daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 10th, 2006, 08:31 PM   #21
engiNerd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 44
Likes (Received): 0

AltinD: What is district cooling? I have never heard of that kind of cooling.
__________________
"The engineer is the key figure in the material progress of the world. It is his engineering that makes a reality of the potential value of science by translating scientific knowledge into tools, resources, energy and labor to bring them into the service of man. To make contributions of this kind the engineer requires the imagination to visualize the need of society and to appreciate what is possible as well as the technological and broad social age understanding to bring his vision to reality."
engiNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 10th, 2006, 08:33 PM   #22
Cymen
Just another user
 
Cymen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,921
Likes (Received): 40

Let's hope this road won't become more known for it's traffic......!
Really nice project, but I think Dubai will need metro trains real soon!
__________________
"Amsterdam is the world's smallest metropolis" - Mick Jagger

I'm not a slave to a god that doesn't give a shit!
Cymen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2006, 08:35 PM   #23
malec
Rrrraaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!
 
malec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cork
Posts: 9,598
Likes (Received): 125

It's already very well known for its traffic
malec no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2006, 09:21 PM   #24
AltinD
The Modecator
 
AltinD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: TIRANA / Dubai / Vienna
Posts: 31,827
Likes (Received): 6071

Quote:
Originally Posted by engiNerd
AltinD: What is district cooling? I have never heard of that kind of cooling.
District cooling is running chilled water throughout the building, with a network of pipes. The water is chilled in some kind of central chilling facility that may serve an entire block or even a bigger aerea, and the water that comes back is recycled, re-chilled and pomped out again. So basically the system is similar (in a way) to central heating.

As far as i know this is an American invention and is used in USA and Toronto as well.

Initially American companies were involved in Dubai, but now the biggest developers in the country are building their own facilities to supply their masterplaned comunities, of course using the same technology.
AltinD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2006, 09:23 PM   #25
AltinD
The Modecator
 
AltinD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: TIRANA / Dubai / Vienna
Posts: 31,827
Likes (Received): 6071

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymen
... I think Dubai will need metro trains real soon!
And they are comming ... in 4 years.
AltinD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2006, 09:56 PM   #26
dubaiflo
Back in the Sandpit
 
dubaiflo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Munich | Dubai | London
Posts: 15,037
Likes (Received): 35

if there is no delay

nice post malec.

and also good point there on the AC environmental issue altin
dubaiflo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2006, 10:47 PM   #27
engiNerd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 44
Likes (Received): 0

Thanks AltinD, thats kinda what I figured, but wanted to ask first. I know this method of cooling is used at some universities and a maybe few office parks, but its use is not widespread here in the US. With developments like this with completely brand new infrastructure I would bet this would be pretty efficient both with cost and energy usage.

In the dryer areas like Denver and the Southwest, typically larger buildings will opt to use evaporative cooling with cooling towers and such as they are very efficient with low humidity. I know its the desert there and all, but being so close to the water, does it get pretty humid? Because thats obviously the worst case scenario when it comes to cooling (hot and humid).

I used to work for an MEP engineering company (I do structural now though) and this stuff interests me some.
__________________
"The engineer is the key figure in the material progress of the world. It is his engineering that makes a reality of the potential value of science by translating scientific knowledge into tools, resources, energy and labor to bring them into the service of man. To make contributions of this kind the engineer requires the imagination to visualize the need of society and to appreciate what is possible as well as the technological and broad social age understanding to bring his vision to reality."
engiNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2006, 10:50 PM   #28
soup or man
Avant Garde
 
soup or man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,758
Likes (Received): 864

SZR is like LA's Wilshire Blvd. Complete with skyscrapers and snarled traffic. But SZR is getting a metro line in 4 years whereas LA will get a subway...eventually. =\
__________________
Far from basic.
soup or man no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 12:35 AM   #29
Jue
Perception
 
Jue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Houston/Shanghai
Posts: 537
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief
I'm aware that there are some truly wonderful buildings in Dubai. I was simply pointing out that whilst Dubai is truly experiencing an astounding construction boom, with many, many towers stretching over 250m high, unfortunately, I do not feel that many of these towers are of a high quality.
I am unsure what your standards for quality are.
Quote:
When you're building a city from pretty much nothing, as in Dubai, you have an opportunity to do things right, to be innovative. How much innovation do you see in these towers?
A tremendous amount of it as compared to any other city in existence. Ordinary-appearing office blocks are superb when the norm is unmitigated crappiness.
Quote:
I also worry about the environmental impact these buildings will have. How many of these buildings will be fully air conditioned energy-easting monsters? Which of these buildings has a low-energy cooling and ventilation system in place? Are the buildings and consturction methods sustainable?
Even inefficient high-rises are vastly superior in conservation than single-family sprawl, which more or less makes the point moot. I do know certain developments are using advanced glass technology and district cooling to reduce energy waste.
Quote:
Also, looking down SZR, many of the buildings are simple boxes only differentiated by their different cladding colours. Uninspiring.
As opposed to rows of thirty identical apartment blocks, or boxes that make one cringe independently of comparison? You cannot expect every tower to be a revolution in itself.
Quote:
With all due respect, what's your point? We're not talking an average Texas city - we're talking about Dubai, which has aspirations to become a great world city. That doesn't come about through height alone. You could take any of those towers and put them in any average city and they'd be landmarks. That doesn't mean they're any good.
World cities do not necessarily have great architecture. For example, I find both Tokyo and Shanghai positively hideous: only a pitiful handful of landmarks strewn among thousands of decrepit blocks where design was not even considered in the building process.

Name a city that can rival Dubai in creativity, and I will start listening. Mind you, the city must have a multitude of buildings too; constructing a few landmark towers amidst low-rises is not hard; Dubai has its own share of standouts. Find me a city with hundreds of ordinary buildings better looking than these that you criticise. The only one I can think of is Hong Kong, and its residences fall short in comparison.

Thanks.

Last edited by Jue; April 11th, 2006 at 12:48 AM.
Jue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 01:59 AM   #30
Chief
Izzle Bizzle
 
Chief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,504
Likes (Received): 13

I don't understand why I'm being hit with so much attitude. I've been polite in my posts, and I recognise that Dubai has some truly world-class buildings. If you disagree with me, then make an argument and say so, don't just call me a wierdo because I've dared to not toe the line of "ohmyGodamazingbuildingswowsotallandshiny!!!1!111!!!".

And AltinD, I don't remember "talking the expert", nor did I claim to be an 'expert'. I simply posed a series of questions. The district cooling sounds like a great idea, particularly if it's achieving a 40% energy consumption reduction. UV treated glass is nothing new, however.

These are supposed to be modern buildings for a modern, high-tech city. I'm simply asking where the innovation is. Well, district cooling certainly sounds like an awesome innovation - I'm off to Google it.

Less of the attitude. More of the discussion, please.
__________________
"What's the difference between Mexico and New Mexico?"
Chief no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 02:23 AM   #31
Chief
Izzle Bizzle
 
Chief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,504
Likes (Received): 13

Just saw Jue's post after posting my own reply... here goes...

Firstly, thank you for offering some intelligent replies.

To pull together several of your comments, you talk about single-family sprawl, cities full of decrepit blocks with few landmarks and a 'norm of unmitigated crappiness'. I put it to you that what's happening today in Dubai will create a city similar to Tokyo and Shanhai within 20-40 years. I don't see much emphasis on building communities, there appears to be little public transport infrastructure (I mean the city's not even half-way built yet and it already has traffic problems!) and a lot of buildings that look different from each ither but don't appear to pull together in any way.

I'm no expert on Dubai, but I just feel that there are a lot of opportunities being missed here. Look at the Dongtan eco-city that is being proposed for China; I would hold that up as an example of how to go about building a city. I think what's happening today in Dubai is a truly incredible thing - it's development on an incredible scale. I just wish that instead of throwing up tower after tower, they were creating communities, infrastructure and something that will stand the test time.

As for a city to rival Dubai (btw, you've already clearly been "listening" :P), I would put the Dongtan project forward. Of course, there is no city that can rival Dubai in terms of development today, except maybe Shanghai. But you put creativity forward as the marker - Dubai is only being creative in the sense that it is building a city out of nothing. The palm islands, the 'World' islands, the underwater hotel - these are all creative projects. But is the way in which DUbai is building itself creative? I would argue it is not. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion.

Finally, you said world cities don't always feature great architecture. I didn't say that either.
Quote:
Find me a city with hundreds of ordinary buildings better looking than these that you criticise.
London. Paris. Truly beautiful cities, with some gorgeous residences - both old and new.

I could go on, buit it's late and I'm tired!
__________________
"What's the difference between Mexico and New Mexico?"
Chief no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 02:26 AM   #32
Jue
Perception
 
Jue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Houston/Shanghai
Posts: 537
Likes (Received): 1

I didn't call you a weirdo.

No, I do not worship what they build in Dubai, only that I believe them better than all else I have seen on a one-by-one basis. Descending the list of tallest for Dubai versus any other city, Dubai excels in the string of one-on-one comparisons. However, I do understand what you say from a different perspective, the collective one: that there is poor relationship between buildings in Dubai. The city will soon have more 300m towers than any other city, yet would in atmosphere still fail to best cities such as New York, where a handful of standout towers work in synergy rather than against each other.

In short, my assertion is that Dubai has great tower design, but where the multitude of 'scrapers are lined up indiscriminately - and ultimately, where fairly well-designed master-planned developments still fail to synergise with each other.

London and Paris are gorgeous, but are for the most part not populated by skyscrapers. The discussion is only relevant to predominantly high-rise cities.

Each to their own.

Last edited by Jue; April 11th, 2006 at 02:32 AM.
Jue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 02:48 AM   #33
malec
Rrrraaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!
 
malec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cork
Posts: 9,598
Likes (Received): 125

Dubai has its fair share of sprawl too you know, on average it's not a dense city. There are 3 high-rise areas, the old centre (ie creek area), SZR/business bay/burjdubai (business district outside the centre) and the marina area which is in the suburbs pretty much. I don't know how much of this is true so someone correct this if it's wrong. As urban planning goes, each project seems to be well planned and also integrates well with the surroundings (such as burj dubai and business bay together). On the citywide scale though lots of these projects that might be very well planned themselves, might be thrown into a random location and this is creating traffic problems.
malec no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 02:55 AM   #34
Chief
Izzle Bizzle
 
Chief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,504
Likes (Received): 13

Could anyone who lives in Dubai talk about the public trnasport there? It seriously worries me that the city is to continue experiencing exponential growth for at least the coming decade, but is already suffering from traffic problems.

Is this because there are roads projects that aren't finished yet? Or are the roads poorly designed? Is there any other option for getting around other than the car? What public transport is planned? Is it viable to live in Dubai without owning a car?
__________________
"What's the difference between Mexico and New Mexico?"
Chief no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 03:06 AM   #35
malec
Rrrraaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!
 
malec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cork
Posts: 9,598
Likes (Received): 125

Altin would probably know loads about this.

I think it's because years ago they didn't predict this rediculous growth, most of the traffic is in the older parts. There are loads of roads being built and this also creates problems during construction. There are more reasons I presume but am too tired and want to go to bed

Read about this stuff here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...6&page=2&pp=20
malec no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 03:10 AM   #36
Citystyle
Watch my Chops
 
Citystyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perth,
Posts: 5,932
Likes (Received): 500

^ I think dubai's roads are quite good but SZR is a single road going aross the city thats dealing with heaps and heaps of trafic and there needs to be an alternate route.

There is a huge network of trains planned, dubailand, to the airport, up the palms around the creek and so on. Like i said SZR is a cross city highway.
__________________
Sec. 31 But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as anyone can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others. Nothing was made by God for man to spoil or destroy. And thus considering the plenty of natural provisions there was a long time in the world, and the few spenders, and to how small a part provision the industry of one man could extend itself, and ingross itself to the prejudice of others.
- John Locke
Citystyle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 03:12 AM   #37
malec
Rrrraaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!
 
malec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cork
Posts: 9,598
Likes (Received): 125

There are parallel roads to SZR getting built but still, cars are really part of the dubai culture
malec no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 04:25 AM   #38
Melanie B
BlizWizz
 
Melanie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 26
Likes (Received): 0

Dubai should take a lead not only as it is doing so in the construction of the building but also in looking to the future in infrastructure. Obviously there is the mass transit/heavy rail components already planned, and some small PRT in one of the mega projects, but what about more PRT. Dubai has the vision and funds to fund and bootstrap a system such as ULTra (being intial used in an initial installation at Heathrow Airport). Several millions of investment would at this stage really get PRT off the ground and the opportunity in Dubai to get in before a massive heavy rail network. So to those that run Dubai I call for them to have the vision to invest in PRT based on something like ULtra which would truely create a world class city transport infrastructure, and get this technology recognised for other cities to adopt.
Melanie B no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 04:52 AM   #39
Krazy
Kool Kat
 
Krazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 12,557
Likes (Received): 35

from flickr

Krazy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2006, 02:04 PM   #40
Marco Polo
Registered User
 
Marco Polo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,532

Just visited Dubai, first time in 5 years. The progress is estounding !!!!! Phenomenal. Loved a lot of new buildings. Construction everywhere, and relatively well planned. The density is slowly coming to the new areas. It is all so nice to see.

On the negative side: SZR - what a horrible idea. It is so anti-urban, so regressive. To have skyscrapers lined up along anextremely busy, 8 lane highway, with no possibility to cross it on a long stretch, is a very bad idea. It is all upside down: the highway should be behing garage boxes, NOT in front of the main entrances.
Marco Polo no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu