CARDIFF | Full Summary of Projects - Page 2

Gherkin · April 7th, 2006, 02:29 PM

Can't wait to see Bay Pointe go up. I visit Cardiff lots...love the place

jantra · April 7th, 2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

More images of the Roath Basin Masterplan by Terry Farrell:

how far down the line is the Roath Basin project???? when could we see some meaningful development over that side of the docks?

any news on the glass needle and meridian gate? any renders for the rest of callaghan sqaure - other than what is on the MPEC website which is sooo out of date

Cambo_Dai · April 7th, 2006, 06:29 PM

If one looks on the Cardiff Unitary Development Plan, the "Roath Basin Southside" action area extends to a greater area than shown on those diagrams. It extends down the eastern side of the Bay almost as far as the barrage, albeit in only a narrow strip not much wider than a road, a block of flats, and a waterside path. I also think its safe to say that the 'masterplan' shown there should be seen as very general - we're likely to see development on this site over quite a long time frame (though I'd be surprised if it lasts the 20 yrs I've seen suggested by officials) with some major modifications along the way. I wouldn't be surprised if the focus on biotech and media gets watered down to include financial and legal-type employers too, for instance.

With regards the Capital Odeon site - has it really been closed that long? Turning this site into apartments would be a major head-ache due to its complete integration in the rest of the Capital complex. Conversion to a store, or perhaps offices (very handy location near Queen St) seems the most likely and best use of this site. Anything that interferes with the parking provision at the Capital would surely be rejected until St Davids II anyway, given the probably acute shortage of parking during construction. To be honest it'd be a bit boring for another residential tower to go up in Cardiff. It'd be much more exciting, and a much greater show of confidence in the city, if we had a medium to high rise office building. 10+ for offices I'd consider very interesting, even if it wasn't that tall.

URBANO · April 7th, 2006, 06:38 PM

Andrew

Thsnks for Roath Basin- you are absolutely right- it was there all along, just too blind to see it Sorry!

Andrew · April 7th, 2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

It'd be much more exciting, and a much greater show of confidence in the city, if we had a medium to high rise office building. 10+ for offices I'd consider very interesting, even if it wasn't that tall.

Yes it would be brilliant to see more offices go up in the city centre, especially if they're mid to high-rise. Also bear in mind that a 10 floor office building would be much higher than a 10 floor residential building because floor to ceiling heights for offices are much greater. For example the British Gas building, Helmont House has only 12 floors but is actually slightly taller than it's 17 floor neighbour, Landmark Place.
Yes we most certainly want some high-rise office buildings in the city centre!

Cambo_Dai · April 9th, 2006, 05:16 PM

Hi, about St David's II and Adam Street. I'm probably reading too much into it but it could be a sign that once they complete the main shopping centre, and the Adam Street area isn't needed for parking, something like the towers in their earlier planning application may be built.

Look at the "planning view" here:

http://www.stdavids2.com/pages/thede...ent_images.asp

You can definitely see the things for Adam St on it. If I recall, the original Adam St plan included some parking for shoppers. I'm also sure they were originally suggesting having over 4000 car parking spaces as opposed to 3000 due to the expected increase in shopper numbers. I think the council probably queried the amount of parking on sustainable development grounds, so St Davids II dropped the plans for the parking at the towers on Adam St. They then may have decided to not put a fresh application in for this site until after St Davids II is built; if parking seems to be an issue they can then suggest some as part of this development, and if it isn't they can drop that aspect of the original scheme and keep the residential and small retail element.

Andrew · April 9th, 2006, 05:44 PM

Yeah, I came to exactly the same conclusion as you on the Adam Street towers. I'm pretty sure they're not off the cards but I dont expect we'll see much info on them until after St David's 2 is either completed or at least in an advanced stage of development as they will not be able to even start work on the Adam Street site until the car park in St David's 2 is completed.

I found this news article at icWales: http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html
It's a bit of a shame but they give a fair enough reason. It does confuse me a bit though. They talk about the Swansea 50m swimming pool as the only option for Commonwealth Games use. Does that mean that the new pool to be built in the Sports Village will not be to that standard? I was under the impression that it was going to be a replacement for the Empire Pool and as such should be of a high enough standard to host the Commonwealth Games swimming events.

Andrew · April 9th, 2006, 06:08 PM

A bit of good news ...

Quote:

Amended needle plan is given the council go-ahead Apr 8 2006

Katie Jones, South Wales Echo

Plans for a £50m glass needle apartment block that had to be redesigned to cope with strong wind have been approved.

Developers Urban Solutions submitted the new plans after tests revealed passers-by could get caught in a wind tunnel effect created by the original design.

Alterations were made to the ground level and the plans have now been passed by Cardiff council's planning committee.

The new 32-storey scheme in Wood Street will see the glass needle rise to 350ft, with two lower blocks, and four levels of parking with 190 spaces. The development will include 248 apartments and eight smaller shops, rather than six larger ones, are also planned on the site.

They are likely to include a convenience store, newsagents, cafe, gift shop and possibly a gym over two floors.

In a report to councillors Malcolm Evans, Cardiff council's head of regulatory services, said: 'The new application retains the needle element, which has been reorientated and revised slightly as a direct response to wind testing.'

(Quoted from: http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html)

If the article is accurate then the design changes have mainly been for technical reasons and hopefully this project hasnt been value engineered to hell and back! lol
No word on when construction will start though, hopefully soon considering the site has already been cleared. Still no website or any other info on this scheme though which means there are still seeds of doubt in my mind. Aren't they going to launch this one to a big fanfare for everyone to see with a nice flashy website, sales office etc. like Redrow did with altolusso and Celestia? I'll have more confidence in this one when that happens and the appartments start selling.

Pondle · April 9th, 2006, 06:49 PM

I found this news article at icWales: http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html
It's a bit of a shame but they give a fair enough reason. It does confuse me a bit though. They talk about the Swansea 50m swimming pool as the only option for Commonwealth Games use. Does that mean that the new pool to be built in the Sports Village will not be to that standard? I was under the impression that it was going to be a replacement for the Empire Pool and as such should be of a high enough standard to host the Commonwealth Games swimming events.[/QUOTE]

I thought the proposed pool at the Sports Village was a leisure rather than competition facility... the Olympic-sized Wales National Pool in Swansea was the official replacement for the Empire Pool, funded with a grant from the Sports Council for Wales. I'm not exactly sure how the proposed pool at the Cardiff Sports Village will be financed, or who will own and operate it?

Andrew · April 9th, 2006, 07:50 PM

Oh right, I didnt realise that. It may not be competition standard but I'm sure it's at least going to be a 50m pool though, I'm sure I read that somewhere!

mustrum_ridcully · April 9th, 2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Yeah, I came to exactly the same conclusion as you on the Adam Street towers. I'm pretty sure they're not off the cards but I dont expect we'll see much info on them until after St David's 2 is either completed or at least in an advanced stage of development as they will not be able to even start work on the Adam Street site until the car park in St David's 2 is completed.

I found this news article at icWales: http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html
It's a bit of a shame but they give a fair enough reason. It does confuse me a bit though. They talk about the Swansea 50m swimming pool as the only option for Commonwealth Games use. Does that mean that the new pool to be built in the Sports Village will not be to that standard? I was under the impression that it was going to be a replacement for the Empire Pool and as such should be of a high enough standard to host the Commonwealth Games swimming events.

Maybe no mention was made of the Cardiff 50m pool as it hasn't been built yet?

Good grief talk about a defeatist attitude.

Mind you the politicians are to blame for this situation as they're too scared of "it's not fair Cardiff get's everything" brigade and don't want to fund whatever development would be required. The situation wouldn't be so bad if they'd built the replacement for Cardiff's Empire Pool in Cardiff.

Andrew · April 9th, 2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Maybe no mention was made of the Cardiff 50m pool as it hasn't been built yet?

But facilities wouldnt be needed till 2014!!

I think it's more likely to be like Pondle said that the pool will not be equipped to a competition standard. A huge shame in my opinion. Whatever happened to our "International Sports Village"??? Just sounds like an ordinary leisure centre to me!

mustrum_ridcully · April 9th, 2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

But facilities wouldnt be needed till 2014!!

I think it's more likely to be like Pondle said that the pool will not be equipped to a competition standard. A huge shame in my opinion. Whatever happened to our "International Sports Village"??? Just sounds like an ordinary leisure centre to me!

I'm sure the journalists wouldn't want the facts to get in the way of a good story eh

Or am I getting cynical in my old age? It is a bit funny that they didn't take the opportunity to have a bit of dig at the new Cardiff pool saying how it won't be upto the job (but do the journalists and/or Mr Pugh know about it the pool).

Here's some BBC coverage about the pool it calls it an International pool, which suggests it could be up to competition standard.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3326081.stm

Meanwhile this one says it costs £50m which is x5 the Swansea pool at that price it really ought to be to the job
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/4304498.stm

Andrew · April 9th, 2006, 10:23 PM

Bloody hell! OK, if it's costing £50 million then it had better be up to the job! Otherwise what the hell are they spending the money on?!?
I think you're probably right there, they probably conveniently chose to 'forget' about the Cardiff pool. In fact seeing as their highest priority is to get a good story, I think that if the Cardiff pool is costing 50 million and it isnt going to be competition standard then that would make a much better story than the one they wrote. They could write about how much taxpayers money was being wasted on a pool that couldnt even host large scale sporting events when the one in Swansea can and yet cost 1/5th of the cost. That does leave other questions such why the assembly minister they spoke to also conveniently ignored the Cardiff pool ...

Pondle · April 10th, 2006, 12:51 AM

Yeah visions are all very well, but actually constructing and operating the facilities are quite another matter! TBH I'm quite sceptical about the Sports Village. So much land seems to be allocated for retail or residential development, not to mention the 'regional super-casino', hotels and offices, I wonder what kind of space there will ultimately be for all the fancy facilities the Council is proposing.

To answer Mustrum Ridcully, I do feel that Cardiff has benefitted disproportionately from public funding over recent years - CBDC, Millennium Stadium, Millennium Centre, National Assembly etc etc... Cardiff is a relatively prosperous part of Wales and there is an argument that taxpayers' money should be allocated to areas with weaker markets and greater need. The centralisation of all political, sporting and cultural institutions in one city, which is relatively inaccessible to 'our friends in the north', is a cause of some resentment in certain parts of Wales.

Cambo_Dai · April 10th, 2006, 03:14 AM

Finally some proper plans of the sports village site!!

http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/ObjView.as...3924&language=

The council have updated their website recently and seem to have added this - it includes a map that shows the position of the big apartment blocks too. Will read it now before bed (lol).

They've also gotten rid of the Unitary Development Plan map, which is a bit annoying as it marked out quite clearly the 'development areas' including Dumballs Rd and Roath Basin South Side.

Well - 2 seconds later; read it. No writing at all really. Just lots and lots of pictures, which none the less are pretty nice looking. But it appears a bit American - I think you'll understand what I mean. Particularly the Ice Hockey venue!

mustrum_ridcully · April 10th, 2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pondle

To answer Mustrum Ridcully, I do feel that Cardiff has benefitted disproportionately from public funding over recent years - CBDC, Millennium Stadium, Millennium Centre, National Assembly etc etc... Cardiff is a relatively prosperous part of Wales and there is an argument that taxpayers' money should be allocated to areas with weaker markets and greater need. The centralisation of all political, sporting and cultural institutions in one city, which is relatively inaccessible to 'our friends in the north', is a cause of some resentment in certain parts of Wales.

I agree totally about the North not getting any new facilities. To anyone living in S. Wales having something in Newport, Cardiff or Swansea doesn't make that big a difference - an hour or so's drive away. But to people in Wrexham or Conwy it's next to useless, I'd rather of seen the new pool in Wrexham than Swansea.

Cambo_Dai · April 10th, 2006, 01:25 PM

Another useful site on the Cardiff website;

http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/content.as...uage=&sortkey=

Not a huge amount on proper development buts there is info on the office market, the housing market, the city centre, the bay, the sports village etc.

Of most interest to me was getting the Cardiff & Vale GVA per capita figures (I'm an economist after all) which were 117.4 relative (where the UK as a whole is 100, and Wales 80.4). This makes Cardiff pretty affluent, richer than Kent for instance and most of the country outside the South East. However, it is considerably less than Bristol, Swindon and even Milton Keynes - so maybe thats why we've struggled to get the better quality jobs into the city. Having said that - average pay in Cardiff was £422 in 2004, just £2 behind the UK average - so no longer a 'low wage capital' I guess. But the fact it is lower while GVA higher suggests both redistribution from Cardiff to the rest of Wales and rather higher corporate profits than the UK average.

Scoop the Digger · April 10th, 2006, 02:34 PM

Agree with you all about Adam Street - the open car park they are about to build will stay there until SD2 is finished. Also, I believe that it is Cardiff Council policy not to allow any more parking spaces than are presently in the City Centre. I'm sure we could debate for many pages whether this is right or wrong!

Don't believe all you read about the glass needle - using the wind excuse is a good way of covering up for the fact the project was over budget. I still think that the finished product will be a positive addition to the Cardiff skyline - just not as good as it could have been.

To add to the Cardiff pool discussion - I believe the only department it doesn't meet FINA standards (swimming governing body) is in the depth of the pool - it isn't deep enough to do Olympic synchronized swimming! We're actually going to get two pools - the 50m one and the leisure one with slides, rapids, jacuzzi, etc.

Cambo_Dai · April 10th, 2006, 05:03 PM

The plans also seem to include a nice Aquarium viewable both through the floor of the glass atrium linking the different venues together and I suppose proper viewing areas - or atleast thats what is suggested by the 'concept' drawings. To be honest, I always thought the primary aim of this project was "family entertainment" (several of the PDFs on the website suggest this) and that the moniker "International Sports Village" was just a little bravado to make the venue sound grander than it is.

I agree about the defeatist attitude of the Assembly. Its actually indicative of a lot of Welsh attitudes, however. Theres this strange dichotomy between very great pride in being Welsh, bordering on jingoism sometimes, and on the other hand a lack of ambition as a nation in the cultural field.

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April 7th, 2006, 02:29 PM	#21
Gherkin actual gherkin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Leeds Posts: 13,727 Likes (Received): 157	Can't wait to see Bay Pointe go up. I visit Cardiff lots...love the place

April 7th, 2006, 06:29 PM	#23
Cambo_Dai Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 510 Likes (Received): 0	If one looks on the Cardiff Unitary Development Plan, the "Roath Basin Southside" action area extends to a greater area than shown on those diagrams. It extends down the eastern side of the Bay almost as far as the barrage, albeit in only a narrow strip not much wider than a road, a block of flats, and a waterside path. I also think its safe to say that the 'masterplan' shown there should be seen as very general - we're likely to see development on this site over quite a long time frame (though I'd be surprised if it lasts the 20 yrs I've seen suggested by officials) with some major modifications along the way. I wouldn't be surprised if the focus on biotech and media gets watered down to include financial and legal-type employers too, for instance. With regards the Capital Odeon site - has it really been closed that long? Turning this site into apartments would be a major head-ache due to its complete integration in the rest of the Capital complex. Conversion to a store, or perhaps offices (very handy location near Queen St) seems the most likely and best use of this site. Anything that interferes with the parking provision at the Capital would surely be rejected until St Davids II anyway, given the probably acute shortage of parking during construction. To be honest it'd be a bit boring for another residential tower to go up in Cardiff. It'd be much more exciting, and a much greater show of confidence in the city, if we had a medium to high rise office building. 10+ for offices I'd consider very interesting, even if it wasn't that tall.

April 7th, 2006, 06:38 PM	#24
URBANO Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 209 Likes (Received): 0	Andrew Thsnks for Roath Basin- you are absolutely right- it was there all along, just too blind to see it Sorry!

April 9th, 2006, 05:16 PM	#26
Cambo_Dai Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 510 Likes (Received): 0	Hi, about St David's II and Adam Street. I'm probably reading too much into it but it could be a sign that once they complete the main shopping centre, and the Adam Street area isn't needed for parking, something like the towers in their earlier planning application may be built. Look at the "planning view" here: http://www.stdavids2.com/pages/thede...ent_images.asp You can definitely see the things for Adam St on it. If I recall, the original Adam St plan included some parking for shoppers. I'm also sure they were originally suggesting having over 4000 car parking spaces as opposed to 3000 due to the expected increase in shopper numbers. I think the council probably queried the amount of parking on sustainable development grounds, so St Davids II dropped the plans for the parking at the towers on Adam St. They then may have decided to not put a fresh application in for this site until after St Davids II is built; if parking seems to be an issue they can then suggest some as part of this development, and if it isn't they can drop that aspect of the original scheme and keep the residential and small retail element.

April 9th, 2006, 05:44 PM	#27
Andrew Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cardiff/Newcastle Posts: 3,487 Likes (Received): 7	Yeah, I came to exactly the same conclusion as you on the Adam Street towers. I'm pretty sure they're not off the cards but I dont expect we'll see much info on them until after St David's 2 is either completed or at least in an advanced stage of development as they will not be able to even start work on the Adam Street site until the car park in St David's 2 is completed. I found this news article at icWales: http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html It's a bit of a shame but they give a fair enough reason. It does confuse me a bit though. They talk about the Swansea 50m swimming pool as the only option for Commonwealth Games use. Does that mean that the new pool to be built in the Sports Village will not be to that standard? I was under the impression that it was going to be a replacement for the Empire Pool and as such should be of a high enough standard to host the Commonwealth Games swimming events.

April 9th, 2006, 06:49 PM	#29
Pondle Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Swansea Posts: 750 Likes (Received): 0	I found this news article at icWales: http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html It's a bit of a shame but they give a fair enough reason. It does confuse me a bit though. They talk about the Swansea 50m swimming pool as the only option for Commonwealth Games use. Does that mean that the new pool to be built in the Sports Village will not be to that standard? I was under the impression that it was going to be a replacement for the Empire Pool and as such should be of a high enough standard to host the Commonwealth Games swimming events.[/QUOTE] I thought the proposed pool at the Sports Village was a leisure rather than competition facility... the Olympic-sized Wales National Pool in Swansea was the official replacement for the Empire Pool, funded with a grant from the Sports Council for Wales. I'm not exactly sure how the proposed pool at the Cardiff Sports Village will be financed, or who will own and operate it?

April 9th, 2006, 07:50 PM	#30
Andrew Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cardiff/Newcastle Posts: 3,487 Likes (Received): 7	Oh right, I didnt realise that. It may not be competition standard but I'm sure it's at least going to be a 50m pool though, I'm sure I read that somewhere!

April 9th, 2006, 10:23 PM	#34
Andrew Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cardiff/Newcastle Posts: 3,487 Likes (Received): 7	Bloody hell! OK, if it's costing £50 million then it had better be up to the job! Otherwise what the hell are they spending the money on?!? I think you're probably right there, they probably conveniently chose to 'forget' about the Cardiff pool. In fact seeing as their highest priority is to get a good story, I think that if the Cardiff pool is costing 50 million and it isnt going to be competition standard then that would make a much better story than the one they wrote. They could write about how much taxpayers money was being wasted on a pool that couldnt even host large scale sporting events when the one in Swansea can and yet cost 1/5th of the cost. That does leave other questions such why the assembly minister they spoke to also conveniently ignored the Cardiff pool ...

