daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 2nd, 2008, 01:22 PM   #1901
SA BOY
South Straddie QLD
 
SA BOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: dubai
Posts: 10,404
Likes (Received): 468

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazdaman View Post
This is not an accurate account of what took place. Wikipedia has a decent article on the 'Grand Mosque Seizure' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_Seizure
From Wiki Pedia
On November 20, 1979 two hundred armed Islamist dissidents led by Saudi preacher Juhayman al-Otaibi seized the Grand Mosque. They claimed that the Saudi royal family no longer represented pure Islam and that the mosque, and the Kaaba, must be held by those of the true faith. The rebels seized tens of thousands of pilgrims as hostages and barricaded themselves in the mosque. The siege lasted two weeks, and resulted in several hundred deaths and significant damage to the shrine, especially the Safa-Marwa gallery. While it is the Pakistani forces that carried out the bloodless assault, they were assisted with weapons and planning by a small team of advisors from The French GIGN commando unit.[27]

Strange its bloodless but several hundred deaths???

However Read this and see what really happend not what the Saudi Giovernmnet wants you to belive, its a fasinating read.

The Siege of Mecca: The Forgotten Uprising in Islam's Holiest Shrine and the Birth of al-Qaeda"-Yaroslav Trofimov
__________________
Build High-The Pixies

Last edited by SA BOY; July 2nd, 2008 at 02:51 PM.
SA BOY no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 2nd, 2008, 02:18 PM   #1902
GoSatta
Rex Dominus
 
GoSatta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stockholm / Bangkok
Posts: 1,388
Likes (Received): 257

and when was the "haram" built? before or after the sauidis took over?
__________________
GoSatta
www.gosatta.org - Pictures
GoSatta no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2008, 10:24 PM   #1903
saeed
KING SAEED III
 
saeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 740
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSatta View Post
and when was the "haram" built? before or after the sauidis took over?
Kabaa (which is the black square house) was built by prophet Ibrahim few thousands years ago instructed by mighty God himself . Its been the the holy distination since then(beside Jerusalem which was and still the holy mecca of judasim and chritianity). The building is really old, but been renovated by the government and covered with this very expensive decorative black cover. (it also contain "the black stone" which islam claim it came down from heavens to be the pillar stone and symbol of the building. The stone was pure white but it turns black because of continous human sins.)
The islamic book mentioned that there is- on a imaginary vertical straight line from Kabaa in the sky- another Kabaa for the angels in the heavens where 70,000 angels every day perform piligrim to that Kabaa once in their life time and never come back again to that place, then others come next the following day( too many angels there I guess!).

in islam its mentioned that there is a true straight ray of light coming from the Kabba in mecca to the sky that we cannot see, but animals does. The prove is that people always see birds flying around the Kabaa building of Mecca in circules but no one saw them crossing over the building ever!!!!!

Another intersting thing I like, if you check Kabaa and mecca location on Google Earth, you will see a pure intense white color that looks like its glowing or something, or maybe a its just a bad photo shot from the sattlelite!
__________________
After reaching 1000 meter height.... good luck getting my attention!
saeed no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2008, 12:14 AM   #1904
GoSatta
Rex Dominus
 
GoSatta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stockholm / Bangkok
Posts: 1,388
Likes (Received): 257

i know the history of the kabaa (and the last one is built by the ottomans not abraham ) but my question was directed to saladin1970 who said that the "haram" was built by non muslims. and for me that dosn´t speak arabic i get a bit confused about the word "haram" in our script it can translate to alot of words. forbbiden, sacred and if im not wrong "things that are forbidden for muslim" etc. etc.

so my question to make it more clear, what "haram" do you mean saladin1970?? and what dose that have to do with that no non muslims are alowed in the city of mecca today?

i took a look at google earth now and it looks like the roof of the kabaa is withe.. looking forward for the pics from the tower of the kabaa to see how it lookes close up
__________________
GoSatta
www.gosatta.org - Pictures
GoSatta no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2008, 01:09 AM   #1905
Halawala
Fairouzy
 
Halawala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Doha
Posts: 7,869
Likes (Received): 265

This thread is not about history or anything. Its about a peice of architecture. Dont get off topic...
__________________
@Halawala
#R4BIA #thankyouHAMAD
Halawala no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2008, 01:43 AM   #1906
lindow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 108
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
lindow no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2008, 06:12 AM   #1907
shaggers_jr
can the can
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,139
Likes (Received): 174

Quote:
Originally Posted by saladin1970 View Post
This is not correct,
for example the current haram was designed and built with the help of non muslims
I'm sure that at certain points in history non-Muslims were invited to Mecca. But the point is that if I wanted to see mosque, kabaa etc, I would not be allowed to as a non-Muslim and would be risking a possible death penalty.
shaggers_jr no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2008, 08:57 PM   #1908
saeed
KING SAEED III
 
saeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 740
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggers_jr View Post
I'm sure that at certain points in history non-Muslims were invited to Mecca. But the point is that if I wanted to see mosque, kabaa etc, I would not be allowed to as a non-Muslim and would be risking a possible death penalty.
Lets be a bet realistic, if such thing happens then the media will definetly make a big show about it, specially nowdays which many are waiting to prove islam is practicing brutality against non muslim or any such negative practices. But the truth part is you are not allowed inside the holy area because its considered a very holy place, even muslims they should change their clothes and be prepared with standard body hygeine. (thats why you see them all with the unified white uniform)

