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Old April 14th, 2006, 01:32 AM   #101
nick_taylor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine
Well, let's look at the real figures. Here you can find the official population figures for Greater London at the 2001 UK census: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/H.asp

Between the 1991 census and 2001 census the population of Greater London went from 6,829,291 to 7,172,091. That's a 5.0% increase for these 10 years, i.e 0.49% growth rate per annum.

Here you can see the official population figure for New York City at the 2000 US census: http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-2.pdf

Between the 1990 census and 2000 census the population of New York City went from 7,322,564 to 8,008,278. That's a 9.4% increase for these 10 years, i.e 0.9% growth rate per annum, almost double that of Greater London.

Sorry to shatter some dreams, but figures show that NYC's population is growing at a higher rate than Greater London.
If you actually took a long-term approach to London's population you'd notice that it was loosing population post-WW2 and has in the last 2 decades seen actual growth. So while that growth might not look significant, its actually the beginning of an upward growth cycle. At current rates its net growth of 80,000 in London and 40,000 for New York (but that takes into account revised census figures for New York and not for London). Its possible that over the course of the next few years this could pop up to an extra 0.1mn people in London every year - especially as London is becoming a more attractive destination for: a) The super-rich (eg Russian oligarchy) b) The innovation classes (eg academics and those in the finance sector) c) The foreign students d) The masses.

Some people tend to get this thing in their heads that cities somehow can't be 'toppled' from their prominent position - London found out this way in the 30's and 40's where it not only lost its financial crown, but also saw its population surpassed. Nowadays London has re-taken the crown for finance and is rapidly catching up on New York.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 01:37 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by London
lol. Metropolitan, your signature, showing the GDP of London and New York, is wrong. You really are funny. You should correct it before everyone thinks your very dumb
GDP figures listed by Metropolitan are correct. Here you can double-check GDP figures for NYC and its suburban counties in the New York metropolitan area: http://www.usmayors.org/74thWinterMe...anuary2006.pdf

Here you can check GDP figures for Greater London and neighboring counties:
http://epp.eurostat.cec.eu.int/pls/p...2005-EN-AP.PDF

Figures show that New York, either as a city or as a metropolitan area, has GDP figures much higher than London (even including the home counties).

Please avoid accusing other users of being dumb before actually checking the facts.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 01:42 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_taylor
If you actually took a long-term approach to London's population you'd notice that it was loosing population post-WW2 and has in the last 2 decades seen actual growth. So while that growth might not look significant, its actually the beginning of an upward growth cycle. At current rates its net growth of 80,000 in London and 40,000 for New York (but that takes into account revised census figures for New York and not for London). Its possible that over the course of the next few years this could pop up to an extra 0.1mn people in London every year - especially as London is becoming a more attractive destination for: a) The super-rich (eg Russian oligarchy) b) The innovation classes (eg academics and those in the finance sector) c) The foreign students d) The masses.
Nick, all you write is purely speculative. It may be that in the future figures "could pop up to an extra 0.1mn people in London every year", as you seem to be dreaming for, but at the moment real figures, not speculations, show that NYC is growing faster than London.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 01:46 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjfox2002
Why do you roll your eyes?

Those projects are forecast to be underway next year. These aren't just my random guesses, there are hard facts to prove this.

LBT - see the development schedule on the official website

Heron - site will be vacant next year and it's a speculative build

Leadenhall - British Land announced just the other week that they're starting early on this one

20 Fenchurch Street - if this gets approved then Land Securities are very keen to start on it. The current site will be vacant soon.

St George's Wharf - Recently confirmed that marketing of the tower will start later this year, with construction following soon after

Beetham - judging by their other Beetham Towers around the UK, this will almost certainly start very soon after approval

Multiplex - Developers recently confirmed they'll start on the tower later this year, or early next.

Broadgate - already u/c!

Pan Peninsula - already u/c!
I roll my eyes because I'm a natural born pessimist. I figure I'd put expectations at zero, and I'll be pleasantly surprised all the time....

Besides, they don't always seem to be in too much of a hurry...
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Old April 14th, 2006, 01:50 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london lad
Lets not get into another London is the greatest..no its not ... you have nothing under construction..we will have etc etc thread

Stick to the thread topic- in fact a mod might as well lock this thread - When the bishopsgate foster scheme is officialy realised we can pick it up in one of the other london threads

Good to see people toook my advice lol - so..um... this thread about a little news story about hammersons northgate development which wont be officialy released for a couple of mths is now 6 pages of the usual city V city bollocks. I mean who gives a shit if London or NY city is growing the fastest population wise- Londons already overcrowded as it is- I for one dont realy want the city to reach 8 million as is predicted it will in the next decade or so as its already very congested & over crowded.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 01:59 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london lad
I for one dont realy want the city to reach 8 million as is predicted it will in the next decade or so as its already very congested & over crowded.
On that, London Lad, I can only totally agree with you. Public transport, particularly tube, are already to the point of breaking down. Everyone who has had to take the tube at rush hour in the morning know what I mean. Some people on this forum, from Newcastle and elsewhere, seem to be wishing that London was the largest city in the world with 30 million people or so, but guys, if you actually lived in London trust me you'd wish there be less inhabitants.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 02:19 AM   #107
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Quite the reverse, brisavoine. This is why London has the most operating buses in the world. This is why the tube has invested in more trains. This is why, brisavoine... this is why.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 02:31 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine
GDP figures listed by Metropolitan are correct. Here you can double-check GDP figures for NYC and its suburban counties in the New York metropolitan area: http://www.usmayors.org/74thWinterMe...anuary2006.pdf

Here you can check GDP figures for Greater London and neighboring counties:
http://epp.eurostat.cec.eu.int/pls/p...2005-EN-AP.PDF

Figures show that New York, either as a city or as a metropolitan area, has GDP figures much higher than London (even including the home counties).

Please avoid accusing other users of being dumb before actually checking the facts.
Several problems Mike. The first is that the populations differ. The second is that one is £GMP (GDP), the other € GDP PPS. The third is that the Eurostat figures aren't for metro areas and to my knowledge I've not seen an economy figure for London's metro - only a population of around 18mn. Taking a rough estimation from the Eurostar NUTS regions though the London Metro economy is around €662,979mn. In around 2002 prices this is around $681,343mn. Naturally these figures are just guestimates and theres probably a s.d. of $100's per capita, but doesn't look to bad.

London: 18mn (NUTS region population economy used: 17.8mn)
2002: $681.3bn
Per capita: $37,850

New York: 21mn
2002: $810.1bn
Per capita: $38,576

Just watch that gap go!




Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine
Nick, all you write is purely speculative. It may be that in the future figures "could pop up to an extra 0.1mn people in London every year", as you seem to be dreaming for, but at the moment real figures, not speculations, show that NYC is growing faster than London.
Back for more Mike! It is far from speculative, its actually the result of a long-term recovery of London from post-WW2 decline. London's actually growing faster now than at any other time in its history. It also comes back to this catch 22 situation - if New York is the faster growing city then you'd have to wonder whether it is actively building the infrastructure to cater for this growth. If London was growing slower (highly doubtful - general figures from both cities indicate otherwise), then I'd be pretty happy with the constant infrastructure improvements that London is getting - new railway lines (ELLE, CTRL, Crossrail, DLR, etc...), new tram networks, new airports (expanded LDN STN, new Heathrow T5 opening soon - alone bigger than any of New York's airports), etc....

So you could be right - but as a New Yorker you could very well be coming off worse in comparison to say a Londoner.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 02:59 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_taylor
The third is that the Eurostat figures aren't for metro areas and to my knowledge I've not seen an economy figure for London's metro - only a population of around 18mn.
Oh dear, more bombastic statements I see. It's nice to be enthusiast, but you need some degree of measure if you want people to take you seriously. Mumbai or Mexico City have 18 million inhabitants in their metropolitan areas, but certainly not London. Unlike forum enthusiasts, serious demographers estimate the population of London metropolitan area at around 12 to 13 million. That's approximately the 20th-largest metropolitan area in the world.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 03:32 AM   #110
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^ and yet London Overtakes New york!

Great News...thanks
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Old April 14th, 2006, 04:00 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine
Oh dear, more bombastic statements I see. It's nice to be enthusiast, but you need some degree of measure if you want people to take you seriously. Mumbai or Mexico City have 18 million inhabitants in their metropolitan areas, but certainly not London. Unlike forum enthusiasts, serious demographers estimate the population of London metropolitan area at around 12 to 13 million. That's approximately the 20th-largest metropolitan area in the world.
Bombastic - far from it (ps don't forget to reply the WNY post that I'm waiting for you to respond to). When you mean 'serious demographers' you mean demographia.com

That metro of 13,945,000 is across 6,279mile2. Now isn't the 21mn CMSA over an area of something like 18,000mile2 (the New York CSA has a population of 17.8mn across 11,842m2 - lower density than the 14mn 'metro' of London). Looks like New York's metro has a far lower density than London's! Would you believe that! London - denser than New York!

Well that would mean culling the less productive areas of the London metro - so re-calculating a 12-13mn metro for London from cutting off the extremeties would provide us with an economy of around €520bn. In 2002 prices thats $534bn. Divided by around 13mn thats $41,076 - so the average person in the London metro of 13mn is now richer than the average person in the New York metro! So the New York metro is not only poorer, but less dense and thats not even getting on transport links and other amenities which increase in density the smaller the London metro goes!

Looks like you got the better deal when London had a metro (as defined by the GLA) at 18mn.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 04:29 AM   #112
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Squeezing numbers as you do, you'd probably also end up proving that Mexico City is denser and with a higher GDP per capita than New York. The chauvinism of some people on this thread defies understanding.

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Last edited by brisavoine; April 14th, 2006 at 04:40 AM.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 07:53 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine
Squeezing numbers as you do, you'd probably also end up proving that Mexico City is denser and with a higher GDP per capita than New York. The chauvinism of some people on this thread defies understanding.

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finally sombody who says it
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Old April 14th, 2006, 11:14 AM   #114
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You trolls what does the GDP of London and NYC have to do with a god damn proposal?????????????stop talking about bullshit and start talking about the dam tower,wheres a mod!!!6pages of bs instead of chatter about the tower....this has got to be the hijacked thread of the year.congrats trolls.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 11:32 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine
Squeezing numbers as you do, you'd probably also end up proving that Mexico City is denser and with a higher GDP per capita than New York. The chauvinism of some people on this thread defies understanding.

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How am I squeezing number - I've clearly illustrated that your little plan of belittling London has backfired. The smaller the London metro, the richer it becomes and the density of this area increases above that of New York. You afterall did provide the sources!
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Old April 14th, 2006, 02:40 PM   #116
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Lets just get back to the tower, I think we have decided that London is, or will once again become, the most powerfull city in the world. On with the thread
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Old April 14th, 2006, 03:13 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by newcastle kid
Lets just get back to the tower, I think we have decided that London is, or will once again become, the most powerfull city in the world. On with the thread
Only You have decided that.please back to the tower
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Old April 14th, 2006, 04:30 PM   #118
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My dick is longer than your dick but they are both useless because there are no 18ft women.on with the thread.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 05:04 PM   #119
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OCK THREAD!
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Old April 14th, 2006, 07:24 PM   #120
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seriously, you guys just have *****-size issues. just shut the hell up.
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