daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: So?
EU 388 79.51%
USA 100 20.49%
Voters: 488. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools
Old June 16th, 2005, 03:52 PM   #181
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,952
Likes (Received): 780

909 is quite correct. Europe is not a geographical continent, but a "cultural" continent.

However, it can fully be described as a continent, as it was European's that defined the world's continents in the beginning (well, actually our Egyption friends first used the term - but in a far more limited way). Originally, continents were based on a very loose cultural division (and geographical land mass), the term predates understanding of tectonic plates.

After the discovery of tectonic plates, continents were revised and Europe, although technically part of the Asian continent, remained.

There are plenty of other discrepencies when discussing continents. Australia, usually defined as a single continent, is often technically viewed as part of the Indian - Australian plate.



or



Likewise, New Zealand, which is in two seperate tectonic plates, is usually defined as part of the Oceana continent, or Australian/Pacific continent. (It can get quite confusing)

One very important thing to remember, is that different country's teach different definitions of Continents. Some, like the U.S. and Canada use a 7 continent world, while others (generally the rest of the planet), teach a 6 continent world (although the 6 continents can again vary depending on country)

As all of them are technically incorrect (and don't follow the tectonic plates) then none of them are "wrong".

Either way, the U.S and Europe (and most other country's) define a set of either 6 or 7 continents that includes Europe as a continent. So, one can definately say, Europe is a continent. However, it is true that it is not a geograhical continent as it is on the same plate as the rest of Asia.

But then there are plenty of other example's where geographical reality differs from continental description. India (on the same plate as Australia), New Zealand (on two seperate plates), Mexico (again on two plates) etc etc.

As for the 2nd point. Europe's border is pretty well defined these day's, although there are small flucuations with the exact area. However, these flucuations don't vary greatly.

I would also agree with you that the United States should be compared more with the EU than with Europe. The EU is a single economic and political region (although the recent new comers have yet to fully amalgamate into the union). The freedoms of travel, living, work, trade etc within the union, is not dissimilar to that of a single country, certainly closer than anything else.

Anyway, thanks for the information you posted about continents!
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old June 16th, 2005, 03:59 PM   #182
Arpels
Αλέξανδρος
 
Arpels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Guarda/Barreiro
Posts: 53,197
Likes (Received): 378

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
Actually, Europe is larger then the U.S. including Alaska. Although most of the population is on the western side. Then again, the bulk of the U.S. population is on the Eastern side.

Europe 10,600,00km² link
United States (including Alaska) 9,631,418km² link
correcto, people normaly onli count the west part and forguet part of Russia!!
Arpels no está en línea  
Old June 16th, 2005, 04:05 PM   #183
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,952
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpels
correcto, people normaly onli count the west part and forguet part of Russia!!
Well, I don't know about where you live, but here people count European Russia, and EVERY encyclopedia and EVERY atlas includes European Russia.

If there are people who don't include European Russia that you know, then quite simply, those people are wrong - they should pick up at Atlas.

I suppose it's like many American's I've met consider Hawaii part of North America, when it is not. It's a mistake and you'll never find any Atlas or encylopedia or any geography lecturer that will claim it as such.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea  
Old June 16th, 2005, 04:18 PM   #184
Arpels
Αλέξανδρος
 
Arpels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Guarda/Barreiro
Posts: 53,197
Likes (Received): 378

of course I count Russia as Europe but the position of thys country between too continents make some confusion to certain minds, the same apenns with caucasos and part of Turkey, some times political or cultural situation is a fact to people dont includ thys areas in Europe map but as you said the best thing to do is look the atlas because the borders are very well define there.
Arpels no está en línea  
Old June 16th, 2005, 07:41 PM   #185
aatbloke
Registered Abuser
 
aatbloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middlesborough, Cleveland, GB
Posts: 200
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by 909
I am not an expert, that's true. But this discussion depends on the used definitions:


Europe isn't geological a continent:






And that's what i was talking about in my previous reply: "Only problem with Europe is defining it's borders. Europa is not a continent, but it's like India a sub-continent and with that a part of Eurasia. The borders of Europe are not political or truely physical, but psycholical and in some cases cultural."
And it also depends on which defenition is used for continent.




And India is a subcontinent:






I never talked about the EU as a country, that's something you made up. But when we are comparing highways in the US with those in Europe, i think it's better to compare the US with the EU and nog with Europe. That's what i was talking about, but i should have been more clear about that. My mistake.

And talking about geography lessons, it looks like we can follow lessons together...

Europe is a continent in its own right. Look at any atlas. Take any geography class. Eurasia is a landmass, not a continent, although (for the most part) it shares a tectonic plate. It seems you now agree with me that the Indian subcontinent not only includes India but Pakistan and Bangladesh...which sit on a tectonic plate of their own.

By your argument, North America isn't a continent either, given that part of Europe (the western part of Iceland) sits on the North American plate.

The seven continents of the world: North America, South America, Europe, Africa, Asia, Oceania, Antarctica. Primary school stuff...
aatbloke no está en línea  
Old June 16th, 2005, 07:46 PM   #186
aatbloke
Registered Abuser
 
aatbloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middlesborough, Cleveland, GB
Posts: 200
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
909 is quite correct. Europe is not a geographical continent, but a "cultural" continent.


Anyway, thanks for the information you posted about continents!

It is geographically a continent. However, like other continents, it isn't a geological continent in it's own right.
aatbloke no está en línea  
Old June 16th, 2005, 07:48 PM   #187
Arpels
Αλέξανδρος
 
Arpels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Guarda/Barreiro
Posts: 53,197
Likes (Received): 378

correct geographically is a continent acording to man division.
Arpels no está en línea  
Old June 16th, 2005, 08:52 PM   #188
909
-
 
909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,419

Quote:
Originally Posted by aatbloke
Europe is a continent in its own right. Look at any atlas. Take any geography class. Eurasia is a landmass, not a continent, although (for the most part) it shares a tectonic plate. It seems you now agree with me that the Indian subcontinent not only includes India but Pakistan and Bangladesh...which sit on a tectonic plate of their own.

By your argument, North America isn't a continent either, given that part of Europe (the western part of Iceland) sits on the North American plate.

The seven continents of the world: North America, South America, Europe, Africa, Asia, Oceania, Antarctica. Primary school stuff...
Still some sources leave room for more than one defenition of 'continent' and the question if Eurasia is one continent or a landmass which holds more than one continent.
I'm not suggesting that you are wrong in your replies, but there is no reason to assume there is only one defenition for continent. You have learned that there are seven continents, while some learn other:

Quote:
Eurasia is the landmass composed of the continents of Europe and Asia. It can be considered a supercontinent, part of a supercontinent of Africa-Eurasia, or simply a continent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia
Quote:
Europe is geologically and geographically a peninsula, forming the westernmost part of Eurasia. It is conventionally considered a continent, which, in this case, is more of a cultural distinction than a geographic one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe
Quote:
Asia is the central and eastern part of the continent of Eurasia, defined by subtracting the European peninsula from Eurasia. Geologically and geographically, however, Asia is not considered a continent or a subcontinent.

The exact boundaries are vaguely defined, especially between Asia and Europe: the demarcation between Asia and Africa is the isthmus of Suez. The boundary between Asia and Europe runs via the Dardanelles, the Sea of Marmara, the Bosphorus, the Black Sea, the ridges of the Caucasus (according to others, through the Kuma-Manych Depression), the Caspian Sea, the Ural River (according to others, the Emba River) and the Ural Mountains to Novaya Zemlya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia
Quote:
A continent (Latin continere, "to hold together") is a large continuous mass of land on the planet Earth.

There is no single standard for what defines a continent, and therefore various cultures and sciences have different lists of what are considered to be continents. In general, a continent must be large in area, consist of non-submerged land, and have geologically significant borders. While some consider that there are as few as four or five continents, the most commonly used counts are six or seven.

Two of the largest disagreements in listing continents are whether Europe and Asia should be considered separately or combined into Eurasia, and whether North America and South America should be considered separately or combined into America. A few geographers have also suggested grouping Europe, Asia, and Africa into a continent of Eurafrasia (see Africa-Eurasia).

The seven continent model is taught in the United States, while the six continent (combined Eurasia) model is also taught in North America. The five continent (combined Americas, no Antartica) model is commonly taught in Europe and South America including United Kingdom and Mexico. The continents of the "five continents" model (as shown by the five Olympic Games flag rings) are speculated to be the five permamently populated continents (viewing Antarctica as only temporarily populated, and all the Americas as one).

http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Continent
In the end, it's just a matter of used defenitions. And again, if you are talking about taking a geography class you would have known this...
__________________
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player. That struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Last edited by 909; June 16th, 2005 at 09:04 PM.
909 no está en línea  
Old June 16th, 2005, 09:00 PM   #189
eomer
Bring Constantinople back
 
eomer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Val de Marne (Paris)
Posts: 13,998
Likes (Received): 4733

Quote:
Originally Posted by aatbloke
It is geographically a continent. However, like other continents, it isn't a geological continent in it's own right.
If Europe is considered as a continent, North and South America must be considered as two separated continents too. There are 7 continents.

But distinction is more cultural than geological, that's sure.
__________________
Cordialement, Kind Regards
Eomer
Look to my coming, at first light, on the fifth day. At dawn, look to the East.
A l'aube du cinquième jour, regardez vers l'est
eomer no está en línea  
Old June 17th, 2005, 12:10 AM   #190
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,952
Likes (Received): 780

Guys, 909 is correct in saying that continents, and their definition, are open to differences based on cultural acceptance.

There are 7 continents, if you live in that part of the world that teaches "7" continents. But other country's teach different definitions.

All of them are technically "wrong", as the maps show, if continents were based purely on tectonic plates as they are supposed to be, then we would have different continents.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea  
Old June 17th, 2005, 05:17 AM   #191
aatbloke
Registered Abuser
 
aatbloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middlesborough, Cleveland, GB
Posts: 200
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by 909
Still some sources leave room for more than one defenition of 'continent' and the question if Eurasia is one continent or a landmass which holds more than one continent.
I'm not suggesting that you are wrong in your replies, but there is no reason to assume there is only one defenition for continent. You have learned that there are seven continents, while some learn other:





In the end, it's just a matter of used defenitions. And again, if you are talking about taking a geography class you would have known this...

I honestly don't know where you drum this from. In the UK, geography has always been taught with seven continents, not five as you state. I would therefore say you did not take geography in the UK school curriculum.

I've listed the seven in an earlier post - mind you, that was the world thirty years ago. Clearly, given what you say schools somewhere in the world are adopting different methods these days. It's little wonder the world's so screwed up.

Seriously - define "cultural" definition. I'm fully aware that continents geographically don't share the geological tectonic plates. Who on earth seriously terms "Eurasia" in a real-world application? What defines a European person from an American or an Asian? Europe is a continent, all said and done. If I'm to qualify that by stating that it is a geographical continent in this pedantic day and age, then so be it.

Going back to what you said about highways, there is no EU-wide standard in place unlike the US Interstate system, so I'm not sure why you'd compare on this basis - unless you're comparing areas of similar size. I would compare France with the US, or the UK with the US when it comes to road infrastructure. Traffic density for example is a major player; the US has 21 times the length of road network that the UK has, yet it has just eight times as many cars on the road.

Perhaps you've been reading too much George Orwell, with his supercontinents of Eurasia, Oceania and Eastasia battling it out for supremacy...

Last edited by aatbloke; June 17th, 2005 at 05:44 AM.
aatbloke no está en línea  
Old June 25th, 2005, 06:23 PM   #192
Mike19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 141
Likes (Received): 26

The reason Europe has more advanced highways is because the American interstates were built in the 1950´s. In contrast Europe´s wer built much later. Spain which has one of the most advacned highway systems in europe began building their highwyas system in the 1990´s and they just recently finished. Of course Spain´s highways of the 1990´s are going to be far more advanced than US highways of the 1950´s. And they look better and in better condition because of the numbers drivers so USA 300 million ppl. Spain 40 million. Obviosuly not all those ppl ahve cars or drive on the highway but there are many many many more ppl driving on highways here than in europe and that all those tires wear on the concrete.