April 10th, 2006, 12:51 AM	#35
Pondle Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Swansea Posts: 750 Likes (Received): 0	Yeah visions are all very well, but actually constructing and operating the facilities are quite another matter! TBH I'm quite sceptical about the Sports Village. So much land seems to be allocated for retail or residential development, not to mention the 'regional super-casino', hotels and offices, I wonder what kind of space there will ultimately be for all the fancy facilities the Council is proposing. To answer Mustrum Ridcully, I do feel that Cardiff has benefitted disproportionately from public funding over recent years - CBDC, Millennium Stadium, Millennium Centre, National Assembly etc etc... Cardiff is a relatively prosperous part of Wales and there is an argument that taxpayers' money should be allocated to areas with weaker markets and greater need. The centralisation of all political, sporting and cultural institutions in one city, which is relatively inaccessible to 'our friends in the north', is a cause of some resentment in certain parts of Wales.

April 10th, 2006, 03:14 AM	#36
Cambo_Dai Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 510 Likes (Received): 0	Finally some proper plans of the sports village site!! http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/ObjView.as...3924&language= The council have updated their website recently and seem to have added this - it includes a map that shows the position of the big apartment blocks too. Will read it now before bed (lol). They've also gotten rid of the Unitary Development Plan map, which is a bit annoying as it marked out quite clearly the 'development areas' including Dumballs Rd and Roath Basin South Side. Well - 2 seconds later; read it. No writing at all really. Just lots and lots of pictures, which none the less are pretty nice looking. But it appears a bit American - I think you'll understand what I mean. Particularly the Ice Hockey venue!

April 10th, 2006, 01:25 PM	#38
Cambo_Dai Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 510 Likes (Received): 0	Another useful site on the Cardiff website; http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/content.as...uage=&sortkey= Not a huge amount on proper development buts there is info on the office market, the housing market, the city centre, the bay, the sports village etc. Of most interest to me was getting the Cardiff & Vale GVA per capita figures (I'm an economist after all) which were 117.4 relative (where the UK as a whole is 100, and Wales 80.4). This makes Cardiff pretty affluent, richer than Kent for instance and most of the country outside the South East. However, it is considerably less than Bristol, Swindon and even Milton Keynes - so maybe thats why we've struggled to get the better quality jobs into the city. Having said that - average pay in Cardiff was £422 in 2004, just £2 behind the UK average - so no longer a 'low wage capital' I guess. But the fact it is lower while GVA higher suggests both redistribution from Cardiff to the rest of Wales and rather higher corporate profits than the UK average.

April 10th, 2006, 02:34 PM	#39
Scoop the Digger Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 18 Likes (Received): 0	Agree with you all about Adam Street - the open car park they are about to build will stay there until SD2 is finished. Also, I believe that it is Cardiff Council policy not to allow any more parking spaces than are presently in the City Centre. I'm sure we could debate for many pages whether this is right or wrong! Don't believe all you read about the glass needle - using the wind excuse is a good way of covering up for the fact the project was over budget. I still think that the finished product will be a positive addition to the Cardiff skyline - just not as good as it could have been. To add to the Cardiff pool discussion - I believe the only department it doesn't meet FINA standards (swimming governing body) is in the depth of the pool - it isn't deep enough to do Olympic synchronized swimming! We're actually going to get two pools - the 50m one and the leisure one with slides, rapids, jacuzzi, etc.

April 10th, 2006, 05:03 PM	#40
Cambo_Dai Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 510 Likes (Received): 0	The plans also seem to include a nice Aquarium viewable both through the floor of the glass atrium linking the different venues together and I suppose proper viewing areas - or atleast thats what is suggested by the 'concept' drawings. To be honest, I always thought the primary aim of this project was "family entertainment" (several of the PDFs on the website suggest this) and that the moniker "International Sports Village" was just a little bravado to make the venue sound grander than it is. I agree about the defeatist attitude of the Assembly. Its actually indicative of a lot of Welsh attitudes, however. Theres this strange dichotomy between very great pride in being Welsh, bordering on jingoism sometimes, and on the other hand a lack of ambition as a nation in the cultural field.