be so close?!
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Old September 6th, 2010, 08:34 PM   #5423
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A monster project!!
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Old September 6th, 2010, 09:12 PM   #5424
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Old September 6th, 2010, 10:52 PM   #5425
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What`s the current capacity of pilgrims and how will it develope in the next years?

I think in some years when oil runs out they will allow tourists in Mekkah to generate some extra cash.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 10:58 PM   #5426
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Originally Posted by Tom_Green View Post
What`s the current capacity of pilgrims and how will it develope in the next years?

I think in some years when oil runs out they will allow tourists in Mekkah to generate some extra cash.
the current capacity is 4 Million. the future aim is 10 Million.

Non-muslims are not allowed to enter Makkah, this is clear and undebatable (written in the Quran). and in the year 2000 there were 1 billion muslims, in 2005 they became 1.6 billion. if the oil runs out, we will not run out of muslims. so don't get your hopes up.

islam & Makkah has been here for thousands of years, we were living without oil just fine and we don't need it to live.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 11:31 PM   #5427
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Originally Posted by GulfArabia View Post
the current capacity is 4 Million. the future aim is 10 Million.

Non-muslims are not allowed to enter Makkah, this is clear and undebatable (written in the Quran). and in the year 2000 there were 1 billion muslims, in 2005 they became 1.6 billion. if the oil runs out, we will not run out of muslims. so don't get your hopes up.

islam & Makkah has been here for thousands of years, we were living without oil just fine and we don't need it to live.
But during the longest period non mulsim have been allowed in Mekkah.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 11:46 PM   #5428
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Originally Posted by GulfArabia View Post
the current capacity is 4 Million. the future aim is 10 Million.

Non-muslims are not allowed to enter Makkah, this is clear and undebatable (written in the Quran). and in the year 2000 there were 1 billion muslims, in 2005 they became 1.6 billion. if the oil runs out, we will not run out of muslims. so don't get your hopes up.

islam & Makkah has been here for thousands of years, we were living without oil just fine and we don't need it to live.
How they check the faith? How they know that i am muslim or not?
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Old September 6th, 2010, 11:46 PM   #5429
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But during the longest period non mulsim have been allowed in Mekkah.
1431 years ago the Decision was made final. that won't change
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Old September 7th, 2010, 12:37 AM   #5430
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Originally Posted by GulfArabia View Post
the current capacity is 4 Million. the future aim is 10 Million.

Non-muslims are not allowed to enter Makkah, this is clear and undebatable (written in the Quran). and in the year 2000 there were 1 billion muslims, in 2005 they became 1.6 billion. if the oil runs out, we will not run out of muslims. so don't get your hopes up.

islam & Makkah has been here for thousands of years, we were living without oil just fine and we don't need it to live.
A rather aggressive response to a mild post in my humble opinion. You seem to think that all non-Muslims hate Islam. I think the problem that we find is that any suggestion of criticism is met with this sort of hostile defensiveness, just like a teenager full of boastfulness and bragging but inwardly deeply insecure.

Islam is a great religion, which has contributed massively to the history of mankind - I just don't think that we are now living at one of its finest moments, even if there are more people counted as Muslims than ever before.

This inability to be self-critical or to react positively to the criticism of others means that you saddle yourselves with such architectural monstrosities as the Abraj Al-Bait, which people have rightly compared to the worst of Las Vegas. I would love to know what Mark Twain would have made of that building 'Proof that the Muslims have a sense of humour' I guess.

You ought to go to places such as Seville, Cordoba or Granada to see what followers of your religion are capable of. Not only did the people of Al Andalus create magnificent architecture but they led the world in science, mathematics and astronomy and, back in the fifteenth century (C.E.) were treating mentally ill people whilst those in Christian Europe were locking them up and laughing at them.

Islamic civilization has retreated since then - probably due to the aftermath of European colonisation. Maybe if that hadn't happened, Islam would have been the prime mover behind the Enlightenment and at the forefront of modern secular civilisation.

At the end of the day, it is not non-Muslims that are going to destroy Islam, it is Muslims themselves who have forgotten what their religion is all about.
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Old September 7th, 2010, 12:43 AM   #5431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
A rather aggressive response to a mild post in my humble opinion. You seem to think that all non-Muslims hate Islam. I think the problem that we find is that any suggestion of criticism is met with this sort of hostile defensiveness, just like a teenager full of boastfulness and bragging but inwardly deeply insecure.

