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Old November 23rd, 2007, 08:11 PM   #1361
cityscapes
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The buildings of this complex have a good design and are not offensive in my opinion it's just the big tower is really hideous and should be changed before it's too late.
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Old November 23rd, 2007, 10:34 PM   #1362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (fabrizio) View Post
Hi everybody...I have to say i was doubtful about this project (you know, too close to an Holy place, even if not holy for my religion but for many other is...the design seemed too "80's in Miami", if you know what i mean) but, looking at the pictures you posted i'm thinking about it in a new way...it's better for real than in renderings!
i just have some little questions to pose you:
can you do a massive photographic tour of the place? i'm not a Muslim, so i won't be able to go and see with my own eyes
will be any form of eco-friendly measures like solar power or similar?
last, a thing i was thinking about last days, about those huge projects in Arab countries: how do the fire brigades work there? let me explain: Arabia isn't famous for water, isn't it?so, how do you manage to ensure a fire protection in such enormous buildings?
thanks!!!
Hi there,

1. You cant personally tour the area of course, but the complex is right in front of the Holy Mosque, and you can search the Holy Mosque and see it by yourself.

2. Even though there isnt as much water as the west, there is still water, and of course all these towers have fire protecton in them. Makkah also has a fire department and it takes fire very seriously.
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Last edited by Halawala; November 26th, 2007 at 05:16 PM. Reason: I meant to say cant in my original post, sorry
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Old November 23rd, 2007, 11:18 PM   #1363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halawala View Post

1. You can personally tour the area of course, but the complex is right in front of the Holy Mosque, and you can search the Holy Mosque and see it by yourself.
you see, I've been told non - Muslims can't come and see...so you have no chance, you must go and report for us here!
anyway, which would be the materials used to cover the facade, apart from glass of course?
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Old November 23rd, 2007, 11:47 PM   #1364
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Originally Posted by (fabrizio) View Post
you see, I've been told non - Muslims can't come and see...so you have no chance, you must go and report for us here!
anyway, which would be the materials used to cover the facade, apart from glass of course?
I know, I specifically said SEARCH (ie. Google, Yahoo, website, ect...) if you want to see pictures. I dont live in Makkah so Im afraid I cant report it for you.

Materials are cement, concrete, maybe marble?
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Old November 24th, 2007, 12:17 AM   #1365
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ok thanks...but you know, a first hand report made by a forumer is better IMHO!
anyway, who's the archtect behind all this stuff?maybe somebody wrote it before, but i'm too lazy to search right now!
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Old November 24th, 2007, 12:43 AM   #1366
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Dar Al Handasah Architects
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Old November 26th, 2007, 11:01 AM   #1367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halawala View Post
2. Even though there isnt as much water as the west, there is still water, and of course all these towers have fire protecton in them. Makkah also has a fire department and it takes fire very seriously.
I remember a few years ago a huge fire killed hundreds of people camped in Mecca. It was a big scandal across the Islamic world. I think the fire regulations must have been tightened after that.
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Old November 26th, 2007, 04:11 PM   #1368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halawala View Post
Hi there,

1. You can personally tour the area of course, but the complex is right in front of the Holy Mosque, and you can search the Holy Mosque and see it by yourself.
Since when non-Muslims are allowed to enter Makkah?
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Old November 26th, 2007, 05:17 PM   #1369
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Originally Posted by shaggers_jr View Post
I remember a few years ago a huge fire killed hundreds of people camped in Mecca. It was a big scandal across the Islamic world. I think the fire regulations must have been tightened after that.
Of course. They regulations were tightened a lot!
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Old November 26th, 2007, 05:30 PM   #1370
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Any new update??? I think it is one of the slowest supertalls under construction.
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Old November 26th, 2007, 05:48 PM   #1371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggers_jr View Post
I remember a few years ago a huge fire killed hundreds of people camped in Mecca. It was a big scandal across the Islamic world. I think the fire regulations must have been tightened after that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halawala View Post
Of course. They regulations were tightened a lot!
While regulations may have been tightened, they don't always result in an improved fire response system. The metrics are unfortunately not always centred around lives saved. While the issues include lack of appropriate response, there is sometimes also the purposeful delay in response (a hard one to swallow)!

