daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 20th, 2007, 05:36 PM   #661
Rody69
Registered User
 
Rody69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jeddah-London
Posts: 2,404
Likes (Received): 1918

Just outside the Islamic world you can find a mosque with out (Manara).
but in the Islamic world the (manara) is a part of the mosque architecture..
Rody69 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 20th, 2007, 08:51 PM   #662
eyrie
2cloudsabove9
 
eyrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 368
Likes (Received): 6

Those are great examples and thanks guys.
eyrie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2007, 02:10 AM   #663
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rody69 View Post
Just outside the Islamic world you can find a mosque with out (Manara).
but in the Islamic world the (manara) is a part of the mosque architecture..
Note true. The example I provided in post 665 is from Turkey. That being said, there might actually be more without minarets in countries with Muslim minorities.

In fact, historically, they were not part of masjid architecture at all. None of the mosques built around Muhammad's time had them (just look at the Al-Aqsa in Jeruselum as an example). While there is debate as to where the first one was (e.g. West Africa versus Syria versus Yemen) their incorporation in masjids was part of an evolution.

Al-Aqsa:


As an interesting tid-bit, the minaret in the great mosque of Damascus (one of the ones that might actually be the first) was formerly a bell tower (the thing was previously a cathedral, but became a masjid after a majority of the people became Muslim, and so the Muslims swapped multiple smaller pieces of land to house several churches, for the cathedral). The guys used to walk the streets making the call for prayer, and upon seeing the bell tower, used their intellects and thought that might be a better way to do it. This actually demonstrates how Islamic architecture has always been one where there has been evolution, while the symbols and themes of the past are maintained.

While some people will say Islamic architecture means "minaret, dome, etc.", those are actually NOT the hallmarks. The themes (which then are interpreted and presented with creativity and respect for context) include things like balance, embedding of knowledge (eg by way of geometry), being appropriate to location, being reflective of context and the environment, etc. Some things that actually claim to be Islamic architecture (because they have a dome and/or a minaret) are actually far from it, as they are often disrespecting of context and environment.

Along the same lines, here is a masjid in China (Huajuexiang Mosque in Xian - present structure erected in 1392, replacing an earlier one that is though to have been built in the 7th century!) built using the themes of Islamic architecture:


Many people mistake Arab culture and design as Islamic in an overarching way, but the Muslim world is much more diverse than that, and on many fronts!

Last edited by walli; August 21st, 2007 at 02:20 AM.
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2007, 02:20 AM   #664
Dex
Más allá del infinito!
 
Dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Antwerpen
Posts: 1,252
Likes (Received): 75

Beautiful
__________________
- PER ARDVA AD ASTRA -
Dex no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2007, 10:02 PM   #665
jamude18
In Your Thoughts
 
jamude18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: los angeles
Posts: 1,195
Likes (Received): 5

i love it
__________________
No Mas Farc
jamude18 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2007, 08:26 PM   #666
Rody69
Registered User
 
Rody69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jeddah-London
Posts: 2,404
Likes (Received): 1918

nice pictures
Rody69 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2007, 04:10 PM   #667
Rody69
Registered User
 
Rody69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jeddah-London
Posts: 2,404
Likes (Received): 1918

I saw this video,and I'd like to share it with you guys...
((it's about Abraj Albait project))
1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdjAU6l_0ic&NR=1
Rody69 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2007, 07:50 PM   #668
ZZ-II
I love Skyscrapers
 
ZZ-II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Ingolstadt in Bavaria
Posts: 33,502
Likes (Received): 6525

great video, thx for posting
ZZ-II no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2007, 09:37 PM   #669
DreaM1981
Registered User
 
DreaM1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 3

Hajar Tower (Under Construction)



Maqam Tower (Under Construction)



Makkah Royal Hotel (Under Construction) [Typical floors above the podium]



Top of The Podium (Under Construction) [3 stepped floors remaining will look as pyramid inshallah]



The Tent above Al-Safa Tower (Tent is Under Construction - Tower is Completed)







The Top of Al-Marwa Tower (Tent to be finished next year inshallah - Tower is Completed)

__________________
DreaM1981
DreaM1981 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2007, 09:52 PM   #670
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Shame of the House of Saud: Shadows over Mecca

This is an excellent article from the UK's independent ...


Shame of the House of Saud: Shadows over Mecca
Previously unseen photographs (NOT PUBLISHED WITH THIS ARTICLE) reveal how religious zealots obsessed with idolatory have colluded with developers to destroy Islam's diverse heritage

By Daniel Howden
Published: 19 April 2006

There is a growing shadow being cast over Islam's holiest site. Only a few metres from the walls of the Grand Mosque in Mecca skyscrapers are reaching further into the sky, slowly blocking out the light. These enormous and garish newcomers now dwarf the elegant black granite of the Kaaba, the focal point of the four million Muslims' annual Haj pilgrimage.

The tower blocks are the latest and largest evidence of the destruction of Islamic heritage that has wiped almost all of the historic city from the physical landscape. As revealed in The Independent last August,the historic cities of Mecca and Medina are under an unprecedented assault from religious zealots and their commercial backers.

Writing in response to the article, Prince Turki al-Faisal said that Saudi Arabia was spending more than $19bn (£11bn) preserving and maintaining these two holy sites. "[We are aware] how important the preservation of this heritage is, not just to us but to the millions of Muslims from around the world who visit the two holy mosques every year. It is hardly something we are going to allow to be destroyed."

This rebuttal sits at odds with a series of previously unseen photographs, published today, that document the demolition of key archaeological sites and their replacement with skyscrapers.

Saudi religious authorities have overseen a decades-long demolition campaign that has cleared the way for developers to embark on a building spree of multi-storey hotels, restaurants, shopping centres and luxury apartment blocks on a scale unseen outside Dubai. The driving force behind this historical demolition is Wahhabism * the austere state faith that the House of Saud brought with it when Ibn Saud conquered the Arabian peninsula in the 1920s.

The Wahhabis live in fanatical fear that places of historical or religious interest could give rise to alternative forms of pilgrimage or worship. Their obsession with combating idolatry has seen them flatten all evidence of a past that does not agree with their interpretation of Islam.

Irfan Ahmed al-Alawi, the chairman of the Islamic Heritage Foundation, set up to help protect the holy sites, says the case of the grave of Amina bint Wahb, the mother of the Prophet, found in 1998, is typical of what has happened. "It was bulldozed in Abwa and gasoline was poured on it. Even though thousands of petitions throughout the Muslim world were sent, nothing could stop this action."

Today there are fewer than 20 structures remaining in Mecca that date back to the time of the Prophet 1,400 years ago. The litany of this lost history includes the house of Khadijah, the wife of the Prophet, demolished to make way for public lavatories; the house of Abu Bakr, the Prophet's companion, now the site of the local Hilton hotel; the house of Ali-Oraid, the grandson of the Prophet, and the Mosque of abu-Qubais, now the location of the King's palace in Mecca.

Yet the same oil-rich dynasty that pumped money into the Taliban regime as they blew up the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan six years ago has so far avoided international criticism for similar acts of vandalism at home. Mai Yamani, author of The Cradle of Islam, said it was time for other Muslim governments to ignore the al-Sauds' oil wealth and clout and speak out. " What is alarming about this is that the world doesn't question the al-Sauds' custodianship of Islam's two holy places. These are the sites that are of such importance to over one billion Muslims and yet their destruction is being ignored," she said. "When the Prophet was insulted by Danish cartoonists thousands of people went into the streets to protest. The sites related to the Prophet are part of their heritage and religion but we see no concern from Muslims."


Lay people, and in some cases even US senators could be forgiven for thinking that the House of Saud has been the guardian of the two holy places for time immemorial. In fact, it is only 80 years since the tribal chieftain Ibn Saud occupied Mecca and Medina. The House of Saud has been bound to Wahhabism since the 18th century religious reformer Mohamed Ibn Abdul-Wahab signed a pact with Mohammed bin Saud in 1744. Wahab's warrior zealots helped to conquer a kingdom for the tribal chieftains. The House of Saud got its wealth and power, and the clerics got the vehicle of state they needed to spread their fundamentalist ideology around the world. The ruler of this fledgling kingdom needed the legitimacy afforded by declaring himself " custodian of the two holy places".

But that legitimacy has come at an enormous price for the diversity of Muslims who look to Mecca for guidance. Once in charge, the Wahhabists wasted little time in censoring the Haj. As early as 1929, Egyptian pilgrims were refused permission to celebrate the colourful Mahmal rites and more than 30 were killed. At the time Egypt severed diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia. Few governments have stood up to them since.

Instead, the homogenisation of Islam's holiest sites was allowed to accelerate into a demolition campaign that now threatens the birthplace of the Prophet itself. The site survived the early reign of Ibn Saud 50 years ago when the architect for the planned library persuaded the absolute ruler to allow him to preserve the remains under the new structure. Saudi authorities now plan to "update" the site with a car park that would mean concreting over the remains.

"The al-Sauds need to rein in the Wahhabists now," warns Dr Yamani. "Mecca used to be a symbol of Muslim diversity and it needs to be again." But with oil prices and profits, at record highs, there is little sign the House of Saud is listening.

Sami Angawi, a Hijazi architect who has devoted his life to a largely doomed effort to preserve what remains of the history of the world's greatest pilgrimage sites, said that the final farewell to Mecca was imminent. " What we are witnessing are the last days of Mecca and Medina."


Mecca's skyline

Giant cranes and half-constructed skyscrapers tower over the Grand Mosque in Mecca. Six new property developments, including the Bin Laden group's Zam Zam Tower, are transforming the character of Islam's holiest city

ISLAMIC HERITAGE FOUNDATION

Mountain of light

The mountain of light, or al-Nour, is next in the Wahhabis' sights. Home to the Hira'a cave, it was here that the Prophet is said to have received the first verses of the Koran. Hardline clerics want it destroyed to stop pilgrims visiting. At the foot of the hill there is a Wahhabi fatwa: " The Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) did not permit us to climb on to this hill, not to pray here, not to touch stones, and tie knots on trees..."

ISLAMIC HERITAGE FOUNDATION

The Prophet's wife's grave

The ruins in the foreground are the remains of the grave of the Prophet's wife, Al Baqi, destroyed in the 1950s. The mutawi religious police are present night and day to prevent anyone placing flowers on the site, or even praying in the proximity of the graves

THE ISLAMIC HERITAGE FOUNDATION

Al Oraid Mosque

The 1,200-year-old mosque, site of the grave of the Prophet's grandson al-Oraid, is seen here being dynamited. Gathered around the site are Saudi religious police with their distinctive red scarves, who appear to be celebrating

THE ISLAMIC HERITAGE FOUNDATION
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2007, 09:53 PM   #671
ZZ-II
I love Skyscrapers
 
ZZ-II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Ingolstadt in Bavaria
Posts: 33,502
Likes (Received): 6525

wow, thx DreaM1891!! the hotel tower is already a few floors tall
ZZ-II no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2007, 10:12 PM   #672
friendsofthecity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,929
Likes (Received): 690

As an interesting tid-bit, the minaret in the great mosque of Damascus (one of the ones that might actually be the first) was formerly a bell tower (the thing was previously a cathedral, but became a masjid after a majority of the people became Muslim, and so the Muslims swapped multiple smaller pieces of land to house several churches, for the cathedral). The guys used to walk the streets making the call for prayer, and upon seeing the bell tower, used their intellects and thought that might be a better way to do it. This actually demonstrates how Islamic architecture has always been one where there has been evolution, while the symbols and themes of the past are maintained.

While some people will say Islamic architecture means "minaret, dome, etc.", those are actually NOT the hallmarks. The themes (which then are interpreted and presented with creativity and respect for context) include things like balance, embedding of knowledge (eg by way of geometry), being appropriate to location, being reflective of context and the environment, etc. Some things that actually claim to be Islamic architecture (because they have a dome and/or a minaret) are actually far from it, as they are often disrespecting of context and environment.

Along the same lines, here is a masjid in China (Huajuexiang Mosque in Xian - present structure erected in 1392, replacing an earlier one that is though to have been built in the 7th century!) built using the themes of Islamic


First and foremost, I see that you are a proud person. In the world Islam is one of the youngest religion groups. Notwithstanding, minaret and dome have been in existence with the persians culture which need not be over-emphasized here.

Take care of yourself!
friendsofthecity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2007, 10:21 PM   #673
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by friendsofthecity View Post
First and foremost, I see that you are a proud person. In the world Islam is one of the youngest religion groups. Notwithstanding, minaret and dome have been in existence with the persians culture which need not be over-emphasized here.
You've made an excellent point, which reinforces some of my sentiments. Primarily, that we should not confuse religious traditions with cultural ones. It actually demonstrates the diversity within the world of Islam! Persian architecture is some of the most spectacular. Most of the world has only seen it in India (Taj Mahal being the most famous), but there are amazing examples in Iran, Afghanistan (Herat), Uzbekistan (Samarkand, Bukhara), and other regions where the Persians left their mark. Diversity, all of the civilisations that have impacted and have been impacted by Islam, has resulted in a strength and richness, which is important to highlight and be proud of.
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2007, 10:29 PM   #674
zee
Jelly Bean!!
 
zee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: B'burn/ L'pool
Posts: 2,438
Likes (Received): 17

fantastic article walli.

im 110% against this development and all the other develpments the arab are planning.

they may aswell just destory Al-Haram Mosque and Masjid Nabwi.

Last edited by zee; August 31st, 2007 at 06:56 PM. Reason: pissed people off!
zee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2007, 10:45 PM   #675
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeshanney View Post
fantastic article walli.

im 110% against this development and all the other develpments the arab wankers are planning. they deserve the worst possible death.

they may aswell just destory Al-Haram Mosque and Masjid Nabwi.
Hmmm ... the death comment is going too far (sounds more akin to wahabi words my friend). While calling a spade a spade, always remain patient!

A wise Muslim leader once said:
"No belief is like modesty and patience, no attainment is like humility, no honour is like knowledge, no power is like forbearance, and no support is more reliable than consultation"
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2007, 03:28 AM   #676
Riyadhi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,966
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeshanney View Post
fantastic article walli.

im 110% against this development and all the other develpments the arab wankers are planning. they deserve the worst possible death.

they may aswell just destory Al-Haram Mosque and Masjid Nabwi.
let me tell you something, the area around the mosque is going to be a skyscrapers park whether you like it or not . My advice to you is to stop whining and get a life!
Riyadhi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2007, 04:58 AM   #677
Rody69
Registered User
 
Rody69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jeddah-London
Posts: 2,404
Likes (Received): 1918

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeshanney View Post
fantastic article walli.

im 110% against this development and all the other develpments the arab wankers are planning. they deserve the worst possible death.

they may aswell just destory Al-Haram Mosque and Masjid Nabwi.
Hmmmmmmm maybe the Arabs are wankers...but do you know why??
because they're watching your mom!!
about the death story I cracked my self...it looks as if the arabs are your worst nightmares!!maybe you should read something about "Dramatic ways to kill" to bring your dream to reality."but it still dream"
just small advice from me:
don't try ever to insult anyone by his ethnicity,because this just gonna prove one thing,that you're such a loser (Im trying to be polite with you because you seem to be under age)
finally:
If you don't like arabs,so why you're in Dubai?? or maybe it's your "mother land", just like "Bradford" for you guyz
Rody69 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2007, 07:14 AM   #678
smussuw
Patriotic Emirati
 
smussuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,296
Likes (Received): 533

the article doesn't make sense

There is nothing in Islam the prevents building skyscrapers near the Kaaba or Shadowing it.
smussuw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2007, 07:27 AM   #679
Hollie Maea
Registered User
 
Hollie Maea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,403
Likes (Received): 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by smussuw View Post
the article doesn't make sense

There is nothing in Islam the prevents building skyscrapers near the Kaaba or Shadowing it.
Exactly. Muslims have NEVER been ashamed of big and great architecture. The prohibition against creating idols prevented the Islam world from producing paintings, and so their artistic endeavors were focused on buildings and architecture, and they created some of the best in the world. Are worshipers so stupid that they will forget that the Kaaba is holy when they see this building next to it? I don't think so.
If you think this building is ugly, fine. Personal tastes can't be disputed. But the argument that this building shouldn't be built next to a holy spot I think is more of a western argument.
Hollie Maea no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2007, 07:29 AM   #680
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by smussuw View Post
the article doesn't make sense

There is nothing in Islam the prevents building skyscrapers near the Kaaba or Shadowing it.
I'm not sure if you've really understood the depth of the article, or if you've reviewed all the examples that have been provided in it. While I'm surprised that you are comfortable with overshadowing the Kaaba, that is not the main point of the article.

Thank-you for highlighting the article once again. It is perhaps an opportune time to suggest all to go back and read it once more.

---
"No belief is like modesty and patience, no attainment is like humility, no honour is like knowledge, no power is like forbearance, and no support is more reliable than consultation"
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
abraj al bait, saudi arabia

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu