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Old October 9th, 2011, 03:17 AM   #10021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mesch View Post
That was directed at you more than anybody else because you kept repeating the same (refuted) examples over and over again.

The differences separating MSA from the language(s) spoken on the street and used for everyday life are big enough for the so-called dialects to be considered independent languages. A fact many linguists have acknowledged and advocated as early as the 18th century.
Well spoken dialects are NOT considered separate languages and until they become so (which is never gonna happen) your argument about arabic being a dead language doesn't hold any water. Even Fusha arabic is far from being dead given the extent of its usage today. Actually arab societies do not accept dialects as a formal language, Some nationalist christians made an "egyptian language section" in wikipedia and its a total joke, the owner of OTV sattelite chanel (a christian businessman) initianlly made the newscast in his channel in egyptian dialect but it failed miserably and he had to swith back to Fusha arabic.

I think you are also underestiming the religious and national significance of arabic language which helped greatly in its preservation throughout the centuries and prevented its extinction or splitting like all the rest of ancient languages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mesch View Post
There is more a lexical and grammatical difference between Gusmanji and Egyptian Arabic or Moroccan and Lebanese Arabic than there is between, say, Italian and Spanish or even Italian and French.
Italian and french are mutually incomprehensible unlike most arabic dialects.
You wouldn't have egyptian, syrian, sudanese etc teachers in your school if arabic dialects where that different

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Originally Posted by Mesch View Post
As for the Koran’s language, the differences existing at the time were stark enough for the Koran to be written in seven different dialects. As a descendant of Huthail, I certainly know that the language in which the Koran was written and is known for today is a lot different than the language of my ancestors.

Yet still, one can easily confirm that there is an even bigger gap between today’s Arabic dialects than there ever was between the dialects at the time of the Prophet.
How do you know that? to my knowledge Yemeni dialect by that time was quite different From Quraish's dialect.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:36 AM   #10022
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:49 AM   #10023
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:53 AM   #10024
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Old October 9th, 2011, 03:43 PM   #10025
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Old October 9th, 2011, 04:11 PM   #10026
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Old October 10th, 2011, 07:37 PM   #10027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Kimo View Post
Well spoken dialects are NOT considered separate languages and until they become so (which is never gonna happen) your argument about arabic being a dead language doesn't hold any water. Even Fusha arabic is far from being dead given the extent of its usage today.
I never said Arabic was a dead language; I said that about MSA/Fus’ha and according to the accepted definition, it is – regardless of how “touchy” you or others may feel about it.

The time’s come when people have to face and accept the fact that 7th century Arabic is no longer with us but has evolved into many different yet related languages, the same way Latin gave birth to modern-day Romance languages.


Quote:
Actually arab societies do not accept dialects as a formal language, Some nationalist christians made an "egyptian language section" in wikipedia and its a total joke, the owner of OTV sattelite chanel (a christian businessman) initianlly made the newscast in his channel in egyptian dialect but it failed miserably and he had to swith back to Fusha arabic.

I think you are also underestiming the religious and national significance of arabic language which helped greatly in its preservation throughout the centuries and prevented its extinction or splitting like all the rest of ancient languages.
The degree to which the public accepts or does not accept the fact that Fus’ha is a dead language is irrelevant to the discussion. Similar examples to the ones you stated can be found in a lot of other languages (Chilean Spanish comes to mind).

Besides, the usage of MSA is confined to one field (written media/News) unlike local dialects which dominate the Popular culture(s) in all other respects.


Quote:
Italian and french are mutually incomprehensible unlike most arabic dialects.
You wouldn't have egyptian, syrian, sudanese etc teachers in your school if arabic dialects where that different
While my example of Italian and French may have not been the most fitting, it is indeed the case that many Arabic dialects are mutually unintelligible.

You’re underestimating the role that the Egyptian and Levantine domination over the Arabic media has had in making those dialects comprehensible for Arabians.
The same cannot be said about the local dialects of Arabia which did not enjoy the same degree of exposure and it was evident that that was the case when the Egyptian teachers I had in school were baffled everytime we, the students, switched back to our local dialect. Maghribien dialects also suffer a similar situation.


Quote:
How do you know that? to my knowledge Yemeni dialect by that time was quite different From Quraish's dialect.
The Prophet was reportedly able to converse in Yemeni Arabic without having any prior knowledge of the dialect.
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Last edited by Mesch; October 10th, 2011 at 07:44 PM.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 09:36 PM   #10028
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I'm really enjoying the debate here at Dialectscrapercity.com
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Old October 11th, 2011, 06:00 AM   #10029
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Old October 11th, 2011, 08:51 AM   #10030
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I'm really enjoying the debate here at Dialectscrapercity.com
I would be the first to sign up if that were a real forum.
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Old October 11th, 2011, 01:07 PM   #10031
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Quote:
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I'm really enjoying the debate here at Dialectscrapercity.com
Come on, I'm enjoying it. Let them debate until one gives up.

@mesch: sign up? You'd be the administartor
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Old October 11th, 2011, 01:28 PM   #10032
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Fusha arabic is not dead, we use it every day when we read the paper and listen to the news
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Old October 11th, 2011, 02:01 PM   #10033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makkawi.Pk View Post
Come on, I'm enjoying it. Let them debate until one gives up.

@mesch: sign up? You'd be the administartor
basically they are debating over an English word (dead language). the cause of the debate is because they don't agree on a definition of "dead language"

Mesch's definition is any language (and here he means Fus'ha dialect) that has no native speaker, is a dead language.

his opponent(s) states that even though there is no native speaker of Fus'ha, it is so widely used that it cannot be considered a dead language. may be in their view a dead language is a language that is no longer used, or is only found in old books.

if and when they agree on the definition of "dead language" the debate will be over.
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Old October 11th, 2011, 06:47 PM   #10034
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Old October 11th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #10035
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edit: problem solve

Last edited by Roukaya19; October 11th, 2011 at 09:15 PM.
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Old October 11th, 2011, 09:05 PM   #10036
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scroll down to the bottom of the page, there you can find on the left side of the page a dropdown arrow, written "Espanol" click it and select English.
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Old October 11th, 2011, 09:14 PM   #10037
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scroll down to the bottom of the page, there you can find on the left side of the page a dropdown arrow, written "Espanol" click it and select English.
Thanks bro
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Old October 11th, 2011, 09:50 PM   #10038
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Old October 12th, 2011, 12:22 AM   #10039
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this construction is way much impressive than the burj dubai and other classic and linear skyscrapers .

just amazing .

and what say about the location near the qiblah ...
maybe the most impressive place in the world to my opinion
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Old October 12th, 2011, 01:13 AM   #10040
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because the constructer (binladin group) is better and bigger than burj khalifa's constructer (emaar)

and more ...

binladin group is going to start building the new world's tallest building soon ..
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