Regarding the meaning of the word "haram" its not the same word as "haraam" which means forbidden, its pronounced different and it means the total praying area and open spaces around the Kabaa. If you join the large pray at the kabaa, you can join the prayer from any place in the "haram" area.
I love the photo with Abraaj, I think it look amazingly gigantic.
__________________
After reaching 1000 meter height.... good luck getting my attention!
saeed no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2008, 09:25 PM   #1909
smussuw
Patriotic Emirati
 
smussuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,294
Likes (Received): 533

Where does it say that a non-muslim going to Makkah will have a death penalty? Stop bullshitting please
smussuw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2008, 10:10 AM   #1910
leogodoy
Registered User
 
leogodoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: São Paulo
Posts: 178
Likes (Received): 49

Quote:
Originally Posted by smussuw View Post
Where does it say that a non-muslim going to Makkah will have a death penalty? Stop bullshitting please
It seems nowadays the penalty is deportation (http://wikitravel.org/en/Mecca), but I found some references of 'death penalty'. Maybe the rules aren't so predefined, but they leave no room for doubt about the prohibition of a non-muslim entering the holy city:

More recently:
http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/saudioppression.html

And, in the past: http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/mecca.htm (ir Richard Francis Burton's journey, someone mentioned it before)
leogodoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2008, 04:06 PM   #1911
smussuw
Patriotic Emirati
 
smussuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,294
Likes (Received): 533

Yea, non-muslims are prohibited from entering the city but the death penalty is a still bullshit !

Last edited by smussuw; July 5th, 2008 at 04:26 PM.
smussuw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2008, 04:17 PM   #1912
idkblk
-InQontrol-
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 221
Likes (Received): 2

I just think of any random country that doesnt allow a specific thing only to muslims... that would be hell of a scandal huh?

Nobody would even try to justify it by: You just have to respect the rules.. how stupid they might be.

Anyway... i still think that building is damn ugly.. They really should keep that damn thing to themselves i couldn't care less about anything
idkblk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 6th, 2008, 07:15 AM   #1913
leogodoy
Registered User
 
leogodoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: São Paulo
Posts: 178
Likes (Received): 49

Quote:
Originally Posted by idkblk View Post
I just think of any random country that doesnt allow a specific thing only to muslims... that would be hell of a scandal huh?

Nobody would even try to justify it by: You just have to respect the rules.. how stupid they might be.

Anyway... i still think that building is damn ugly.. They really should keep that damn thing to themselves i couldn't care less about anything
Most of us that are more dettached from religion have a hard time understanding the concept, but the cities being considered holy by the muslim, and a muslim monarchy with a sort of allodial title to the land where those cities are, well, basicaly they can restrict access to anywhere in the country.

Going a little off topic here, but I don't think blocking non-muslim access to Mecca and Medina is really the main problem any humanist or altruist should focus on when criticizing Saudi Arabia...

Last edited by leogodoy; July 7th, 2008 at 12:14 AM.
leogodoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 6th, 2008, 04:49 PM   #1914
Blizzy
Perfect Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 1,255
Likes (Received): 88

Quote:
Originally Posted by SA BOY View Post
From Wiki Pedia
On November 20, 1979 two hundred armed Islamist dissidents led by Saudi preacher Juhayman al-Otaibi seized the Grand Mosque. They claimed that the Saudi royal family no longer represented pure Islam and that the mosque, and the Kaaba, must be held by those of the true faith. The rebels seized tens of thousands of pilgrims as hostages and barricaded themselves in the mosque. The siege lasted two weeks, and resulted in several hundred deaths and significant damage to the shrine, especially the Safa-Marwa gallery. While it is the Pakistani forces that carried out the bloodless assault, they were assisted with weapons and planning by a small team of advisors from The French GIGN commando unit.[27]

Strange its bloodless but several hundred deaths???
I heard (don't remember the source) that they were cornered in some flooded tunnels, and the electrocuted. So technically, yes, it was bloodless.
Blizzy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 7th, 2008, 09:10 AM   #1915
luci203
Registered User
 
luci203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,129
Likes (Received): 1202

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casawi View Post
OMG, if this isn't a crime against the holy and beautiful Kaaba......
I thought the King of Saudi Arabia was the 'Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques', but he really screwed up in this case
Have anyone see this video? This have to be the biggest advertising bull I have ever see!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvSzzBWXyIQ

Conduct your prayers in comfort... - can someone explain this?

I belived that the hole point was to be humble before God(Allah).

Ehh, maybe I'm not familiar with the latest trends.
luci203 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 7th, 2008, 11:28 AM   #1916
(fabrizio)
Registered User
 
(fabrizio)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London W4
Posts: 12,807
Likes (Received): 3096

sad thing about this building is they destroyed the ancient fortress which was standing in the area... couldn't they, I don't know, move it somewhere else? didn't SA National Heritage Fund protest, or whatever?
(fabrizio) no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 12:17 PM   #1917
shaggers_jr
can the can
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,139
Likes (Received): 174

Quote:
Originally Posted by smussuw View Post
Yea, non-muslims are prohibited from entering the city but the death penalty is a still bullshit !
The penalty is up to the discretion of the court, which be include anything... including deportation, imprisonment or death. Yes, its unlikely but the possibility exists.
shaggers_jr no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 03:22 PM   #1918
smussuw
Patriotic Emirati
 
smussuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,294
Likes (Received): 533

Give me a break !
smussuw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 08:04 PM   #1919
Tounsi
TUNISIAN MODERATOR
 
Tounsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,069
Likes (Received): 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindow View Post
I am really really angry.. the holiest place of our religilion and they are building the ugliest building even built by mankind !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it s a shame !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Tounsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 09:09 PM   #1920
cmj2k2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 450
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
The shadow could be a good thing. If it's really hot out there you would want to be under a shadow.
lol
__________________
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
-Thomas Jefferson
cmj2k2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
abraj al bait, saudi arabia

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu