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Old November 17th, 2007, 10:48 PM   #1301
walli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaM1981 View Post
Yes there are securities there to keep out those that do not fit into the desired customer profile but it is allowed for all pilgrimes for sure.
Just wanted to flush this out a bit more ...

I think what you have said is that the mall is not limited to people who are staying in the complex, rather it is open to anyone who meets a certain profile. Can you describe for us that 'desired customer profile'? Let's actually turn the question around and ask, which 'pilgrimes' will not be allowed? Is there something published, or is it something the security will have discretion over? What will be security's guidance?

One thing I hope the Saudi posters understand is, the concept of door guarding security at a mall is not a concept most people are used to. This is why the questions. Additionally, remember that this project has been framed as one to 'serve the pilgrims', a noble concept but not straight forward in implementation, particularly if a vast majority don't meet 'the profile'.

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Originally Posted by DreaM1981 View Post
It has most of international brands and sure they are expensive enough to keep poor people and most of pilgrimes out of it.
I don't understand this concept. Again, it is foreign to me and likely many of the people reading this forum. Why would the cost of merchandise in a store keep people from entering an air conditioned mall, when it is 45 degrees Celsius outside? Also, this statement suggests that segregation will be strictly on assessed disposable income. Is that correct? How will a person who cannot afford Louis Vetton get inside to go to the observation deck (which as as been stated before, is open to the entire public)? How will disposable income assessments take place during Hajj when everyone shaves their heads and wears the same type of cloth? Lastly, what proportion of the visitors will this project actually cater to directly? I'm not talking accommodations, but the mall and other services also?

Last edited by walli; November 17th, 2007 at 10:57 PM.
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Old November 18th, 2007, 12:53 AM   #1302
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I don’t think there’s a need for any kind of profiling or restrictions except in the Hajj season. Open for the whole year and close it for 10 days hajj season. Some pilgrims from certain nationalities (during the Hajj season) cannot be tolerated. They come with the intention of sleeping on the streets and parks and the mosque’s squares. I am against granting them entry to the country from the beginning but that’s another issue. If you open the mall for that kind, they would literally sleep and even camp and cook inside the mall. I think a good solution would be to have a cover charge to enter the mall for non residents. It would help filtering out the "unwashed masses" or junk customers
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Old November 18th, 2007, 02:27 AM   #1303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
Some pilgrims from certain nationalities (during the Hajj season) cannot be tolerated. They come with the intention of sleeping on the streets and parks and the mosque’s squares. I am against granting them entry to the country from the beginning ...
Wow!
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Old November 18th, 2007, 02:44 AM   #1304
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wow indeed
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Old November 18th, 2007, 03:51 AM   #1305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
Some pilgrims from certain nationalities (during the Hajj season) cannot be tolerated. They come with the intention of sleeping on the streets and parks and the mosque’s squares. I am against granting them entry to the country from the beginning but that’s another issue.
is that a saudi version of a red neck!!
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Old November 18th, 2007, 03:59 AM   #1306
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In all fairness, is it so difficult for people to argue in a civilised way?
He clearly said "that's another issue".

I sent a PM to a few people and it basically said this:

You can discuss anything you want as long as it relates to the project and is done so in a civilised way. Why are people incapable of this? If someone has an opposing opinion (and I couldn't give 2 shits what that opinion is), why can't you argue back in a respectful manner without namecalling and general shit like this.

Next time you feel like writing the word "troll" how about you read the opposing post, think about a good argument, back it up with evidence and prove them wrong. Either do this or write nothing at all.

Last edited by malec; November 18th, 2007 at 04:07 AM.
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Old November 18th, 2007, 06:40 AM   #1307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
Wow!

I bet you re suprised


really some people here are bashing saudies and arabs to proof that they are "global muslims"....

I really missed how this thread had nice updates rather than some stupied comments like realting a rape accedent to the design of the mall,
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Old November 18th, 2007, 08:14 AM   #1308
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I don't see how your comment has anything to do with this project thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malec View Post
In all fairness, is it so difficult for people to argue in a civilised way?
He clearly said "that's another issue".
Hey, all I said was "wow!". I hope you're not upset with my questions that led to Riyadhi's response.

Think about it, two million people, 45 degrees Celsius outside and you've got an air conditioned mall there. How do you work it? You can't exactly close it, as you've actually built it primarily for the people visiting for the Hajj (that is my understanding of the objectives). This is a legitimate line of discussion for a project.

I was absolutely surprised by how the answer was articulated. I did figure there might be some element in the reply that would be a source of debate, but this was somewhat over the top. Not just the 'that's another issue' statement, but the two sentences before that also (which were in response to the legit questions).
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Old November 18th, 2007, 08:26 AM   #1309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-man View Post
really some people here are bashing saudies and arabs to proof that they are "global muslims"....

I really missed how this thread had nice updates rather than some stupied comments like realting a rape accedent to the design of the mall,
LOL @ global muslims

Seriously, it was obvious that he meant to bash Saudi Arabia with such comment. Relating it with the project was a pathetic attempt to cover his intention.
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Old November 18th, 2007, 10:05 AM   #1310
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@Walli, this is not the first mall to be built in Saudi Arabia, or even Makkah for that matter. Makkah, believe it or not, is more liberal in gender segregation in malls than Riyadh or other cities. Gender segregation is NOT a design issue to be taken into consideration in this case, except for public restrooms for obvious reasons. So no, these laws DO NOT have impacts on the design of this specific mall. There is another mall close-by, the Hilton Mall, and as you can clearly see from that example, there is no segregation. Please research before posting such comments.
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Old November 18th, 2007, 01:16 PM   #1311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halawala View Post
Makkah, believe it or not, is more liberal in gender segregation in malls than Riyadh or other cities. Gender segregation is NOT a design issue to be taken into consideration in this case, except for public restrooms for obvious reasons.
Interesting - thank-you!

Surprising that the more 'holy' city would actually be more liberal with respect to gender segregation. A positive thing in my eyes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halawala View Post
Please research before posting such comments.
Don't know why you stated this at the end. I wasn't posting inaccurate statements, rather, I was asking legitimate questions. No need for such jabs. What may seem obvious to you may not be obvious to me or others who do not live in the region.

Last edited by walli; November 18th, 2007 at 02:54 PM.
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Old November 18th, 2007, 01:51 PM   #1312
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Walli all your posts try to Mask your hate for the Saudi's, personally i think your full of b.s. Stop being fake.
We all know your agenda stop running around the bush.
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Old November 18th, 2007, 02:00 PM   #1313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UofT* View Post
Walli all your posts try to Mask your hate for the Saudi's, personally i think your full of b.s. Stop being fake.
We all know your agenda stop running around the bush.
How about you provide some proof before making these ridiculous claims. Does nobody read the stuff I post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smussuw View Post
LOL @ global muslims

Seriously, it was obvious that he meant to bash Saudi Arabia with such comment. Relating it with the project was a pathetic attempt to cover his intention.
Maybe but where is the proof?
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Old November 18th, 2007, 02:55 PM   #1314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malec View Post
How about you provide some proof before making these ridiculous claims. Does nobody read the stuff I post?


Maybe but where is the proof?
What motivates him to click on the thread title?

Clearly he doesn't like the project? What drives him? And its not like he posts every now and then its quite persistent.

I know the common anti-Saudi arguments and agenda's out there and almost all of his posts have hinted at that. You may not be aware of it but there are a lot of muslims out there that just despise the Saudi's for the sect of Islam that they follow. Walli is one of them.

Mind you Malec a lot of his posts have been condescending, But most muslims that post on this thread know that Walli is religiously motivated when he just bashes the project. Lets not forget some of his older posts.
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Old November 18th, 2007, 05:17 PM   #1315
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Update: The work on the tent of Al-Marwa tower has been started to be finished after 3 months inshallah (God willing).

The 4 tents should be completed next year inshallah (God willing), Which means that the work on other two tents will start after this Hajj since 1 is already completed and work already started on the 2nd one.

About allowing the millions of pilgrimes to go inside the mall, Actually there are people who never can be allowed there since they sleep and beg people to pay for them and about the number, Securities checks if there is space or not and if there is no space, they do not allow more people to go inside. This is well known at Hajj times.
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Old November 18th, 2007, 05:20 PM   #1316
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I know what you mean, and LIVED THROUGH IT when I went to the Hajj 2 years ago. People were cooking in the mall with small gas stoves. Seriously though, they should ban certain people from going in the mall. Not to mention the BEGGARS! OMG!
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Old November 18th, 2007, 06:15 PM   #1317
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Okay, now we resolved the issue of segregation and beggars. Now what about hatred idiots? Don't you guys think that the design of the building should take that into account as a security matter? I mean shouldn't there be elevators for idiots that take them some sort of highly secured floors? We all know there are many of them out there and I don’t think a “no idiots” sign will be enough to keep them out because they are just idiots!

The security of such building is certainly a big issue and we would not want to leave it unmoderated. How do we keep out hatred idiots from Abraj Al-Bait?
What do you think DreaM? Do you think there's a way to control them?

Last edited by Riyadhi; November 18th, 2007 at 06:30 PM.
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Old November 18th, 2007, 06:28 PM   #1318
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I believe that it is a difficult issue to keep them out specially cause there are many idiots nowadays who hate such projects and they go there to cause troubles with sick characters full of hate toward such project and sometimes such country.

Anyway for your information, There is VIP lobby which is secured with access cards and elevators never stop at any floor while there is someone inside it till he reachs the level he needs to secure the VIP person from being stopped at any floor.

No keys in this project, It has access cards only plus there are many CCTV cameras everywhere for security.
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Old November 18th, 2007, 09:56 PM   #1319
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plzzzzzzzzzzz
ignore the idiots
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Old November 19th, 2007, 01:45 AM   #1320
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Guys - I'm really trying to keep the discussion on the topic, IE this project. I'm not sure why people are having issues. I'm even triple reading my posts, to ensure I'm on topic. In response, I generally get three or four posts that have nothing to do with the thread, which themselves are full of accusations!

Now getting back to the project ...

I'm wondering if there were any other thoughts on the ceiling treatment DreaM1981 brought up? DreaM1981 wasn't too fond of the treatments, while I saw then as reasonable and efficient.

Refer to post #1261 (point #3) for DreaM1981's initial concerns:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=1261

Refer to my post #1285 in response:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=1285
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