daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 14th, 2010, 09:04 PM   #181
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,244
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
No. The word freeways imply a free flow of traffic, no traffic lights or intersections, though many people associate the word "free" as in "no tolls".
Well, as this native speaker of American English said some time ago on another thread, I read eons ago that a "freeway" was a toll-free limited-access highway. Gotta allow for language as it is actually used, not just official definitions.

And (as I also said on another thread, with the support of examples, although without photos ;-) ), Pennsylvania uses "freeway" and "expressway" interchangeably* - at least in so far as you'll sometimes see "freeway ends" signs and sometimes "expressway ends." But as far as what they name limited-access roads, I can't think of any freeways in the state. There are Turnpikes (toll roads), Expressways (including a couple of short toll roads in the Pittsburgh area), a Parkway (in the Pittsburgh area....)

*Interchangeably. Get it? I really didn't intend that pun.

EDIT: Which proves that, at least in Pennsylvania, an "Expressway" - capitalization deliberate - really does officially mean limited-access road, regardless of what Californians and the FHWA think.

Last edited by Penn's Woods; July 14th, 2010 at 09:11 PM.
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 14th, 2010, 09:08 PM   #182
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,244
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post


Why do you think they call them "freeways" in the US? Because they're free! You don't have to pay to drive on them. Tollways are the same way - you have to pay a toll to get on your way. Other kinds of roads are more regional - there are numerous "turnpikes" in Virginia but there are no tolls on them, but in New Jersey a "turnpike" always has tolls (I think)
Columbia Pike, Little River Turnpike, Leesburg Pike, and the like are all former toll roads (built in the early 19th century when just paving a road was state-of-the-art) that have kept their names. The Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike is (or was) a Virginia example of a post-World-War-II toll limited-access road that no longer charges tolls. But is the name still used? The Connecticut Turnpike likewise no longer charges tolls but definitely still uses its name officially. AND there are some Pikes (can't think of any Turnpikes but that doesn't mean there aren't any) in New Jersey of the early-19th-century type.
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 05:05 PM   #183
nerdly_dood
Possibly Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 951
Likes (Received): 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Columbia Pike, Little River Turnpike, Leesburg Pike, and the like are all former toll roads (built in the early 19th century when just paving a road was state-of-the-art) that have kept their names. The Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike is (or was) a Virginia example of a post-World-War-II toll limited-access road that no longer charges tolls. But is the name still used? The Connecticut Turnpike likewise no longer charges tolls but definitely still uses its name officially. AND there are some Pikes (can't think of any Turnpikes but that doesn't mean there aren't any) in New Jersey of the early-19th-century type.
Also Salem Turnpike in the Roanoke area. I don't know when it last had a toll, if ever, but it hasn't been anytime recent.
__________________
A government's primary duty is to protect and advance the three most fundamental human rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These rights imply the additional right to prudently guarded stupidity.

Socialism never took root in America because the poor there saw themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. -John Steinbeck
nerdly_dood no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 05:28 PM   #184
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,244
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
Also Salem Turnpike in the Roanoke area. I don't know when it last had a toll, if ever, but it hasn't been anytime recent.
I would assume it was a toll road; that's what "turnpike" originally meant. (The "pike" being the bar across the road that would prevent you passing until you'd paid your toll, at which point the tollkeeper would "turn" it to let you through.) "Pike" as in "Columbia Pike" is just a shortening. (Can you tell I know the Washington area? Went to college there.)

Can't find much about the history of that sort of road....
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 07:36 PM   #185
nerdly_dood
Possibly Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 951
Likes (Received): 42

As for what most people call roads in Virginia... Generally it goes something like this:

- Rural areas, it's a road
- Suburban/urban areas, it's a street, unless it's got 4 or more lanes, in which case it's an X-lane road.
- Limited access, grade-separated highways, it's a innerstate
- Two exceptions: The Beltway and The Parkway.
__________________
A government's primary duty is to protect and advance the three most fundamental human rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These rights imply the additional right to prudently guarded stupidity.

Socialism never took root in America because the poor there saw themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. -John Steinbeck
nerdly_dood no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 07:53 PM   #186
engenx4
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,017
Likes (Received): 12

for everyone who isn't australian or british, what do u call other main roads (roads which aren't always divided, can have traffic lights and level crossings)

map of australian roads: the grey roads are our freeways/motorways/interstates/autobahns (if u will).

the other lines are just plain ole' highways..what do u call them in ur country?


Brazil:

well, we have rodovia(singular) rodovias(plural), estrada(singular) estradas(plural), estrada-rural (rural area) = which are the same as freeways/motorways/interstates/autobahns/highways
engenx4 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 08:53 PM   #187
ttownfeen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: William T. Sherman's stomping grounds
Posts: 454
Likes (Received): 17

A highway is any road that connects different areas (IOW, it's not a local road).

An expressway is a highway that is built for high-speed travel, but is not access-controlled (it has at-grade intersections).

A freeway is an expressway that is access-controlled, whether it is tolled or not.

