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Old September 17th, 2007, 08:03 PM   #761
walli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaM1981 View Post
Even if the prices are very high there still the income goes for the maintenance of the holy mosques.
Actually, that is not true. The bylaws specifically allow sub-letting, and as such, business people and 'royal family' have picked up most of the spaces available to date, and then are sub-letting / renting and massively higher prices (not just the very high prices already set by the builders). As such, a vast majority of the profits are going to the hands of these investors and 'royal family' and not into the Kaaba endowment.

In addition, irrespective of the cost of land in Saudi, the fact that these are so expensive and so close to the Kaaba reinforce a caste system. Most of the visitors cannot even hope to be allowed into the lobbies as they cannot afford such things. The whole argument of accommodating the visitors is a crock.
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Old September 17th, 2007, 08:19 PM   #762
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Monstrosity prices

So that is about $7,200 for one week of a 33sq metre studio during low season (50 degrees Celsius), and about $187,000 for one month during the month of the hajj. These are the official 'cheap' prices for the poor pilgrims. Most of the leases have been picked up and are being sub-let at even higher prices!

-----
http://www.guardian.co.uk/saudi/stor...947126,00.html

excerpts:
"Timeshare, a concept more usually associated with Torremolinos and the Algarve, has spread to Mecca and divided opinion in the Muslim world. Built by the Binladin Group, the construction firm founded by Mohammed bin Laden, the father of Osama, the ZamZam tower offers five-star accommodation, a shopping centre, restaurants and a car park."

"A week's lease on a 33 sq metre studio with city views costs £3,600 in low season. A studio with views of the House of Allah, the Ka'bah, costs £93,500 to lease during the month of hajj."

"Talal Mahmood Malik is chief executive of Alpha1Estates, which is selling timeshares for the 1,240 suites to Muslims in the UK and Europe. In the company brochure, prospective buyers are told they can expect an average rental return of between 10% and 15% a year."

Talal Mahmood Malik is chief executive of Alpha1Estates, which is selling timeshares for the 1,240 suites to Muslims in the UK and Europe. In the company brochure, prospective buyers are told they can expect an average rental return of between 10% and 15% a year.

-----

http://tehranifaisal.blogspot.com/20...1_archive.html
Opponents say the skyscraper and its money-spinning potential goes against the spirit of hajj, a pilgrimage founded on purity, equality and simplicity.

Saudi authorities will use the initial revenue to maintain the holy site, but there is nothing to stop homeowners from selling or subleasing their timeshare for inflated prices. Irfan Ahmed al-Alawi, a historian and co-chair of the Islamic Heritage Foundation, set up to protect sites of cultural and historical interest in Mecca, said: "This timeshare is the exploitation and commercialisation of a holy city.

-----
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Old September 17th, 2007, 08:24 PM   #763
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Making a quick buck off the Kaaba

An example of what actually happens. Want to rent a 38 sqm space in the Zam Zam (double bed + sofa bed) for 20th Ramadan to 1st Shawwal? That will be $16,000 per day, with only block bookings accepted - so you'd best have $200K for the hotel space alone! Who gets the profit? The investor or royal who purchased the place.

-----
http://www.alkhateeb.com/Arabic_Main_Page.htm#English
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Old September 17th, 2007, 08:25 PM   #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaeus View Post
But take a look at the architecture and design of the building itself.
It looks like a casino!

Last edited by walli; September 17th, 2007 at 09:06 PM.
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Old September 17th, 2007, 08:29 PM   #765
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Is that the ancient Ottoman castle that was demolished in order to make some space for this building? Sorry but this is simply backward! Beside this it doesn't simply fit next to such a holy place!

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Old September 17th, 2007, 09:10 PM   #766
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In what way it does/doesn't fit a holy place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealVooDoo View Post

Did you mean one week every 23 years?
One week, every year, for 23 years.
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Old September 17th, 2007, 09:14 PM   #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smussuw View Post
In what way it does/doesn't fit a holy place.


One week, every year, for 23 years.
Actually - the price I showed (I had a link confirming) provided it for only one single week for a price of $7,200 in low season. Not one week for 23 years.
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Old September 17th, 2007, 09:16 PM   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smussuw View Post
In what way it does/doesn't fit a holy place.
Because it looks like a casino! The only way it fits is if you worship money!