And lets put the final nail in the coffin about who are the better drivers. If the highway systems are sooooo bad bad here and sooooo much better in europe, then why are three european countries ahead of us in fatalities. And we are followed closely by others. Its because europeans,with their advanced and safe systems are worse drivers than americans. I spend every summer in europe and i live in Miami, and trust me ppl drive like shit down here. but i would say that witht eh exception of the UK, most drivers in europe are much more aggresive than here.

But i dont want to sound like a european hater, both countries have their pros and cons. European mass transit is 50000000000000000 times better than ours. and were are jsut now starting to realize that more lanes and more highways onyl means more cars and more congestion. In the states, we are now starting to invest more on public transportation. Following Europes lead, jsut like europe followed our lead on highways.

Last edited by Mike19; June 25th, 2005 at 06:39 PM.
Mike19 no está en línea  
Old June 25th, 2005, 09:46 PM   #193
EarlyBird
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Likes (Received):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike19
The reason Europe has more advanced highways is because the American interstates were built in the 1950´s. In contrast Europe´s wer built much later.
Erm... the UK's motorway system was started at the same time as the US interstates.
 
Old June 25th, 2005, 09:52 PM   #194
Nodder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 34
Likes (Received): 1

If I recall it right, the first highway was the AVUS in Berlin-Germany, which was opened back in 1921. Later in 1933, Hitler started building a big german autobahn network.
Nodder no está en línea  
Old June 25th, 2005, 09:54 PM   #195
Giorgio
Registered User
 
Giorgio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,662
Likes (Received): 485

I thought this thread was dead ages ago...
Giorgio no está en línea  
Old June 25th, 2005, 09:57 PM   #196
Mike19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 141
Likes (Received): 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyBird
Erm... the UK's motorway system was started at the same time as the US interstates.
i think i mentioned uk´s exception, but maybe i didnt clear it up. Germany too built them earlier, but as for mot of europe, they built much later
Mike19 no está en línea  
Old August 5th, 2005, 11:51 PM   #197
Caliguy2005
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Likes (Received): 2

Freeway Quality and Design depends on what state your in here in The U.S....here in the Western U.S,California probably has the least maintained and ugliest freeways i've ever seen...California has freeways that look worn out,trashy and very 1950's compared to the neighboring states which look better maintained,cleaner,attractive and more modern...

California is the Richest State in America,but you wouldn't know it from driving on our freeways....

I'm sure that some European Highways are better than American Highways or Vice Versa.
Caliguy2005 no está en línea  
Old August 6th, 2005, 12:12 AM   #198
MainDiish
Noodles Yum!
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tokyo東京
Posts: 79
Likes (Received): 0

Do you all really think that European Highways are better? Looks can really be decieving...
__________________
I TOKYO
MainDiish no está en línea  
Old August 6th, 2005, 03:51 PM   #199
chiccoplease
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 162
Likes (Received): 8

I think American highways are crap because when it comes to construction in that country, everything is done half-heartedly. A new road is finished -- 1 year later it looks like it's been out there for decades. In this aspect I don't see much difference between the US and Russia.
chiccoplease no está en línea  
Old August 6th, 2005, 04:36 PM   #200
nick_taylor
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth (term time); Bishop's Stortford (out of term time)
Posts: 1,818
Likes (Received): 9

300kph Eurostar test train (running at over 350kph) next to the M2



Spaghetti Junction - probably the most complex junction in Europe, definately the UK. Combines 2 motorways, an A-Road, a roundabout, various local roads, a railway line and two canals.




Then again do I really care about road transport? Its inefficient and not the way forward except in loosely populated areas. I prefer public transport and practically every country in Europe trashes the US in that category. The 401 by the way is one of the worst scars on the face of the planet, I'd rather have cancer than have that in my city.
nick_taylor no está en línea  


Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium