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Old October 12th, 2007, 10:39 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Spain builds roads in a much faster pace as France or Germany, completing hundreds of kilometers annually. If Spain is not the 3rd in the world now, it will be soon.
Spain doesnt see nearly the traffic that Germany has for crying out loud.
Germany has by far the highest number of licensed cars (around twice as many as in Britain for example), it is a country which serves as an automotive hub for Europe in terms of transportation due to its geographical location.
Furthermore Spain gets shitloads of money from Germany, Britain and France to bring its infrastructure up to date.
Theres also no need for an extensive road network as youll have it in Germany.

Last edited by GNU; October 12th, 2007 at 11:01 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 10:44 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
There was a time that we were 30-40% wealthier than the Germans, but look how far we've fallen.
And when was that supposed to be? In 1945?
I doubt that Canada was ahead of Germany in terms of gdp per capita since the 60s up until 1990 when we had to absorb the GDR which brought our gdp per capita down quite heavily.

Last edited by GNU; October 12th, 2007 at 11:02 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 10:45 PM   #343
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Europeans usually use period instead of comma, so Chris just made a mistake.

EDIT: I didn't notice there's one more page to read, I'm referring to the guy from Shanghai.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 11:10 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNU View Post
Spain doesnt see nearly the traffic that Germany has for crying out loud.
They have Europe's busiest freeway

Quote:
Germany has by far the highest number of licensed cars (around twice as many as in Britain for example), it is a country which serves as an automotive hub for Europe in terms of transportation due to its geographical location.
Furthermore Spain gets shitloads of money from Germany, Britain and France to bring its infrastructure up to date.
Theres also no need for an extensive road network as youll have it in Germany.
Madrid has the most extensive urban freeway network in Europe. No shortage of traffic either.
Why wouldnt you need as an extensive network as Germany? The country needs to be well connected domestically aswell as internationally
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Old October 13th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by sl64 View Post
In summary, yeah, 17-18k seems very realistic for Canada.
Personally, I don't think the 15,000 plus kilometres of expressway is valid, if by this we mean a divided, multi-lane, contolled access highway with no stop signals, only grade-separated interchanges. If that definition is used, there would probably be between 5 and 10 thousand kilometres of expressway, or freeway, or parkway, or whatever term one prefers.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 01:44 PM   #346
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I calculate Germany have 12.624 kilometer of roads, classified as an Autobahn. However, some Autobahns have the lack of emergency lanes.

Another 1.561 kilometer is classified as "Autobahnähnlich" in the ADAC 1:150.000 road atlas.

This would bring the total amount in Germany to 14.185 kilometers.

However, there is one "but".

A lot of Autobahnähnliche (Motorway-like) roads are urban arterials with grade separated intersections. They often have the lack of emergency lanes, and proper on and offramps. They also have often a bad geometry, and a speed limit lower as 80km/h.

Some Autobahnähnliche roads doesn't have any median or middle barrier at all, these are not taken into the account of 1.561 kilometers.

However, a lot of Autobahnähnliche roads are fully up to motorway standards, sometimes even without a speed limit. Therefore, the number of 14.185 kilometers cannot all be taken into account of "motorway-grade roads".

Therefore, a direct comparison with Spain cannot be objectively made. Spanish Autovías are always up to motorway design standards, and German Gelbe Autobahnen do not always have full motorway features.

However, the discussion will dissapear within a few years, because Spains total motorway-grade length will soon be larger as all Autobahnen and Autobahnähnlich combined. In 2007, Spain is due to open 560 kilometers of Autovía and Autopista. This pace is likely to continue the next few years, since a lot of old Carretera Nacionals (National roads) are being rebuild to motorway standards. By 2010, Spain have likely overtaken Germany with ease on all classes.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 02:29 PM   #347
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^ It's also bigger than Germany. Thanks for the numbers! How's France doing in enlarging its network? It's even bigger than Spain.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 02:33 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS View Post
They have Europe's busiest freeway
And?

Quote:
Madrid has the most extensive urban freeway network in Europe.
Oh common, give me a source for this.

Quote:
No shortage of traffic either.
Why wouldnt you need as an extensive network as Germany? The country needs to be well connected domestically aswell as internationally
Spains population is much smaller than Germanys for starters.
The number of licensed cars is far smaller.
Spain gets its infrastructure funded by EU money, namely by Germany, Britain, France and Italy.
Spains is geographically far more isolated than Germany.
Germany borders to many populous countries whose motorists all have to go through Germany when they want to drive through Europe.
The traffic is immense here and bigger than in any other european country.
Spain on the other hand borders only to Portugal and France.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 02:36 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
^ It's also bigger than Germany. Thanks for the numbers! How's France doing in enlarging its network? It's even bigger than Spain.
No it isnt for heavens sake.
Not even remotely so.
How could it possibly be bigger?
Ive provided a source from the german governemnt which states that Germany ranks 3rd in termns of highway km.
Do you really want to tell us that Spain ranks 3rd? Especially since the country saw minimal investment prior to being an EU-member in its infrastructure?
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Old October 13th, 2007, 02:37 PM   #350
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Germany doent have the busiest roads in Europe.

Just to illustrate: The worlds busiest freeway is in a country with a population density of 3½ per km² - namely Route401 in Toronto
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Old October 13th, 2007, 02:38 PM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
ITherefore, a direct comparison with Spain cannot be objectively made. Spanish Autovías are always up to motorway design standards, and German Gelbe Autobahnen do not always have full motorway features.
Yeah, its exactly the other way round here.
Spanish roads are being counted as freeways which wouldnt get that trademark in Germany.

Quote:
However, the discussion will dissapear within a few years, because Spains total motorway-grade length will soon be larger as all Autobahnen and Autobahnähnlich combined.
Nonsense
Theyll never have a highway network that could compare to Germanys in terms of length.
Why dont you give us a source for your claim here?

Last edited by GNU; October 13th, 2007 at 02:49 PM.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 02:45 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS View Post

Germany doent have the busiest roads in Europe.
Of course it has.
We may not have the busiest highway, but thats down to federal reasons, which means that the traffic is evenly spreaded out.

Last edited by GNU; October 13th, 2007 at 04:01 PM.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 02:56 PM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNU View Post
And?



Oh common, give me a source for this.



Spains population is much smaller than Germanys for starters.
The number of licensed cars is far smaller.
Spain gets its infrastructure funded by EU money, namely by Germany, Britain, France and Italy.
Spains is geographically far more isolated than Germany.
Germany borders to many populous countries whose motorists all have to go through Germany when they want to drive through Europe.
The traffic is immense here and bigger than in any other european country.
Spain on the other hand borders only to Portugal and France.
The question here is not which country 'deserves' the most motorways, but which country has them.
And Spain has more motorway-like roads than germany, maybe not today but surely in 2-3 years. That's a fact.
And a source for Madrid having the most extensive motorway network in Europe? Just check a road map...
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Old October 13th, 2007, 03:02 PM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS View Post
Just to illustrate: The worlds busiest freeway is in a country with a population density of 3½ per km² - namely Route401 in Toronto
Like that says something. The density of the country says nothing about the density in cities or urban agglomerations.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 03:08 PM   #355
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In reponse to GNU's statement about population density in Spain as opposed to Germany earlier in the thread
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Old October 13th, 2007, 03:10 PM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpioe View Post
The question here is not which country 'deserves' the most motorways, but which country has them.
And Spain has more motorway-like roads than germany, maybe not today but surely in 2-3 years. That's a fact.
And a source for Madrid having the most extensive motorway network in Europe? Just check a road map...
Yes, give me a source pls.
Heres mine btw: (from the german state department for traffic and city developments)

Quote:
Das Netz der Bundesfernstraßen umfasst heute über 12.500 km Autobahnen und rund 41.000 km Bundesstraßen und bildet damit das dichteste Fernstraßennetz Europas. Obwohl die Fernstraßen nur rund 30 Prozent (bei den Autobahnen sogar nur 5 Prozent) des Gesamtnetzes darstellen, werden knapp 50 Prozent (bzw. auf BAB über 30 Prozent) der Fahrleistungen auf diesen Straßen abgewickelt.
http://www.bmvbs.de/Verkehr/Strasse-...on-Autobah.htm

Quote:
Deutschland hat eines der dichtesten Autobahnnetze der Welt und mit 12.044 Kilometern nach dem Interstate Highway System (75.376 km) in den USA und dem National Trunk Highway System (45.400 km) der Volksrepublik China das drittlängste (Quelle: Bundesministerium für Verkehr, Bau und Stadtentwicklung).
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn_%28Deutschland%29

btw: it also mentions that the highway network makes up for only 5 percent of the total network in Germany.

Now tell me something: How is Spain suposed to surpass Germany in this area, when:

a: the country depends on EU donations
b: the number of licensed cars is far far smaller
c: the population is far smaller
d: it hasnt got nearly as much traffic
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Old October 13th, 2007, 03:17 PM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS View Post

In reponse to GNU's statement about population density in Spain as opposed to Germany earlier in the thread
Dont get you point here.

Germany: Population: 82,314,900
Density: 230.9 /km² (50th)

Spain: Popualtion: 45,116,894
Density: 79 people per km2 /km² (106th)


and oh:

Quote:
By its central position in Europe, Germany is an important transportation hub. This is reflected in its dense and modern transportation networks. Probably most famous is the extensive motorway (Autobahn) network that ranks worldwide third largest in its total length and features lack of blanket speed limits on the majority of routes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany#Infrastructure

That should have been settled then
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Old October 13th, 2007, 03:23 PM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNU View Post

Now tell me something: How is Spain suposed to surpass Germany in this area, when:

a: the country depends on EU donations
b: the number of licensed cars is far far smaller
c: the population is far smaller
d: it hasnt got nearly as much traffic
a: not true
b: and?¿?¿
c: and¿?¿?
d: and?¿?¿
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Old October 13th, 2007, 03:31 PM   #359
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So according to you Spain isnt a net receiver of EU funds?


Quote:
At the heart of Spain’s concerns lies the fact that comparing Spain’s financial balance with the EU in 2000-06 and 2007-13, its net balance with the EU, which will have reached €48.7 billion in 2000-06, will be reduced to approximately €5 billion in 2007-13. This is due to both increased contributions to the budget, because of its relatively greater economic growth, and to reduced receipts from the EU budget as it ceases to qualify for cohesion, structural and agricultural funds. The Spanish Government recognises that its situation within the EU has changed to the better and that this will mean less financing from the EU budget than in the past. Spain accepts that its GDP is now almost at the average EU level (98.2% of EU-25 and 90% of EU-15). Nevertheless, it still seeks to ensure a smooth transition because its goal is to avoid becoming a net contributor before it reaches full real convergence with the EU-15. Thus, for a long time a net receiver of EU funds, Spain may now end up being a net contributor to the EU budget. Hence, the key question for Spain’s negotiators is not whether Spain will be a net contributor to the budget before 2013, which is largely discounted, but whether Spain is to suffer a sudden and abrupt loss of funds or if it will enjoy a mild and moderate phasing-out
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=4&gl=de

Quote:
Structural Funds and Cohesion Funds are funds allocated by the European Union for two related purposes, firstly support for the poorer regions of Europe, and, secondly, support for integrating European infrastructure especially in the transport sector. Current programmes run from 1 January 2000 to 31 December 2006, with €54.4 billion budget for Structural Funds, and €18bn for the Cohesion Fund.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 03:44 PM   #360
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Looks like someone is totally offtopic and jealous too.
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