daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 20th, 2007, 08:35 PM   #1341
Riyadhi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,966
Likes (Received): 14

Monkey,

First of all you do seem like a genuinely concerned person; not some frustrated and hatred idiot. So, I'll be happy to reply to your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey9000 View Post
Yes the Kaaba is still as important as it ever was in terms of the use. However, thinking in architectural terms, it would be fantastic to be able to view it from the distance and its towers. To stand back and appriciate it and its importance.
Here are some facts that many people don't know,

-The Kaaba is the small black cube in the middle of the grand mosque.

-The current Kaaba building is relatively new and has no archeological importance.

- The grand mosque is surrounded by mountains and was never visible beyond few kilometers even before building anything.

- Before building Abraj Albait, the mosque was still not visible. It's only 3 floors high while it is surrounded by buildings with minimum of 10 floors. You can only see it when you are basically in front of it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey9000 View Post
Abraj Al-Bait seems to be very insensitive to its location and in a way bullying the Kaaba due to its sheer size.
The developers see the opposite. I do too! We think that the way Abraj Albait is overlooking the grand mosque is a positive thing for the mosque.

And for your information, about 75% of the praying areas inside the grand mosque are covered so most prayers will not even be able to see the towers while praying. Also, 80% of the Hajj rituals are not done anywhere near the grand mosque.

Finally, there are two purposes behind building such a high skyscraper that overlooks the mosque:
1. The square footage of land near the grand mosque are the most expensive in the world. So by building more residential units, you utilize the value of the lot and therefore reduce the prices of the apartments for the pilgrims.

2. The idea of being able to look at the Kaaba from the apartments is of a ritual importance to many Muslims. They can even pray along with the Imam from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey9000 View Post
Anyway you do not go to the Kaaba for reasons of worldly pleasures but for spiritual growth. Is Mecca about Louis Vitton and Versace or is it about more beyond full human understanding? In English Mecca translates as uncapitalized, looking at this project it appears it has quite decisively been capitalized.
My answer to this will come straight from the Quran,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quran
27. "And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage.* They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations."

28. They may seek commercial benefits, and they shall commemorate GOD's name during the specified days for providing them with livestock. "Eat therefrom and feed the despondent and the poor."

Quran: Hajj Sura, Verses 27,28
http://www.submission.org/suras/sura22.html
Your answer is in red
Riyadhi no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 20th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #1342
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
My answer to this will come straight from the Quran,
Quote:
28. They may seek commercial benefits, and they shall commemorate GOD's name during the specified days for providing them with livestock. "Eat therefrom and feed the despondent and the poor."
Your answer is in red
Riyadhi - following is the same verse as translated by the three most referred to translators of the Quran. What you have suggested is 'commercial benefits' is not in their translations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quran
[Shakir 22:28] That they may witness advantages for them and mention the name of Allah during stated days over what He has given them of the cattle quadrupeds, then eat of them and feed the distressed one, the needy.

[Yusufali 22:28] "That they may witness the benefits (provided) for them, and celebrate the name of Allah, through the Days appointed, over the cattle which He has provided for them (for sacrifice): then eat ye thereof and feed the distressed ones in want.

[Pickthal 22:28] That they may witness things that are of benefit to them, and mention the name of Allah on appointed days over the beast of cattle that He hath bestowed upon them. Then eat thereof and feed therewith the poor unfortunate.
Now while it was important for me to provide a response to Riyadhi's quoting of the Quran to justify a commercialized Mecca, I'd suggest that we back off from this line of discussion. As has been mentioned before, this is not a forum for the discussion of religion and of politics. I very much appreciated Monkey9000's take, which was from an architectural, heritage and planning stand-point.
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 09:01 PM   #1343
Riyadhi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,966
Likes (Received): 14

submission.org translation is based on Ibn Kathir interpretation of Quran which is one of the must reliable and trusted interpretations not my "suggested" interpretation!

Direct translation of the word "manafea" is "benifits" but the meaning behind it is "commercial benifits". And as an Arabic speaker, to me "benifts" clearly refers to the "commercial benefits"...




I suggest you learn some Arabic


And more -not selective- translated interpretations,
http://islamawakened.org/quran/22/28/default.htm

Last edited by Riyadhi; November 20th, 2007 at 09:14 PM.
Riyadhi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 09:05 PM   #1344
Monkey9000
£€$$ is more
 
Monkey9000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 338

Thanks Riyadhi and Walli they were both very interesting and educational responses. I now feel I greater understand the site and location, as well as the social/religious background. I can now undertand the reason for the scale and somewhat agree with you...although the style of the architecture is not entirely to my taste. It was a pleasure having this discussion.
Monkey9000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 09:12 PM   #1345
Riyadhi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,966
Likes (Received): 14

Thank you... the pleasure is mine... and I'm glad you do understand the situation now
The architecture is a matter of taste and you are entitled to your taste
Riyadhi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 09:15 PM   #1346
smussuw
Patriotic Emirati
 
smussuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,296
Likes (Received): 533

yep and relating architecture to religion is stupid.
smussuw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 09:37 PM   #1347
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
translation is based on Ibn Kathir interpretation of Quran which is one of the must reliable and trusted interpretations

<>

Direct translation of the word "manafea" is "benifits" but the meaning behind it is "commercial benifits".
"most reliable and trusted" by who? Anyone who knows Arabic will tell you the Arabic does not say 'commercial'. No - the meaning behind it in context of the Hajj is "spiritual benefits". The word 'commercial' is an insertion.

Getting back to the project, I really am curious how the military will deal with all the people wanting to visit the mall when they are all dressed the same.

Last edited by walli; November 20th, 2007 at 09:43 PM.
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 09:51 PM   #1348
Riyadhi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,966
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
"most reliable and trusted" by who? Anyone who knows Arabic will tell you the Arabic does not say 'commercial'. No - the meaning behind it in context of the Hajj is "spiritual benefits". The word 'commercial' is an insertion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Kathir

"Ibn Kathir wrote a famous commentary on the Qur'an named Tafsir ibn Kathir which linked certain Hadith, or sayings of Muhammad, and sayings of the sahaba to verses of the Qur'an, in explanation. Tafsir Ibn Kathir is famous all over the Muslim world and among Muslims in the Western world, and is one of the most widely used explanations of the Qu'ran today."

clearly you know nothing about Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
Anyone who knows Arabic will tell you the Arabic does not say 'commercial'. No - the meaning behind it in context of the Hajj is "spiritual benefits". The word 'commercial' is an insertion.
And you dont know Arabic neither...
oh and I know Arabic and you dont

This feels like having a discussion with a kid



-----------------------------



And another translation,

Quote:
That they may witness things that are of benefit to them (i.e. reward of Hajj in the Hereafter, and also some worldly gain from trade, etc.),

Last edited by Riyadhi; November 20th, 2007 at 09:56 PM.
Riyadhi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 09:55 PM   #1349
TheGlobalizer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
The developers see the opposite. I do too! We think that the way Abraj Albait is overlooking the grand mosque is a positive thing for the mosque.
This is the entire point for me. This project honors the Kaaba; it does not attempt to steal the honor.
TheGlobalizer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 09:57 PM   #1350
Ekumenopolis
Neon overdose
 
Ekumenopolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Madrid Metroarea
Posts: 3,301
Likes (Received): 2940

Agree too.
__________________
Ecumenopolis: "The city of the future, covering most of the habitable surface of the Earth as a continuous system, forming an universal settlement, the limits determined by climatic constraints and the extent of fairly flat land."
Ekumenopolis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 09:58 PM   #1351
Riyadhi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,966
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGlobalizer View Post
This is the entire point for me. This project honors the Kaaba; it does not attempt to steal the honor.
absolutely
Riyadhi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 10:00 PM   #1352
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudi guy View Post
September 23,2007
photo by mohsin rashid pasha
Full Size
I'm still trying to figure out where the Kaaba in this picture?
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 10:01 PM   #1353
dangerven
Registered User
 
dangerven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: En la concha de vuestra...
Posts: 451
Likes (Received): 2

¡que es esa construccion un hotel acaso?
__________________
Venezuela... caerse está permitido... ¡levantarce es obligatorio!
dangerven no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 10:14 PM   #1354
Riyadhi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,966
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
I'm still trying to figure out where the Kaaba in this picture?
You obviously have never been to Mecca !!



In addiont to,
You don't know who Ibn Kahtir is!!
You know *little* about Islam!!
You know nothing about Arabic!!
You call the Grand Mosque "Kabaa" !!


Sorry, I find it it useless to debate with you
Riyadhi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 10:16 PM   #1355
DreaM1981
Registered User
 
DreaM1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
"most reliable and trusted" by who? Anyone who knows Arabic will tell you the Arabic does not say 'commercial'. No - the meaning behind it in context of the Hajj is "spiritual benefits". The word 'commercial' is an insertion.

Getting back to the project, I really am curious how the military will deal with all the people wanting to visit the mall when they are all dressed the same.
What are you arguing about? even our language?

I am arab and I know very well that manafa means benefits and it means the commercial benefits not the spirtual one and this is how we studied it everywhere in each school we joined for over than 18 years.

I wonder why are you arguing even about the lang. which is not yours!!!!

please talk about anything and disagree about anything but do not translate the quran as you want or my reply will be very rude, tough and strict.

First time in my life, I hear/read your translation about the spirtual benefits lol FIRST TIME!!!

It is well known that you can go for hajj/umrah and at same time you can go to shops and buy whatever you want and so on

It never was forbidden at all so please do not waste our time and keep the arabic for the arabs. If we have any question about english lang., we will not hesitate to ask you instead of claiming that we know its meaning.
__________________
DreaM1981
DreaM1981 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #1356
DreaM1981
Registered User
 
DreaM1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
I'm still trying to figure out where the Kaaba in this picture?
I agree with you... We need to demolish all mountains too around Makkah to be able to see the grand mosque from all angels. Mountains are steeling the honor of the kaaba too

Be logic, You can not even see the kaaba from that angel even if this project did not exist cause there was a mountain and above the mountain there was an old castle as far you know.

No one would be able to see the kaaba from that angel in anyway, that is why i suggested demolishing all mountains around the kaaba to let wali feels happy and see the view of grand mosque (aka kaaba from your point of view)lol.
__________________
DreaM1981
DreaM1981 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 10:28 PM   #1357
Monkey9000
£€$$ is more
 
Monkey9000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 338

Haha, you guys are hilarious, I love it!
Monkey9000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2007, 08:59 AM   #1358
Halawala
Fairouzy
 
Halawala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Doha
Posts: 7,869
Likes (Received): 265

I dont think even "Zarqaa Al Yamama" can see the Kaaba without Abraj Al-Bait LOOOOL

Guys, just ignore him....


Anyways, anybody knows the scheduled completion of the main tower?
__________________
@Halawala
#R4BIA #thankyouHAMAD
Halawala no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2007, 05:25 PM   #1359
DreaM1981
Registered User
 
DreaM1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 3

First quarter of 2009, The clock should be installed inshallah (God willing).

Installation of the clock is supposed to take almost 4-6 Months inshallah (God willing).

More 6 months for spire and the "helal" at the top as far I know

It is supposed to be finished at 2nd quarter of 2010 inshallah.
__________________
DreaM1981
DreaM1981 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2007, 07:58 PM   #1360
(fabrizio)
Registered User
 
(fabrizio)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London W4
Posts: 12,807
Likes (Received): 3096

Hi everybody...I have to say i was doubtful about this project (you know, too close to an Holy place, even if not holy for my religion but for many other is...the design seemed too "80's in Miami", if you know what i mean) but, looking at the pictures you posted i'm thinking about it in a new way...it's better for real than in renderings!
i just have some little questions to pose you:
can you do a massive photographic tour of the place? i'm not a Muslim, so i won't be able to go and see with my own eyes
will be any form of eco-friendly measures like solar power or similar?
last, a thing i was thinking about last days, about those huge projects in Arab countries: how do the fire brigades work there? let me explain: Arabia isn't famous for water, isn't it?so, how do you manage to ensure a fire protection in such enormous buildings?
thanks!!!
(fabrizio) no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
abraj al bait, saudi arabia

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu