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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:15 PM   #5581
Matthieu
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No more no less than other religions and Islam, if you actually bothered knowing about it, is among monotheist religions probably the most rational one and the one that leaves the most place to science (after Baha'i Faith which is fairly marginal unfortunately), not to mention you cannot put all Muslims together as a clearly defined group, there are more differences between Quranist and Hadinists (and within Hadithists between Shi'a and Sunni) than between Protestants and Catholics (and within Catholics between Romans and Orthodoxes).

In all cases, on the question of the Ottoman fortress they demolished to make place this article mention a reconstructions:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1748711.stm

He added that no-one had the right to interfere and that a reconstruction of the fort would be included as part of the site redevelopment.

Are they going to rebuild the fortress elsewhere?
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:20 PM   #5582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike____ View Post
but you do worship fairytails ?
You have no right to insult my religion and call God a fairytail. No one forced you to believe and no one cares what you believe in. Discuss the building and be more considerate.
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:21 PM   #5583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GulfArabia View Post
we don't worship buildings
It's not about worshipping a building, it's about preserving the evidences of the past.
So you say that you don't care about your country's past.

And i repeat it, i think that the demolition wasn't unavoidable. I see plenty of free space less than 1km southeast of the mosque.
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:25 PM   #5584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annibale View Post
It's not about worshipping a building, it's about preserving the evidences of the past.
So you say that you don't care about your country's past.

And i repeat it, i think that the demolition wasn't unavoidable. I see plenty of free space less than 1km southeast of the mosque.
Maybe its cos its not his countries past? and that article that was just posted suggested the turks and saudis don't exactly get on well.
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:26 PM   #5585
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what is the fuss about a sand castle?
the mosque itself (both in Makkah and Madinah) now encompasses most or all of the old cities, which means many buildings that were historic.
they didn't just destroy the castle because it was historic (a couple of hundred years??) but because they found the need for housing in proximity to the Grand Mosque more important then the castle.

i have seen many protected heritage sites in Saudi, and believe me, there are plenty.
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #5586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annibale View Post
It's not about worshipping a building, it's about preserving the evidences of the past.
So you say that you don't care about your country's past.

And i repeat it, i think that the demolition wasn't unavoidable. I see plenty of free space less than 1km southeast of the mosque.
what you see there is a mountain. even the hills are full of houses in Makkah. if you were there you would know that Makkah is not a city with plenty of space.
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:35 PM   #5587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REAPER666 94 View Post
Maybe its cos its not his countries past? and that article that was just posted suggested the turks and saudis don't exactly get on well.
there are many Turkish era buildings and places protected and some avoided destruction even for expansion (both Holy Mosques have them)

so it isn't about being Turkish or Arabic.
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:37 PM   #5588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthieu View Post
No more no less than other religions and Islam, if you actually bothered knowing about it, is among monotheist religions probably the most rational one and the one that leaves the most place to science (after Baha'i Faith which is fairly marginal unfortunately), not to mention you cannot put all Muslims together as a clearly defined group, there are more differences between Quranist and Hadinists (and within Hadithists between Shi'a and Sunni) than between Protestants and Catholics (and within Catholics between Romans and Orthodoxes).

In all cases, on the question of the Ottoman fortress they demolished to make place this article mention a reconstructions:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1748711.stm

He added that no-one had the right to interfere and that a reconstruction of the fort would be included as part of the site redevelopment.

Are they going to rebuild the fortress elsewhere?
85% of muslims follow the Quran and the Sunnah (authentic traditions "ahadeeth" of the prophet). the rest 15% follow SECTS. these 15% call the 85% "sunni". "sunni" is not a sect. because islam considers "sects" as a deviation from Islam. Saudi arabia is considered restrictedly "Sunni".

The saudi government have demolished "shrines" and "statues" because they go against islam. Turkey (which is not the Othman empire and shouldn't complain) does not follow the authentic islam (mostly) and does not have the right to force something upon the saudi government or people.

and i love saudi for that.
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:42 PM   #5589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annibale View Post
It's not about worshipping a building, it's about preserving the evidences of the past.
So you say that you don't care about your country's past.

And i repeat it, i think that the demolition wasn't unavoidable. I see plenty of free space less than 1km southeast of the mosque.
Makkah in the first place is a religious center, if a construction has no religious value, then it is easily removed as many and many older historical constructions have been removed before. I really feel happy that you feel bad about that castle, but Makkah and Madinah are different, and the demolition of historical biuldings had been there since the 680 AD and will continue as it is the historical process.
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:50 PM   #5590
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^ very true

Makkah has the first house of worship in the world, the kaaba it self was rebuilt a number of times before and after prophet muhammed
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:52 PM   #5591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GulfArabia View Post
85% of muslims follow the Quran and the Sunnah (authentic traditions "ahadeeth" of the prophet). the rest 15% follow SECTS. these 15% call the 85% "sunni". "sunni" is not a sect. because islam considers "sects" as a deviation from Islam. Saudi arabia is considered restrictedly "Sunni".

The saudi government have demolished "shrines" and "statues" because they go against islam. Turkey (which is not the Othman empire and shouldn't complain) does not follow the authentic islam (mostly) and does not have the right to force something upon the saudi government or people.

and i love saudi for that.
We're moving too off topic here for my taste, but I'll answer you in pm (as an outsider of Islam who just learned about it from an external perspective and with a critical eye).
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Old September 12th, 2010, 10:57 PM   #5592
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So you refuse the concept of conservation...

Pleas note that i'm not making any "religion" talking or "arabic/turkish" talking, I just feel unconceivable that you take as normal the demolition of a monument for building an hotel, that's it...
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Old September 12th, 2010, 11:12 PM   #5593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annibale View Post
So you refuse the concept of conservation...

Pleas note that i'm not making any "religion" talking or "arabic/turkish" talking, I just feel unconceivable that you take as normal the demolition of a monument for building an hotel, that's it...
conservation does not come first when it comes to our religion, the mosques expiation is the saudi government responsibility. we won't keep it to satisfy "non-muslims" who are not going to visit it, nor our "worldly" needs. (our point of view)

conservation is okey when its possible and does not harm
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Old September 12th, 2010, 11:15 PM   #5594
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Hey people, remember that building called Abraj Albait
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Old September 12th, 2010, 11:29 PM   #5595
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its also an ENDOWMENT. all profits goes the maintenance of the 2 holy mosques and charity, nothing goes the saudi treasury
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Old September 13th, 2010, 08:47 AM   #5596
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Update september 2010

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
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Old September 13th, 2010, 09:43 AM   #5597
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world's tallest clock is wow Saudi is racing Dubai toward sky!
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Old September 13th, 2010, 11:58 AM   #5598
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this one is not only tall, its simply massive.
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Old September 13th, 2010, 03:39 PM   #5599
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I would like to see some close-up pictures of the structure now being built above the clocks. From a distance it looks complex and dangerous to build!
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Old September 13th, 2010, 09:20 PM   #5600
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I'd like to learn more about the tent structures being built here. Anything you could mention would be much appreciated.
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