Islam is a great religion, which has contributed massively to the history of mankind - I just don't think that we are now living at one of its finest moments, even if there are more people counted as Muslims than ever before.

This inability to be self-critical or to react positively to the criticism of others means that you saddle yourselves with such architectural monstrosities as the Abraj Al-Bait, which people have rightly compared to the worst of Las Vegas. I would love to know what Mark Twain would have made of that building 'Proof that the Muslims have a sense of humour' I guess.

You ought to go to places such as Seville, Cordoba or Granada to see what followers of your religion are capable of. Not only did the people of Al Andalus create magnificent architecture but they led the world in science, mathematics and astronomy and, back in the fifteenth century (C.E.) were treating mentally ill people whilst those in Christian Europe were locking them up and laughing at them.

Islamic civilization has retreated since then - probably due to the aftermath of European colonisation. Maybe if that hadn't happened, Islam would have been the prime mover behind the Enlightenment and at the forefront of modern secular civilisation.

At the end of the day, it is not non-Muslims that are going to destroy Islam, it is Muslims themselves who have forgotten what their religion is all about.
+1
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Old September 7th, 2010, 01:50 AM   #5432
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(.....).
+2

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Old September 7th, 2010, 02:17 AM   #5433
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I can't believe they are building something so massive in such a religious area... what is this tower going to bring? it looks disproportionate and ridiculous !
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Old September 7th, 2010, 02:28 AM   #5434
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Salaam All.

I have just joined up today after reading this thread/topic for well over a couple of months now. I have to admit this project is very big, same goes for the building haha.

However, I feel that the location was wrong. I went for Hajj and Umrah back in 1994. I was only about 6 years old then. I remember seeing the Al-Ajyad Castle as a kid and thinking "Wow, I really want to go up there", as it was on Bulbul mountain, it was quite a sight when you're a child.

However family members went on Hajj 4 years a go, and I asked about the Castle and everyone said they didn't see? I remember back in 2001 there being some sort of confrontation about knocking something down in Makkah, but didn't pay much attention.

Anyway after a bit of googling I realised they have knocked it down for this beast of a building.

Makkah is known for the Kaa'ba, it's mosque and Mount Hira. Aswell as the pilgrimage and so forth.

I wish they hadn't knocked down the castle, and they built this building elsewhere, but I've grown to like it somewhat, and atleast it will help provide a place to stay for the more pilgrimage's who can afford to go on Hajj and Umrah.

I also read somewhere that they will rebuild Al-Ajyad castle? But haven't had no more information on this.

But least to say, it's a wonderful project, just in my opinion they should have built it at a different location.
I think you answered your own question there (see bolded). The main purpose is pilgrimage (hajj, umrah) and prayer not sight-seeing castles for children. It is far more important to accommodate people in safe, comfortable settings and increasing prayer space as the number of muslims is ever-increasing. Thus, buildings like this are very much required, especially considering Makkah's geography.
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Old September 7th, 2010, 02:32 AM   #5435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GulfArabia View Post
the current capacity is 4 Million. the future aim is 10 Million.

Non-muslims are not allowed to enter Makkah, this is clear and undebatable (written in the Quran). and in the year 2000 there were 1 billion muslims, in 2005 they became 1.6 billion. if the oil runs out, we will not run out of muslims. so don't get your hopes up.

islam & Makkah has been here for thousands of years, we were living without oil just fine and we don't need it to live.
one time i snuck into mecca and im not a muslim!!
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Old September 7th, 2010, 02:36 AM   #5436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
A rather aggressive response to a mild post in my humble opinion. You seem to think that all non-Muslims hate Islam. I think the problem that we find is that any suggestion of criticism is met with this sort of hostile defensiveness, just like a teenager full of boastfulness and bragging but inwardly deeply insecure.

Islam is a great religion, which has contributed massively to the history of mankind - I just don't think that we are now living at one of its finest moments, even if there are more people counted as Muslims than ever before.

This inability to be self-critical or to react positively to the criticism of others means that you saddle yourselves with such architectural monstrosities as the Abraj Al-Bait, which people have rightly compared to the worst of Las Vegas. I would love to know what Mark Twain would have made of that building 'Proof that the Muslims have a sense of humour' I guess.

You ought to go to places such as Seville, Cordoba or Granada to see what followers of your religion are capable of. Not only did the people of Al Andalus create magnificent architecture but they led the world in science, mathematics and astronomy and, back in the fifteenth century (C.E.) were treating mentally ill people whilst those in Christian Europe were locking them up and laughing at them.

Islamic civilization has retreated since then - probably due to the aftermath of European colonisation. Maybe if that hadn't happened, Islam would have been the prime mover behind the Enlightenment and at the forefront of modern secular civilisation.

At the end of the day, it is not non-Muslims that are going to destroy Islam, it is Muslims themselves who have forgotten what their religion is all about.
Generally, I stay away from this thread as the ignorance of people that comment about what is appropriate for Makkah and Islam just plain frustrates me. Yes, you make some good points. There is a lot wrong with Islam today, as is with every other religion. Every religion has people that are extreme and only make things worse for it, not better. Islam is not alone in this. Having said that, to suggest that this building, and others like it, that help accommodate pilgrims is bringing Islam down or giving it a bad image is just [insert your own word here]. The places that you have mentioned, Cordoba or wherever else, did not have to accommodate 3-4 million muslims at a time, as Makkah has to do during hajj. As you have pointed out quite correctly, there are more muslims than ever and therefore the capacity of the Kaaba/Grand Mosque in Makkah has to be increased and tall towers will be required to make efficient use of the limited space available in Makkah.
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Old September 7th, 2010, 02:38 AM   #5437
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I think you answered your own question there (see bolded). The main purpose is pilgrimage (hajj, umrah) and prayer not sight-seeing castles for children. It is far more important to accommodate people in safe, comfortable settings and increasing prayer space as the number of muslims is ever-increasing. Thus, buildings like this are very much required, especially considering Makkah's geography.
Fair enough, and a valid point. However, I think it kept some of Makkah's history. I've grown to like the new project, but I hope it doesn't turn into a "who can build the tallest building" in the world project.

Sight seeing is not really a thing. If I go to Makkah now, I would rather live in a 3star hotel, and the money I'd save to give to the poor. I'd spend most of my time in the mosque. I had family go earlier this year and all they would talk about was the hilton hotel, really sad imo.

To house the million of Muslims around the world, good.

For showmen ship towards other countries to show them who is the boss of big build projects, bad.

I hope this is the only tall build and Makkah does keep some of it's old heritage. I understand fully that they need to accommodate as more and more muslims are able to go on hajj and umrah. And it's good they are thinking about this.
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Old September 7th, 2010, 02:39 AM   #5438
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one time i snuck into mecca and im not a muslim!!
and people take heroin too.
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Old September 7th, 2010, 07:25 AM   #5439
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Why are you in such a shock? I personally know non-Muslims who've been there.
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Old September 7th, 2010, 07:56 AM   #5440
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Fair enough, and a valid point. However, I think it kept some of Makkah's history. I've grown to like the new project, but I hope it doesn't turn into a "who can build the tallest building" in the world project.

Sight seeing is not really a thing. If I go to Makkah now, I would rather live in a 3star hotel, and the money I'd save to give to the poor. I'd spend most of my time in the mosque. I had family go earlier this year and all they would talk about was the hilton hotel, really sad imo.

To house the million of Muslims around the world, good.

For showmen ship towards other countries to show them who is the boss of big build projects, bad.

I hope this is the only tall build and Makkah does keep some of it's old heritage. I understand fully that they need to accommodate as more and more muslims are able to go on hajj and umrah. And it's good they are thinking about this.
I don't think that was their intention. If it was, I am sure a much taller tower/project would have been conceived. Think about the amount of money being spent in the country on various projects. Don't you think they could have made this taller by another few hundred meters and thus eclipse the burj khalifa? But they didn't..

Also, I know and understand it is sad when people are more impressed by a hotel/building than the mosque itself. Ideally, none of us would like that. However, just because you would rather stay at a 3-star hotel and donate the rest of the money to charity (a noble thing to do) does not mean we can expect others to follow that example. People have money and they will seek luxury, even in Makkah. That is a fact we have to accept. So, with that in mind, is it not better if that luxury is provided by a project that channels its proceeds back into the Grand Mosque?
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