With respect to this project, beyond fire response, I would also add implications on logistics around the Kaaba, given the addition of this large complex. There has already been a history of stampedes causing death, and I'm wondering if this has been helped or hindered here?

Hajj disasters:

1987: 400 die as Saudi authorities confront pro-Iranian demonstration
1990: 1,426 pilgrims killed in tunnel leading to holy sites
1994: 270 killed in stampede + hundreds injured
1997: 343 pilgrims die and 1,500 injured in fire
1998: At least 118 trampled to death + hundreds indured
2001: 35 die in stampede
2003: 14 are crushed to death
2004: 251 trampled to death in stampede + hundreds injured
2006: 345 trampled to death in stampede + hundreds injured


Now this list above tells me that logistics and unimpeded movement of people is a huge issue - and certainly there has not been a real improvement from the numbers that keep dying! Hope people understand the connection of this information and issue to this large project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quran 5-32
to save one life is as if to save all of humanity.

Last edited by walli; November 26th, 2007 at 06:01 PM.
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Old November 26th, 2007, 06:46 PM   #1372
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This has to be the ugliest set of buildings I've ever seen. The main tower looking like a larger version of Big Ben.
Reminds me of the Death-star.
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Old November 26th, 2007, 07:48 PM   #1373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
With respect to this project, beyond fire response, I would also add implications on logistics around the Kaaba, given the addition of this large complex. There has already been a history of stampedes causing death, and I'm wondering if this has been helped or hindered here?

Hajj disasters:

1987: 400 die as Saudi authorities confront pro-Iranian demonstration
1990: 1,426 pilgrims killed in tunnel leading to holy sites
1994: 270 killed in stampede + hundreds injured
1997: 343 pilgrims die and 1,500 injured in fire
1998: At least 118 trampled to death + hundreds indured
2001: 35 die in stampede
2003: 14 are crushed to death
2004: 251 trampled to death in stampede + hundreds injured
2006: 345 trampled to death in stampede + hundreds injured


Now this list above tells me that logistics and unimpeded movement of people is a huge issue - and certainly there has not been a real improvement from the numbers that keep dying! Hope people understand the connection of this information and issue to this large project.

If you know just a little about Mecca, you will realize that all of the above incidents happened in Muzdalifa and Mina and Maaisim tunnel, no where near the grand mosque. Do you even know what's Muzdalifa and Mina ?? The grand mosque area has always been safe which means the project will not really cause any stampede accidents . The access from the mosque to the project is wide and open. In addition, the rituals of Tawaf and Saiy have open timing unlike Jamarat. Jamarat is a small area and the ritual has to be done in a short and restricted time frame which have resulted in stampedes.

Smart muslims know that the area around the grad mosque is stampede-free...
Only an idiot will say that the project will cause any stampede


And by the way, the fires didn't happen anymore because all the tents of Mina were replaced with anti fire tents And now are being replaced by highrise buildings.. The Stampede issue at Muzdalifa is being resovled by $1.2 billion Jamarat bridge project. The first phase was completed and tested last year resulting in a safe Jamarat ritual.
Mecca is in safe hands






PS: it's always smart to ask questions and it is very stupid to make ignorant assumptions

Last edited by Riyadhi; November 26th, 2007 at 07:55 PM.
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Old November 26th, 2007, 08:38 PM   #1374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopsky View Post
This has to be the ugliest set of buildings I've ever seen. The main tower looking like a larger version of Big Ben.
Reminds me of the Death-star.
You are not alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
If you know just a little about Mecca, you will realize that all of the above incidents happened in Muzdalifa and Mina and Maaisim tunnel, no where near the grand mosque.
I'm well aware of where the incidents took place. They took place in areas where there were bottlenecks, be they caused by a bridge or a tunnel or what have you. The lesson in those is not to create additional bottlenecks within the areas the pilgrims will be visiting and moving around in. The relevance to this thread is thus straightforward.

