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Old December 23rd, 2010, 07:11 AM   #6681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post

The idea that the meuzzins (?) would need a clock to tell them what time to start their calls to prayer is a little far fetched. First of all, it might be pointed out that they have done perfectly OK for the last fifteen centuries but if there is a need for them to be 'as accurate as modern technology will allow' then there are much more effective and far cheaper ways of doing that. In fact, I would expect that from the level of the Kaaba, parallax between the hands and the clockface would make reading the time accurately fairly difficult.
WOW, hold it....who said the Muezzin will check the clock on the tower for accurate timing of the call to prayer?
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:16 AM   #6682
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Nice updates.....Place has become wide streets more than the previous period I visited the place years ago and the streets were narrow...جزاكم الله خيرا حكومة وشعبا
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:41 AM   #6683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
I've followed this thread fairly closely for some time now but I have never seen anyone give an adequate explanation of why this building suddenly turned into a clocktower at quite a late stage in its execution. The earlier renders did bear more than a passing resemblance to the Moscow skyscrapers of the Stalin era - as was pointed out by several people, including myself, and I wonder if the change was a response to that realisation. After all, it wouldn't do for the holiest shrine in Islam to be dominated by a symbol of Soviet atheism.

If this was an attempt to outdo Big Ben then it is a little late in the day. Big Ben's clockface was surpassed in size by that of the Royal Liver Building in Liverpool as far back as 1911 and really, since then, few people have been interested in building new clocktowers. The reason is that they are an anachronism. The advent of wrist watches and radio time checks meant that large civic clocks were no longer required. (Big Ben was in its heyday an important means of checking time and the authorities went to the length of publishing sound maps of London so that people could find out how long the sound of the clock chimes had taken to reach them).

The idea that the meuzzins (?) would need a clock to tell them what time to start their calls to prayer is a little far fetched. First of all, it might be pointed out that they have done perfectly OK for the last fifteen centuries but if there is a need for them to be 'as accurate as modern technology will allow' then there are much more effective and far cheaper ways of doing that. In fact, I would expect that from the level of the Kaaba, parallax between the hands and the clockface would make reading the time accurately fairly difficult.

As for the clock being used as a reference for worshippers in the surrounding area, that doesn't sound too plausible. The problem is that in any built up city, tall buildings are very difficult to see. Some years ago, I walked around the City of London trying to locate the Swiss Re tower. Even though the prevailing building height is only around eight storeys, you would only get the occasional glimpse of the building right until you were close up to it.

So, I wonder how many people are ever going to use the Mecca clocktower to check the time?
Well, I use it to check time :P. And BTW, Almost all the buildings in Makkah are low-rises, even the so-called "towers" don't surpass 20-30 floors, so its not difficult to locate a tall and HUGE clock tower even from outside the city
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 01:42 PM   #6684
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Originally Posted by Uaarkson View Post
That was perhaps the most intense over-analysis of anything I've ever witnessed.
lol, alot of emotions where poured into this analysis, the guy didn't even been to makkah before
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 04:46 PM   #6685
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I thought his 'over analysis' was actually very interesting to read. Having looked back at the early renders it did look a little Stalinist in style so the change to the clock tower was probably a good idea. The detailing on the clock itself is incredible - but will you notice this when it's 500m in the air? Also is it true they used gold on the clock faces?...considering the size of them, this seems a little wasteful and unnecessary.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 07:51 PM   #6686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
I've followed this thread fairly closely for some time now but I have never seen anyone give an adequate explanation of why this building suddenly turned into a clocktower at quite a late stage in its execution. The earlier renders did bear more than a passing resemblance to the Moscow skyscrapers of the Stalin era - as was pointed out by several people, including myself, and I wonder if the change was a response to that realisation. After all, it wouldn't do for the holiest shrine in Islam to be dominated by a symbol of Soviet atheism.

If this was an attempt to outdo Big Ben then it is a little late in the day. Big Ben's clockface was surpassed in size by that of the Royal Liver Building in Liverpool as far back as 1911 and really, since then, few people have been interested in building new clocktowers. The reason is that they are an anachronism. The advent of wrist watches and radio time checks meant that large civic clocks were no longer required. (Big Ben was in its heyday an important means of checking time and the authorities went to the length of publishing sound maps of London so that people could find out how long the sound of the clock chimes had taken to reach them).

The idea that the meuzzins (?) would need a clock to tell them what time to start their calls to prayer is a little far fetched. First of all, it might be pointed out that they have done perfectly OK for the last fifteen centuries but if there is a need for them to be 'as accurate as modern technology will allow' then there are much more effective and far cheaper ways of doing that. In fact, I would expect that from the level of the Kaaba, parallax between the hands and the clockface would make reading the time accurately fairly difficult.

As for the clock being used as a reference for worshippers in the surrounding area, that doesn't sound too plausible. The problem is that in any built up city, tall buildings are very difficult to see. Some years ago, I walked around the City of London trying to locate the Swiss Re tower. Even though the prevailing building height is only around eight storeys, you would only get the occasional glimpse of the building right until you were close up to it.

So, I wonder how many people are ever going to use the Mecca clocktower to check the time?
yes like one said before, it look like a mix of Triumph Palace and Big Ben. I don't know, they start with a idea (of a Palace)and develop it through the years...

For the clock, it's like in 2007 they had a idea of an ''islamic mean time'' (IMT) for the muslim world. It's not a clock just for a clock! To have the story of this building must be interesting!

[IMG]http://i13.************/433bgoo.jpg[/IMG]


A Muslim researcher who will change the universal time at "Time"

"The clock of Makkah is more appropriate and more accurate than Greenwich"


Professor Yasin Al Shouk
June 2010

The world will he a new average time after Greenwich Mean Time? The Greenwich Meridian is he ranked in the history of mankind? ... Everything is possible not to say that "it is obvious" according to the results of scientific research conducted by Professor Yasin Al Shouk, researcher of Palestinian origin who worked for over 30 years on the issue. "I was able to demonstrate through mathematical calculations that the zero longitude passes through Mecca and that this city is the geographic, topographic and magnetic globe," he says.

"Where the project or the idea of" Makkah Meridien "is located 70 miles north of Mecca," says Professor Al Shouk. Composed of a museum, a mosque and an observatory, the "Meridien Makkah is the center of the world, again according to the researcher. And adding "it shows that the zero longitude is in Saudi Arabia and extends to Russia through Syria, Iraq and Turkey."

To convince the international community's credibility and his research after having presented at the 38th edition of the International Invention, Professor Al Shouk plans to organize an international conference in Geneva on the subject. Under the theme "Meridien Makkah. Peace dialogue between civilization and religion 2010 ", the conference will be an opportunity to better explain the project and especially provide scientific evidence to prove that Mecca is indeed the center of the earth.

Better yet, an entire book will be published shortly in this regard. "This is the first book in the world who will present in detail the project," says Professor Al Shouk. Besides, "it is a publisher of Tunisia who will take care," he connects. "And if I chose Tunisia to edit the book because it has always been a host country. I am grateful to Tunisia for hosting my father years ago, "contends Professor Al Shouk. He says "it is likely that the conference" Meridien Makkah. Peace dialogue between civilization and religion 2010 "should also be held in Tunisia.

Sa'at Makkah

Also in the same context and to better prove his research, Professor has invented a watch for decades called "Sa'at Makkah" www.saatmakkah.com
recognized by the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) since 2005. " Invented there are more than thirty years, the watch rotates in the opposite direction to that available currently. "It works from left to right. This is in fact the orientation of the circulatory system, electrons, and planets ... "He says. Besides "the watch will be built and sold in Tunisia soon. An agreement will be signed with an investor Tunisia to make it available on the market, "says the researcher. "This unit is in harmony with the natural orientation of different systems. It has already been used for centuries in Tunisia, "he says. Proof: "traces of a mural showing the city of Testour still exist. It dates from 1630 and was invented by Mohammed Taghrinou, "he says.

While such a groundbreaking research has not been welcomed by the countries of the West mainly Great Britain, who for years refused to take seriously the results of the researcher Al Shouk. "This reflects the fact that its scientific and economic interests will be affected negatively." Greenwich Meridian attracts thousands of tourists annually. This is the center of the world which could be transferred to an Arab country.

translate from: http://www.letemps.com.tn/article.php?ID_art=45387


info: www.saatmakkah.com

Last edited by Roukaya19; December 23rd, 2010 at 11:11 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 08:41 PM   #6687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roukaya19 View Post
yes like one said before, it look like a mix of Triumph Palace and Big Ben. I don't know, they start with a idea (of a Palace)and develop it through the years...

For the clock, it's like in 2007 they had a idea of an ''islamic mean time'' (IMT) for the muslim world. To have the story of this building must be interesting!

[IMG]http://i13.************/433bgoo.jpg[/IMG]
another one is missing
2009
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:44 PM   #6688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uaarkson View Post
That was perhaps the most intense over-analysis of anything I've ever witnessed.
I'm an engineer Uaarkson and that is how we look at things.

All the same, I would hope that the decision to add a clocktower was done with a little more consideration than my little analysis - after all I expect it cost a fair amount both in the additional structure, the cost of the clockfaces themselves, the mechanism and the loss of space that could have been used for hotel accommodation, apartments etc.

Of course, it might just have been a case of 'ooh wouldn't a big clock be nice?'
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 11:20 PM   #6689
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Originally Posted by CrazyDave View Post
At 600 Meters this Tower will never be difficult to see
Apologies for a bit more overanalysis here but, as our American brethren would say 'do the math'.

My religious affiliations don't allow me any closer to Mecca than the bingo hall but looking on Google, you can see that it is a city with a very traditional street pattern in the main - neither the grid system of New York nor the radial system of Paris - just a tangle of medieval streets - very similar in that respect to the City of London.

Now, if you are in one of those streets that is normal to your line of sight to the tower and if you are 2m high, the street is 10m wide and the buildings on the clocktower side of the street are five storeys, (i.e. around 15m high), then if you are a mere 330m from the tower you will not be able to see the clock (the centre of the dial being at 430m).

Of course, that assumes that the city is perfectly flat, which it isn't but the effects of gradients will tend to even themselves out.

I would expect that anyone walking around the streets of Mecca will find the clocktower obscured for most of the time but will then get a dramatic vista as they turn a street corner - much the same as in the City of London.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 11:25 PM   #6690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticMcGoo View Post
At least 2 or 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roukaya19
At least 2 or 3 millions
I guess somewhere in between - but if you can afford to travel to Mecca, you can afford a wristwatch.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 11:29 PM   #6691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abumuhannadh View Post
WOW, hold it....who said the Muezzin will check the clock on the tower for accurate timing of the call to prayer?
Wasn't me abumuhannadh - but I remember that being suggested by a poster some time ago - give me a month or two and I'll dig up the post.

I know it doesn't sound that plausible but it is the only justification I have seen for the decision to add a clock to the building.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 11:32 PM   #6692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makkawi.Pk View Post
Well, I use it to check time :P. And BTW, Almost all the buildings in Makkah are low-rises, even the so-called "towers" don't surpass 20-30 floors, so its not difficult to locate a tall and HUGE clock tower even from outside the city
Outside the city would probably be the best location. As I pointed out before, even in a fairly low rise city, very tall towers can be obscured.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 11:37 PM   #6693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GulfArabia View Post
lol, alot of emotions where poured into this analysis, the guy didn't even been to makkah before
I get very emotional about geometry Gulfy - and don't get me started on algebra.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 12:06 AM   #6694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roukaya19 View Post
yes like one said before, it look like a mix of Triumph Palace and Big Ben. I don't know, they start with a idea (of a Palace)and develop it through the years...

For the clock, it's like in 2007 they had a idea of an ''islamic mean time'' (IMT) for the muslim world. It's not a clock just for a clock! To have the story of this building must be interesting!

[IMG]http://i13.************/433bgoo.jpg[/IMG]


A Muslim researcher who will change the universal time at "Time"

"The clock of Makkah is more appropriate and more accurate than Greenwich"


Professor Yasin Al Shouk
June 2010

The world will he a new average time after Greenwich Mean Time? The Greenwich Meridian is he ranked in the history of mankind? ... Everything is possible not to say that "it is obvious" according to the results of scientific research conducted by Professor Yasin Al Shouk, researcher of Palestinian origin who worked for over 30 years on the issue. "I was able to demonstrate through mathematical calculations that the zero longitude passes through Mecca and that this city is the geographic, topographic and magnetic globe," he says.

"Where the project or the idea of" Makkah Meridien "is located 70 miles north of Mecca," says Professor Al Shouk. Composed of a museum, a mosque and an observatory, the "Meridien Makkah is the center of the world, again according to the researcher. And adding "it shows that the zero longitude is in Saudi Arabia and extends to Russia through Syria, Iraq and Turkey."

To convince the international community's credibility and his research after having presented at the 38th edition of the International Invention, Professor Al Shouk plans to organize an international conference in Geneva on the subject. Under the theme "Meridien Makkah. Peace dialogue between civilization and religion 2010 ", the conference will be an opportunity to better explain the project and especially provide scientific evidence to prove that Mecca is indeed the center of the earth.

Better yet, an entire book will be published shortly in this regard. "This is the first book in the world who will present in detail the project," says Professor Al Shouk. Besides, "it is a publisher of Tunisia who will take care," he connects. "And if I chose Tunisia to edit the book because it has always been a host country. I am grateful to Tunisia for hosting my father years ago, "contends Professor Al Shouk. He says "it is likely that the conference" Meridien Makkah. Peace dialogue between civilization and religion 2010 "should also be held in Tunisia.

Sa'at Makkah

Also in the same context and to better prove his research, Professor has invented a watch for decades called "Sa'at Makkah" www.saatmakkah.com
recognized by the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) since 2005. " Invented there are more than thirty years, the watch rotates in the opposite direction to that available currently. "It works from left to right. This is in fact the orientation of the circulatory system, electrons, and planets ... "He says. Besides "the watch will be built and sold in Tunisia soon. An agreement will be signed with an investor Tunisia to make it available on the market, "says the researcher. "This unit is in harmony with the natural orientation of different systems. It has already been used for centuries in Tunisia, "he says. Proof: "traces of a mural showing the city of Testour still exist. It dates from 1630 and was invented by Mohammed Taghrinou, "he says.

While such a groundbreaking research has not been welcomed by the countries of the West mainly Great Britain, who for years refused to take seriously the results of the researcher Al Shouk. "This reflects the fact that its scientific and economic interests will be affected negatively." Greenwich Meridian attracts thousands of tourists annually. This is the center of the world which could be transferred to an Arab country.

translate from: http://www.letemps.com.tn/article.php?ID_art=45387


info: www.saatmakkah.com
So was the idea of 'Mecca Mean Time' developed before or after the decision was made to build the clocktower?

Professor Al Shouk sounds to be one of those hardy zealots such as those who use the migration of natterjack toads to disprove the theory of evolution. He will have a market for his ideas but not, I suppose, a very objective one.

The reason that Greenwich was chosen as the prime meridian of the world was because some point was needed from where to measure longitude - something very important for a maritime nation such as Britain and Greenwich was the site of the Royal Observatory. I doubt that even the most patriotic Briton would consider this east London suburb to be the centre of the world.

There is no reason why Mecca should not be the prime meridian of the world and there would be certain advantages in doing that - e.g. the whole of Europe would be in the Western Hemisphere - but it would mean altering time everywhere in the world and every single map with a grid system. I'm sure that would promote international harmony.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 10:20 AM   #6695
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By Abdulrahman
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Old December 25th, 2010, 02:07 AM   #6696
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21 Dec 2010



22 Dec 2010









23 Dec 2010







24 Dec 2010







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Old December 25th, 2010, 02:29 AM   #6697
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height now approx 540m. looks fab.
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Old December 25th, 2010, 06:13 AM   #6698
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rising too fast? it's been a while since the last diagram
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Old December 25th, 2010, 07:03 AM   #6699
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I've always hated the spire. I think that will be changing soon.
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Old December 25th, 2010, 09:57 AM   #6700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
Apologies for a bit more overanalysis here but, as our American brethren would say 'do the math'.

My religious affiliations don't allow me any closer to Mecca than the bingo hall but looking on Google, you can see that it is a city with a very traditional street pattern in the main - neither the grid system of New York nor the radial system of Paris - just a tangle of medieval streets - very similar in that respect to the City of London.

Now, if you are in one of those streets that is normal to your line of sight to the tower and if you are 2m high, the street is 10m wide and the buildings on the clocktower side of the street are five storeys, (i.e. around 15m high), then if you are a mere 330m from the tower you will not be able to see the clock (the centre of the dial being at 430m).

Of course, that assumes that the city is perfectly flat, which it isn't but the effects of gradients will tend to even themselves out.

I would expect that anyone walking around the streets of Mecca will find the clocktower obscured for most of the time but will then get a dramatic vista as they turn a street corner - much the same as in the City of London.
You forgot the mountains
And don't worry, in about 10 years, those medieval streets will be no more
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