A tollway is a special class of freeway is that is tolled.
ttownfeen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 09:07 PM   #188
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19391

you got it!
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 09:14 PM   #189
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,244
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
you got it!
He's got it for portions of the US outside the Northeast (also outside the Chicago area) unless you're telling me I'm misusing my own language (and everyone else in this part of the country, including state agencies that put up "expressway ends" signs and name "Expressways" in New York, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia..., is misusing it too)... ;-)
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 09:15 PM   #190
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19391

MUTCD considers those freeways, but those states have refused so far to adopt that version of MUTCD and rename their freeways.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #191
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,244
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
MUTCD considers those freeways, but those states have refused so far to adopt that version of MUTCD and rename their freeways.
I'm not sure any government agency has the authority (or the ability) to regulate actual usage of language. And I'm certain individual Dutch people don't have the authority (or the ability) to regulate the usage of English by millions of native speakers.

Capisce?
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 09:20 PM   #192
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19391



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressway#United_States

Quote:
However, many states around the Great Lakes region and along the Eastern Seaboard have refused to conform their terminology to the federal definition. The following states officially prefer the term expressway instead of freeway to describe what are technically freeways in federal parlance: Connecticut,[32] Florida,[33] Illinois,[34] Maryland,[35] and West Virginia.[36] In those states, it is common to find Interstate highways which bear the name “expressway.” Minnesota officially uses "freeway" and "expressway" interchangeably (with both defined as what federal officials call freeways).
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 09:51 PM   #193
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,244
Likes (Received): 780

"Refused to conform"... I'm not sure there's any obligation on the states to adopt MUTCD terminology, so no question of "refusal." In fact "refusing to conform" sounds like a European country daring to defy Brussels' orders to ban moldy cheeses or change its time zone. ;-)

And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for people who've mostly never heard of the MUTCD to start saying "Schuylkill Freeway" or "BQF"....

So I'll continue using my native language in the way I always have, if it's okay with you.
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 10:01 PM   #194
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19391

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
So I'll continue using my native language in the way I always have, if it's okay with you.
I have no idea why you are so desperately trying to imply that I have, or think to have, the authority to tell you which words to use.

You are completely free to use any word you want to use to refer to freeway / motorway / expressway / highway. I'm just saying that, according to MUTCD, it is not the correct one.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2010, 01:31 PM   #195
Paddington
Registered User
 
Paddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Southland
Posts: 4,665
Likes (Received): 1261

"Freeway" is such a stupid term. What's it free of? Tolls? Nope. Traffic? Hardly.
Paddington no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2010, 02:57 PM   #196
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,244
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I have no idea why you are so desperately trying to imply that I have, or think to have, the authority to tell you which words to use.

You are completely free to use any word you want to use to refer to freeway / motorway / expressway / highway. I'm just saying that, according to MUTCD, it is not the correct one.
My point is that language doesn't work that way! If the entire population of a substantial part of the country uses "expressway" to mean limited-access road, that's what it means within that (sizable) speech community. "Correct," to me when I'm learning or using a foreign language [hint] means the way the native-speaking population (or at least adults with a certain level of education) communicate, and has nothing to do with abstract definitions in some obscure legal document - which really only apply among specialists when they're communicating with each other.

As for you pointing at the other poster's definitions and say "he got it".... If I then say (with ample examples) that it's different in the Northeast, coming back at me - several times - with the MUTCD definition cited as proof of what's "correct" comes across as an attempt on your part to say "you're wrong." Which (1) doesn't make sense linguistically for the reason I laid out in the previous paragraph and (2) is frankly rather out of line for a non-native speaker.

When non-native speakers of English (or for that matter English speakers from outside North America) ask "what expressway means" or "what freeway means," at least some of them are presumably interested in the way the words are actually used by the population, not just by the MUTCD and specialists. My remarks about northeastern usage are relevant information to them. If only because regional variation is part of the answer. Just like I keep asking on the British thread - no one's answered yet - whether the general public would call a road with a number like "A1(M)" a motorway, and whether roadgeeks would.

Peace?
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2010, 02:57 PM   #197
nerdly_dood
Possibly Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 951
Likes (Received): 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
"Freeway" is such a stupid term. What's it free of? Tolls? Nope. Traffic? Hardly.
Intersections.

It's got ramps for that, and nice soft concrete barriers for cars that miss the ramp.

All I know is that where I come from, there is no such thing as a freeway or an expressway, only streets, roads, innerstates and hahways.
__________________
A government's primary duty is to protect and advance the three most fundamental human rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These rights imply the additional right to prudently guarded stupidity.

Socialism never took root in America because the poor there saw themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. -John Steinbeck
nerdly_dood no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2010, 05:30 PM   #198
Bartolo
Registered User
 
Bartolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Hamilton (Dundas), ON
Posts: 387
Likes (Received): 1

Come to Ontario, where we call everything a Highway. A little 2 lane Provincial Highway to a 18 lane Express Collector Highway. Its all a Highway.
Bartolo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2010, 05:35 PM   #199
nerdly_dood
Possibly Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 951
Likes (Received): 42

edit.
__________________
A government's primary duty is to protect and advance the three most fundamental human rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These rights imply the additional right to prudently guarded stupidity.

Socialism never took root in America because the poor there saw themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. -John Steinbeck
nerdly_dood no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2010, 05:41 PM   #200
Bartolo
Registered User
 
Bartolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Hamilton (Dundas), ON
Posts: 387
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
Even suburban streets with parked cars on both sides and no line down the middle?
Actually under the Highway Traffic Act, that technically is a Highway. All roads are considered Highways.
Bartolo no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium