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Old August 17th, 2005, 05:42 AM   #321
streetscapeer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen
^The interchange pictured above isn't located in a suburb of Milwaukee. It's in the city of Milwaukee, about 2 miles west of downtown.

I realize that, but it's there to feed all the suburbanites into downtown! That's what I meant.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 06:16 AM   #322
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large highways are the cause of suburban growth, not the result of it...

the british roads look good....but i think the negative is flipped or something on that image......................
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Old August 17th, 2005, 06:25 AM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Architorture
large highways are the cause of suburban growth, not the result of it...
smaller highways where the cause of suburban growth and larger highways are the result of massive suburban growth
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Old August 17th, 2005, 06:31 AM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen
Actually, the section of I-70 that goes through Glenwood Canyon is regarded as one of the most well-engineered highways in the country. It's also one of the most beautiful rides I've experienced anywhere.












It is fun driving through that section of I-70, especially at high speeds (I've done over 100 mph through there). In a way, it reminds me of Italian or Japanese highways through mountainous terrain.

But I agree that, in general, Colorado roads suck (I also lived there awhile). Some examples:
- lack of edge markings to show steep drop offs (e.g., US36 to Boulder) -- many cars end up in the ditch at night or when it snows
- lack of protective railings in mountainous areas througout the state (e.g., Colorado 72 north of Nederland, Colorado 550)
- abrupt narrowing of roads between counties (e.g., on US36 as you drive past Sheridan and into Jefferson county)
- I-25 south of Denver even before the T-rex construction -- unnecessarily narrow and winding through the South Platte River (it is not mountainous there)
- the deadly I-70 curves between Eisenhower tunnel and down on the plain in Golden and the steep grades -- while I acknowledge the terrain difficulties, it is still mightly dangerous to come down an 8% grade for 2 miles to encounter a 90% turns going westbound
- unnecessarily confusing interchanges / road layouts -- e.g. US6 and I-70 in Golden
- the general impression that there are no standards (or none enforced) in lane width, markings and signage -- hardly a standardized experience so it gets bewildering

Add the tough terrain, the constant snowfalls and ice, the abrupt changes in altitude, and the size of the state (it is 2/3 the size of California), the muddy backroads and the wild muddy roads and near off-roads (around Ouray or Poudre Park or behind the Rabbit Ears mountains) -- I found it a pretty wild experience overall.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 07:19 AM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Architorture
large highways are the cause of suburban growth, not the result of it...

the british roads look good....but i think the negative is flipped or something on that image......................
I doubt that massive interchange was there before the suburbs
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Old August 17th, 2005, 07:23 AM   #326
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British motorways are well surfaced, but they lack exits. In an urban area, you often have to drive 2-3 miles between exits, when there should be exits every mile or so. Also, they lack lanes....so many motorways are in dire need of widening. I've actually driven on that stretch of M60 around Manchester and I have to say that Manchester is one of the few UK cities with an excellent urban motorway network. The rest seem to be lagging behind their European counterparts.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 08:41 AM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen
Actually, the section of I-70 that goes through Glenwood Canyon is regarded as one of the most well-engineered highways in the country. It's also one of the most beautiful rides I've experienced anywhere.
Hey... thanks for showing those... I was that stretch of I-70 was one of the more impressive highways in America. I didn't mean to be derogatory, I was mainly refering to the highways around Denver, etc. Compared to what I'm used to in California the roads are really abyssmal. Narrow lanes, winding, max speed of 55 mph... killing me. There are some exceptions however.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 09:06 AM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aatbloke
Sbarn needs to post pictures of motorways in Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New York, Virginia and Maryland instead of California. Many of them are absolutely abysmal (I-90 in New York and I-76 in Ohio notably) but this has a lot to do with the temperature extremes the region faces during the year.
Um... ooookay. I'll show some, fine. I never said that there was a uniform quality of roads throughout the U.S. Go read through my posts, I you will be unable to quote such a statement. In fact you are helping me prove my point that road qualities across the U.S. vary dramatically.

Ohio: I-90





I-80




I could go on if you want...

Maryland: I-495









I-95:






Virginia: I-95







I-495




Pennsylvania: I-95





Okay... I've had enough... there are literally thousands of these pix if you want to see them. So if you want to keep equating U.S. roads to those found in developing photos, I'll keep posting.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 09:10 AM   #329
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edit.

Last edited by i_am_hydrogen; August 17th, 2005 at 09:18 AM.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 09:15 AM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn
Hey... thanks for showing those... I was that stretch of I-70 was one of the more impressive highways in America. I didn't mean to be derogatory, I was mainly refering to the highways around Denver, etc. Compared to what I'm used to in California the roads are really abyssmal. Narrow lanes, winding, max speed of 55 mph... killing me. There are some exceptions however.
Glad you enjoyed. I didn't take your statements in a derogatory sense. I'm sure some of the highways in Colorado are in poor shape. Luckily, what they lack in physical quality they make up for with the beauty that surrounds them.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 08:54 PM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn
Um... ooookay. I'll show some, fine. I never said that there was a uniform quality of roads throughout the U.S. Go read through my posts, I you will be unable to quote such a statement. In fact you are helping me prove my point that road qualities across the U.S. vary dramatically.

Okay... I've had enough... there are literally thousands of these pix if you want to see them. So if you want to keep equating U.S. roads to those found in developing photos, I'll keep posting.
You can post photos. Some great pictures there of stretches that have decent paving. I've driven thousands of miles in many countries, and I'm going on my experiences. Whatsmore, those I talk to who have similar experiences say the same thing. I'd suggest you post pictures (as one example) of I-76 between Akron and Youngstown, Ohio - it's generally awful. They've just replaced one section near Ravenna and another 5-mile section west of Youngstown is being replaced with concrete. Some of the surfaces and potholes are absolutely terrible. Indeed, in the fifteen years I spent driving in the UK, I had all-round wheel balancing/alignment performed due to poor road surfaces just twice. In the US, I've had the same work done (out of necessity) ten times in five years. When my wife's family (who are American) first visited the UK - and then France - they all commented on how pristine many of the motorways were. Indeed, a French toll autoroute makes the Pennsylvania turnpike (for example) look shabby and outdated.

This isn't a dig at the US - there are perfectly understandable reasons why the vast majority of Western European motorways are of superior quality to those in much of the US (far more funding through taxation, less severe weather extremes, etc), but facts are facts no matter how many pictures you find on the internet.

There are many, many great things about the United States - but the quality of its roads isn't one of them. Even it's automotive journalists say the same thing.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 09:54 PM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aatbloke
You can post photos. Some great pictures there of stretches that have decent paving. I've driven thousands of miles in many countries, and I'm going on my experiences. Whatsmore, those I talk to who have similar experiences say the same thing. I'd suggest you post pictures (as one example) of I-76 between Akron and Youngstown, Ohio - it's generally awful. They've just replaced one section near Ravenna and another 5-mile section west of Youngstown is being replaced with concrete. Some of the surfaces and potholes are absolutely terrible. Indeed, in the fifteen years I spent driving in the UK, I had all-round wheel balancing/alignment performed due to poor road surfaces just twice. In the US, I've had the same work done (out of necessity) ten times in five years. When my wife's family (who are American) first visited the UK - and then France - they all commented on how pristine many of the motorways were. Indeed, a French toll autoroute makes the Pennsylvania turnpike (for example) look shabby and outdated.

This isn't a dig at the US - there are perfectly understandable reasons why the vast majority of Western European motorways are of superior quality to those in much of the US (far more funding through taxation, less severe weather extremes, etc), but facts are facts no matter how many pictures you find on the internet.

There are many, many great things about the United States - but the quality of its roads isn't one of them. Even it's automotive journalists say the same thing.

the thing is, no one said that it was the other way around, I think most of us agreed that Western European nations, in general, were superior to those of the Untied States in road quility. But of course, some bashers had to come on here to wail on the US (not you). I agree that many European roads were pristine when I drove over there, and that alot of US highways need upgrading (from my experience) but I've never driven in Ohio, so I don't know what it's like. I think the US must vary alot more in its quatlity of roadway, cuz I've lived in Virginia and upstate New York for 2 years each, and drove on highways that were as smooth as any, and only once in those 4 years did I have to get alignment on my Nissan Maxima..... we all can only speak from experience, I guess.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 03:21 AM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyBird
Personally, I think this shows the difference in quality...

Manchester ring road:
That is one fine piece of asphalt. If that is well representative of the UK's highways, that would be awesome.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 03:53 AM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aatbloke
You can post photos. Some great pictures there of stretches that have decent paving. I've driven thousands of miles in many countries, and I'm going on my experiences. Whatsmore, those I talk to who have similar experiences say the same thing. I'd suggest you post pictures (as one example) of I-76 between Akron and Youngstown, Ohio - it's generally awful. They've just replaced one section near Ravenna and another 5-mile section west of Youngstown is being replaced with concrete. Some of the surfaces and potholes are absolutely terrible. Indeed, in the fifteen years I spent driving in the UK, I had all-round wheel balancing/alignment performed due to poor road surfaces just twice. In the US, I've had the same work done (out of necessity) ten times in five years. When my wife's family (who are American) first visited the UK - and then France - they all commented on how pristine many of the motorways were. Indeed, a French toll autoroute makes the Pennsylvania turnpike (for example) look shabby and outdated.

This isn't a dig at the US - there are perfectly understandable reasons why the vast majority of Western European motorways are of superior quality to those in much of the US (far more funding through taxation, less severe weather extremes, etc), but facts are facts no matter how many pictures you find on the internet.

There are many, many great things about the United States - but the quality of its roads isn't one of them. Even it's automotive journalists say the same thing.
Yeah, I have no doubt that there are some terrible stretches of road in the U.S. ... apparently there are plenty in Ohio. However, be careful to generalize the United States based upon your experiences living in the upper Midwest. There is a whole wide country beyond that particular region. I'd say that the most superior highways/freeways in the U.S. are found in the sunbelt states... with some exceptions of course!
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Old August 18th, 2005, 04:16 AM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn
Yeah, I have no doubt that there are some terrible stretches of road in the U.S. ... apparently there are plenty in Ohio. However, be careful to generalize the United States based upon your experiences living in the upper Midwest. There is a whole wide country beyond that particular region. I'd say that the most superior highways/freeways in the U.S. are found in the sunbelt states... with some exceptions of course!
I've visited some 33 of the lower 48 states and found most to be rather similar, although as I've said before it can vary even within a few miles. The reasons are there and perfectly understandable. Florida had some of the most consistent good tarmac, but sadly the worst drivers.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 04:19 AM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritown
That is one fine piece of asphalt. If that is well representative of the UK's highways, that would be awesome.
And it really is representative. The UK does have numerous faults but it's standard of road maintenance really is second to none.

Again, much of this boils down to funding: highway maintenance is usually the responsibility of each county or metropolitan borough. Generally, if they don't spend their alloted quota from central government each fiscal year, they won't get the same budget the following year, so each spring you'll often see construction teams resurfacing perfectly good stretches of road simply to spend the money.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 04:24 AM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetscapeer
the thing is, no one said that it was the other way around, I think most of us agreed that Western European nations, in general, were superior to those of the Untied States in road quility. But of course, some bashers had to come on here to wail on the US (not you). I agree that many European roads were pristine when I drove over there, and that alot of US highways need upgrading (from my experience) but I've never driven in Ohio, so I don't know what it's like. I think the US must vary alot more in its quatlity of roadway, cuz I've lived in Virginia and upstate New York for 2 years each, and drove on highways that were as smooth as any, and only once in those 4 years did I have to get alignment on my Nissan Maxima..... we all can only speak from experience, I guess.
Oh I quite agree with you. EarlyBird is a notorious troller in my opinion, and I'm the same nationality as he is. You get them everywhere. If I wailed on the US, I'd first and foremost have my wife to answer to...

Like I said, it boils down to funding. In the States, state and federal governments subsidise motoring costs by not taxing it very highly, whereas in the UK, for example, it is health care which is subsidised. One way or another, they all have to make the books balance.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 04:44 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txRNGr
its called offensive driving...its fun, you should try it
Here in Midwest, drivers are crazy. Though the terrain is smooth, in some states such as Iowa or Minnesota, many roads are badly maintained. Sometimes congested and too narrow for its traffic.

Areas around Chicago-Milwaukee sucks, traffic congested.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 04:44 AM   #339
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Much of road funding in Texas is done county by county. I have family in Lubbock and when I drive there from Dallas(5 hours~) I take SH114, you can honestly see a sign that says Entering Jacksboro county and the road quality instantly changes, good or bad. some parts are 4-lane divided highway with shoulders, some parts are 2-lane highways with no shoulder, it all depends on the county.

Interstates are much more uniform

I can't remember some of the worst counties so I just plugged one in.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 05:18 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritown
That is one fine piece of asphalt.
insert joke here (too many to choose from... couldn't decide)
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