BTW - the fires previously mentioned by someone else were also not in the Kaaba itself, but the questions and discussion were still relevant. Quran 5-32: to save one life is as if to save all of humanity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
PS: it's always smart to ask questions and it is very stupid to make ignorant assumptions
There is no reason for such comments. The moderator should take note.
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Old November 26th, 2007, 08:47 PM   #1375
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this thread is so frustrating because of walli

I guess its time to unsubscribe
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Old November 26th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #1376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (fabrizio) View Post
let me explain: Arabia isn't famous for water, isn't it?so, how do you manage to ensure a fire protection in such enormous buildings?
thanks!!!
Actually there are tanks which are filled by water and the fire fighting system is already energized and filled. It works only in case of fire and sure when the fire occures, The pumps will start to discharge the water from very very very huge tanks at basement 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riyadhi View Post
Dar Al Handasah Architects
Actually the Arch. designer is Richmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
I'm well aware of where the incidents took place. They took place in areas where there were bottlenecks, be they caused by a bridge or a tunnel or what have you. The lesson in those is not to create additional bottlenecks within the areas the pilgrims will be visiting and moving around in. The relevance to this thread is thus straightforward.
The new Jamarat bridge (Phase 1) has been built and now Phase two has been completed and will be ready for Hajj 2007 inshallah (God willing).

One more thing, Over than 5 millions going to the same place at same time, What are you expecting? Accidents may happen but sure the gov. is doing its best to reduce them but any logic human imagines the situation specially cause there are old people and kids going among these 5 millions.

Be logic please and do not accuse because of hate feelings.
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Old November 26th, 2007, 08:59 PM   #1377
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Over than 5 millions going to the same place at same time, What are you expecting? Accidents may happen but sure the gov. is doing its best to reduce them but any logic human imagines the situation specially cause there are old people and kids going among these 5 millions.
You've misunderstood. Certainly errors and accidents happen - no one is perfect on this earth. I was just pointing out that bottlenecks increase the likelihood of accidents, and learning form past situations relating to the Kaaba pilgrimage is important. While one area is improved, if we don't understand the underlying causes, the same could be caused elsewhere.

If this project has thought about this, alhamdulillah. If it hasn't, and instead is going to be a large impervious structure, the next lesson could be more deadly!
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Old November 26th, 2007, 09:01 PM   #1378
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this thread is so frustrating because of walli

I guess its time to unsubscribe
Quite frankly, I don't understand why in this, and other threads as well, moderators allow ad-personam attacks and insults (I have other examples ready if anybody's interested). Walli's critiques may be well-founded or not, but they are legitimate nevertheless, and it doesn't seem to me that he's being impolite or is violating any forum's rule, whereas his self-elected adversaries - who seem to be prodded to post in a compulsory way every time he speaks about this building - are beyond impolite and have a really arrogant attitude.
Really sometimes I wonder what moderators are for, if not to make people abide by the rules. Are they too busy? Well let's elect more of them. Sorry for the OT, I hope the mods will cancel my post AND take action in other ways too.
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Old November 26th, 2007, 09:04 PM   #1379
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Originally Posted by smussuw View Post
this thread is so frustrating because of walli
I agree with you.
Let`s change the name of the thread to: Walli complaints about Mecca

I am a skyscraper fan. This building would be 87m taller tha the current tallest building in world so i am interested. But all i see is Walli complaining. Does he ever contribute anything useful to this thread?
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Old November 26th, 2007, 09:26 PM   #1380
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I'm well aware of where the incidents took place. They took place in areas where there were bottlenecks, be they caused by a bridge or a tunnel or what have you. The lesson in those is not to create additional bottlenecks within the areas the pilgrims will be visiting and moving around in. The relevance to this thread is thus straightforward.
If you know little about the project and Mecca you will realize that it's far from creating any "bottlenecks"! The square in front of the building is HUGE and there are 3 huge mosque gates in front of it. In addition the complex itself has multiple large gates.

And if you know little about the previous stampede, you'll realized that they happened at times when hundreds of thousands were at the same spot, at the same time. If you know little about the Grand Mosque area and condition, you will realize that this has 0.0000000000% of happening

But obviously, you know nothing
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