Here is the irony. Do all you folks know why all the pilgrims where the same clothing during hajj? It is so there is no discrimination between rich and poor, or the different cultures.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sun&sun View Post
Is that the ancient Ottoman castle that was demolished in order to make some space for this building? Sorry but this is simply backward! Beside this it doesn't simply fit next to such a holy place!

They demolished it to build the towers? Damn, as a european, I cannot imagine such a thing happening.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 01:40 AM   #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krom View Post
They demolished it to build the towers? Damn, as a european, I cannot imagine such a thing happening.
Yeah exactly - have a look at post 670 ...
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=670

The people opposed to this project have various issues with it, with one of the most fundamental being the destruction of items of irreplaceable historical importance (and in cases, world importance and not just for the region).

I have previously given the example of the large Buddha statues in Afghanistan as a parallel, not necessarily to this specific project, but the Saudis have been destroying many structures over a millenia old. This Bin Laden project is atrocious within this context. It is interesting that the funding for this is actually the same as that which was funding the other Bin Laden - the wahabi theocracy!

excerpt from the article quoted in post 670:

Today there are fewer than 20 structures remaining in Mecca that date back to the time of the Prophet 1,400 years ago. The litany of this lost history includes the house of Khadijah, the wife of the Prophet, demolished to make way for public lavatories; the house of Abu Bakr, the Prophet's companion, now the site of the local Hilton hotel; the house of Ali-Oraid, the grandson of the Prophet, and the Mosque of abu-Qubais, now the location of the King's palace in Mecca.

Yet the same oil-rich dynasty that pumped money into the Taliban regime as they blew up the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan six years ago has so far avoided international criticism for similar acts of vandalism at home. Mai Yamani, author of The Cradle of Islam, said it was time for other Muslim governments to ignore the al-Sauds' oil wealth and clout and speak out. " What is alarming about this is that the world doesn't question the al-Sauds' custodianship of Islam's two holy places. These are the sites that are of such importance to over one billion Muslims and yet their destruction is being ignored," she said. "When the Prophet was insulted by Danish cartoonists thousands of people went into the streets to protest. The sites related to the Prophet are part of their heritage and religion but we see no concern from Muslims."
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Old September 18th, 2007, 03:11 AM   #771
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walli, you are spamming this thread... why dont' you take your polictical/religous comments somewhere else?
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Old September 18th, 2007, 03:21 AM   #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
walli, you are spamming this thread... why dont' you take your polictical/religous comments somewhere else?
I don't think he's spamming at all. And his information hardly touches on religion. I think he's giving some very interesting information about the financial nature of this project and pointing out the fact that some significant historical structures have been demolished to make way for what is, in effect, the most hideous building I have ever seen in my life. All seems quite relevant.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 12:44 PM   #773
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Wali, Please do not talk about this project if you do not know details.

Royal family and other are renting there and even bought some studios and complete floors for 25 years only.

The income of this project goes to saudi binladin group cause they built the project from their own money and the gov. just provided them the land. That is why they deserve the income for 25 years then any income AFTER 25 YEARS will be for the maintenance of the holy mosque inshallah.

Saudi Binladin Group sold two towers to some kuwaiti investors (ZamZam Tower & Hajar) for 25 years then again the income will go to the gov. for maintenance.

Upto now this project is not an endowment and you can only judge it after 25 years not now since it is just an investment for Saudi Binladin Group for the next 25 years.

I think what I said should stop this useless arguement about prices and royal family blah blah blah.

Again I am repeating, It is investment for Saudi Binladin Group for the next 25 years inshaa Allah so please do not start judging.

The gov. paid NOTHING for this project till now except the land sure and that is why it will be endowment.

The Binladin Group deserves to get back all the expenses within next 25 years and to get high income too of it since this project is costing Saudi Binladin Group 4$ billion.
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Last edited by DreaM1981; September 18th, 2007 at 12:56 PM.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 02:23 PM   #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggers_jr View Post
I don't think he's spamming at all. And his information hardly touches on religion. I think he's giving some very interesting information about the financial nature of this project and pointing out the fact that some significant historical structures have been demolished to make way for what is, in effect, the most hideous building I have ever seen in my life. All seems quite relevant.
Walli is indeed spamming this thread. He is spreading his hatred of the Saudi regime in this relegion pointing out worthless facts this project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
Yeah exactly - have a look at post 670 ...
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=670

The people opposed to this project have various issues with it, with one of the most fundamental being the destruction of items of irreplaceable historical importance (and in cases, world importance and not just for the region).

I have previously given the example of the large Buddha statues in Afghanistan as a parallel, not necessarily to this specific project, but the Saudis have been destroying many structures over a millenia old. This Bin Laden project is atrocious within this context. It is interesting that the funding for this is actually the same as that which was funding the other Bin Laden - the wahabi theocracy!

excerpt from the article quoted in post 670:

Today there are fewer than 20 structures remaining in Mecca that date back to the time of the Prophet 1,400 years ago. The litany of this lost history includes the house of Khadijah, the wife of the Prophet, demolished to make way for public lavatories; the house of Abu Bakr, the Prophet's companion, now the site of the local Hilton hotel; the house of Ali-Oraid, the grandson of the Prophet, and the Mosque of abu-Qubais, now the location of the King's palace in Mecca.

Yet the same oil-rich dynasty that pumped money into the Taliban regime as they blew up the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan six years ago has so far avoided international criticism for similar acts of vandalism at home. Mai Yamani, author of The Cradle of Islam, said it was time for other Muslim governments to ignore the al-Sauds' oil wealth and clout and speak out. " What is alarming about this is that the world doesn't question the al-Sauds' custodianship of Islam's two holy places. These are the sites that are of such importance to over one billion Muslims and yet their destruction is being ignored," she said. "When the Prophet was insulted by Danish cartoonists thousands of people went into the streets to protest. The sites related to the Prophet are part of their heritage and religion but we see no concern from Muslims."
True, the Saudi regime demolsihed many historical places, BUT the land outside the Kaaba is very limited and building such large buildings are needed in time.

What the Saudi government did to the pilgrims--to God's guests-- is something that NO other country can AND WILL DO all this to its people. THe Holy Mosque has never been bigger in its LONG history and the HAJJ shrines that Muslims visit to perform the Hajj has been expanded thousands of times.The Stone throwing ritual is now being performed on a three story place where in the past it used to be at ground level!

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
Because it looks like a casino! The only way it fits is if you worship money!

Here is the irony. Do all you folks know why all the pilgrims where the same clothing during hajj? It is so there is no discrimination between rich and poor, or the different cultures.
God never forbid people from spending their money to live in luxury. Islam is a lenient relegion. If you have money, you are allowed to live in 5 star hotels if you want to. Weather this building looks like a Casino or not, it is a sacred building, containg an extention of the Holy Mosque and Minaret as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
walli, you are spamming this thread... why dont' you take your polictical/religous comments somewhere else?
Walli is trying to spread anti-Saudi propoganda. He even posted CRAP about Bin Laden Construction company and related it to Osama. THe BinLaden Company is one of the world's largest construction companies and simply relating to Osama in any way or mentioning Osama when mentioning the company is simply stupid and childish.

So, I suggest take your WORTHLESS crap out of here.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 03:37 PM   #775
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It's almost like demolishing London Tower to build some apartments for city workers. It's insane to demolish such a historic building, but whatever if that's the way you roll, you will probably regret it one day.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 05:49 PM   #776
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I respect Walli's opinion, but it's probably not necessary to rehash this stuff over and over.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 07:46 PM   #777
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wow i take bcak what I said that this is great project
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Old September 18th, 2007, 09:34 PM   #778
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OMG! I can't believe that castle was demolished. And I can't believe it will be replaced by such an horrible thing. Shame on them!
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Old September 18th, 2007, 10:36 PM   #779
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shame is the only word we can say...
binladin family is building this? they can ask some relative...to knock down this monster, they know how can do it
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Old September 19th, 2007, 12:15 AM   #780
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Here are a sample of stories about the debate regarding the Bin Laden demolition of the castle:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/fort-j28.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1748711.stm
http://web.deu.edu.tr/atiksu/ana15/ana15.html
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