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Old November 19th, 2007, 01:54 AM   #1321
drmadham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halawala View Post
Makkah, believe it or not, is more liberal in gender segregation in malls than Riyadh or other cities. Gender segregation is NOT a design issue to be taken into consideration in this case, except for public restrooms for obvious reasons.
I heard there was talk about the mutawas wanting to segregate worshippers inside the Haram. (men and women pray somewhat together there)

Now talk about stupid.
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Old November 19th, 2007, 04:09 AM   #1322
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I want to talk about Al-Burj

Your posts are often as relevant to topic as if someone posted in the Freedom Tower thread about how hired security killed innocent civilians in Iraq which is a War the USA is involved in because of a series of events which included the destruction of the Twin Towers which is the site the Freedom Tower is being built on...

_________________________________________________________________


Anyway, back on topic... Building techniques and acceptable presentation standards vary between the Middle East and some Western countries. I would like to hear from more people based both in Mecca and in the Middle East as to the design and finishings of this project. Im not seeking your opinion on the state of relations between the Saudis and the USA, nor is this an invitation to bash this project and the people/country building it!!

Im simply looking to gain some cultural understanding about this project and whether the decisions being made are based on.
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Old November 19th, 2007, 01:05 PM   #1323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmadham View Post
I heard there was talk about the mutawas wanting to segregate worshippers inside the Haram. (men and women pray somewhat together there)

Now talk about stupid.
That was for protection of women. I totally agree with this opinion since women are suffering being squeezed by other men even if the men have no bad intention (which is not guaranted), still we need to protect the women and to keep one separate place for them to feel free to worship Allah instead of wasting the time to look around and be far from men as much she can to do not be touched.

One more thing, Men are suffering to protect their women there and they have to work behind them as close they can to protect them from any man.

Sure men do not go there for flirting but who cares if the one who touched his woman is a flirt or not or is it on purpose or not? we all do not want any one to touch our women in anyway.

The only disadvantage of this opinion is that woman has to leave her man to go to the upper floor and she can be lost but now there are mobiles and they can agree to meet at specified gate and so on.......
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Old November 19th, 2007, 01:14 PM   #1324
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By the way I added other two pictures in one of my old posts about mistakes have been done in that shopping mall from my own point of view.

Refer to this link please http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=1281
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Old November 19th, 2007, 01:43 PM   #1325
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What an amazingly kitcsh brut! Such a disaster that it completely ruins the skyline of The Sacred Mosque, surely there was alot of UNESCO problems building it so close!?
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Old November 19th, 2007, 05:05 PM   #1326
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I do not understand perfectly what you mean but anyway as far I understood your question, They did not have any problems with UNESCO but Turkey refused the project cause of demolishing the old castle but finally they accepted it.

I do not know if there was any agreement to change their opinion but anyway it is a fact now and the castle is demolished and the new castle is being built lol
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Old November 19th, 2007, 07:41 PM   #1327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaM1981 View Post
I do not understand perfectly what you mean
I do understand perfectly what Monkey9000 means, and I believe there are people who seem non-architecturally-motivated in closing their eyes about the patent absurdity of this project.
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Old November 19th, 2007, 07:53 PM   #1328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey9000 View Post
What an amazingly kitcsh brut! Such a disaster that it completely ruins the skyline of The Sacred Mosque, surely there was alot of UNESCO problems building it so close!?
UNESCO has no problems with it
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Old November 19th, 2007, 08:44 PM   #1329
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UNESCO is not a body that imposes itself on countries. On the contrary, sites of heritage are to be presented to UNESCO by the country of jurisdiction. To make that application, the country itself has to put in place processes and procedures to protect, research and educate the public. IF a country chooses not to pursue, UNESCO will not do anything about it. This is the primary reason why most protected sites are in Europe, and not more evenly distributed globally. In this case, nothing in Mecca or Medina is listed with UNESCO's World Heritage List.

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UNESCO has no problems with it
I don't think we can say that. While UNESCO may be frustrated with the on-goings, fact of the matter is, UNESCO has no jurisdiction.
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Old November 19th, 2007, 11:25 PM   #1330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
UNESCO is not a body that imposes itself on countries. On the contrary, sites of heritage are to be presented to UNESCO by the country of jurisdiction. To make that application, the country itself has to put in place processes and procedures to protect, research and educate the public. IF a country chooses not to pursue, UNESCO will not do anything about it. This is the primary reason why most protected sites are in Europe, and not more evenly distributed globally. In this case, nothing in Mecca or Medina is listed with UNESCO's World Heritage List.



I don't think we can say that. While UNESCO may be frustrated with the on-goings, fact of the matter is, UNESCO has no jurisdiction.

UNESCO had problems with the Afghanistan Buddhas few years ago even though the Afghans chose not to persue.

How come they did not express any concern about the stupid castle?
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Old November 19th, 2007, 11:28 PM   #1331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
How come they did not express any concern about the stupid castle?
The discussion was not about the castle. Please stay on topic.

Last edited by walli; November 20th, 2007 at 03:57 AM.
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Old November 19th, 2007, 11:30 PM   #1332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
This is about the Kaaba, not the Buddha statues.
duh
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Old November 19th, 2007, 11:49 PM   #1333
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This is useless.

When are you going to learn this thread is about the Abraj Al-Bait!?!?!?

I come to this thread to see updates and discuss the construction of this monumental project but people keep introducing their own agendas on both sides of the argument.

Everyone just quit it and stop posting in this thread unless your going to discuss the development of this tower. This is www.skyscrapercity.com, NOT a political/religious forum.

Malec, im going to ask you to lock this thread for a little while, this is nothing but a tit for tat.

Last edited by dettol; November 20th, 2007 at 12:16 AM.
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Old November 20th, 2007, 12:25 AM   #1334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dettol View Post
This is <> NOT a political/religious forum
No one is debating politics or religion. The discussion has been about the project and its context.

I'm in agreement with Monkey9000's comment below.

Last edited by walli; November 20th, 2007 at 04:00 AM.
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Old November 20th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #1335
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MMM Dettol, I don't understand what your problem with this discussion is? I believe you have misunderstood.
I've asked a question about UNESCO listings as I feel this building is infringing on the Kaaba due to it's sheer brute size.
I've learned a very useful fact about the method of UNESCO listings, and now believe perhaps the government/planners of Mecca should have considered more carefully the placing of this tower, since UNESCO had no way of affectig it.
References to other places are always relevant in a debate or conversation Dettol, Riyadhi made a very valid comment about the example in Afganistan. I do not not have the answer to his point but it is curious that they should interfere with one project but not another?
It seems a bit harsh and dominating to order a perfectly interesting public thread down due to some debate. Considering the project in question's relationship with a very very important piece of world heritage?
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Old November 20th, 2007, 12:41 AM   #1336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey9000 View Post
References to other places are always relevant in a debate or conversation Dettol, Riyadhi made a very valid comment about the example in Afganistan. I do not not have the answer to his point but it is curious that they should interfere with one project but not another?
Thanks Monkey

**He finally got it **

Last edited by Riyadhi; November 20th, 2007 at 12:56 AM.
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Old November 20th, 2007, 09:56 AM   #1337
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Guys, there is no infringment on the Kaaba. Yes, the project is HUGE but then again times have changed and we are moving forward as technology progresses.

I remember my greatgrandmother used to tell me that she went to the Hajj on a Camel from Qatar, and it took weeks to reach there. Just imagine today with all the highway systems and airports, and exisiting buildings in Makkah, its a HUGE change from the way she visited in the early 1900's. Yet, The Kaaba didnt change in size or importance. Its still the same black cube that billions of people pray towards. So, times change and people become more and more, and things WE are not used to seeing ARE HAPPENING.

Yes, the project is huge, but look at the MILLIONS of people who come from all over the world to ask for salvation and forgiveness. The Holy Mosque is being expanded and people need a place to live. This calls for projects like these.
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Old November 20th, 2007, 03:45 PM   #1338
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Yes the Kaaba is still as important as it ever was in terms of the use. However, thinking in architectural terms, it would be fantastic to be able to view it from the distance and its towers. To stand back and appriciate it and its importance. Abraj Al-Bait seems to be very insensitive to its location and in a way bullying the Kaaba due to its sheer size. I believe the Holy Mosque would be able to sustain itself without this sort of development. Anyway you do not go to the Kaaba for reasons of worldly pleasures but for spiritual growth. Is Mecca about Louis Vitton and Versace or is it about more beyond full human understanding? In English Mecca translates as uncapitalized, looking at this project it appears it has quite decisively been capitalized.

Last edited by Monkey9000; November 20th, 2007 at 04:15 PM. Reason: short rephrase
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Old November 20th, 2007, 05:20 PM   #1339
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Old November 20th, 2007, 08:26 PM   #1340
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DreaM1981 - can you better articulate your opinion? Exactly what in Monkey9000, which was on the impact of the Abraj Al-Bait on its context, did you disagree with?
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