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View Poll Results: So?
EU 388 79.51%
USA 100 20.49%
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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:15 AM   #421
TeKnO_Lx
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thatīs normal.. happens everywhere.. of course not everybody takes NY subway..thats just a force of expression.. to say that the city is "liberal, multiculturalism" blah blah blah..why u see so many cabs in NY? thatīs not normal IMO
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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:18 AM   #422
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European Union!!

Mainly for railways (including all high speed trains) and airports!
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Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:18 AM   #423
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by roads or higways:USA
by public transit or trains:Europe
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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:21 AM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiccoplease
PS Getting back to the topic of "everyone taking the NYC subway". When I first came to NY I thought that like 90% of its citizens are black. No, I really did. I only saw other races at work and in my neighborhood. Frankly, my impression was based on what I saw on the subway (and "everyone took the subway"). Then I changed the line and saw Mexicans, then I walked around, then I started work. My verdict after one year was that 80% of people taking the subway were poor minorities.
Your verdict was wrong then.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:24 AM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiccoplease
Short time? No, I'm not one of the Germans who went to Fiji on vacation for 10 days and want to emigrate there forever.

From what I have witnessed myself, everyone who can avoid the subway does it by taking the taxi. People with a higher income order a car with a driver. That's the way it goes.

And please don't sing the song about Spain and Portugal (!) being as developed as Western Europe. Spain might have a few fancy high-speed lines and trains, but getting from A to B is still a nightmare. The transportation network is slow, inefficient and old. Now, what has been created in Madrid and some other large cities is wonderful and I'm sure that the entire transportation network of the country will be amazing in a decade considering the speed it's developing at. But if you ask me what I consider developed when it comes to transport, my answer is Germany, Austria, Switzerland and no other European country even comes close.


Germany, Austria, and Switzerland are the only countries now with developed infrastructure?

I can see the American reputation of hubris perhaps should be applied to other countries.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:26 AM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeKnO_Lx
thatīs normal.. happens everywhere.. of course not everybody takes NY subway..thats just a force of expression.. to say that the city is "liberal, multiculturalism" blah blah blah..why u see so many cabs in NY? thatīs not normal IMO
I think you are confusing NYC with Rio.

Of course Donal Trump does not take the subway. But, even if there were 100.000 cabs in Manhattan, given that there are 7 million rides taken on the subway every day, the number of people taking cabs is chump change in comparison.

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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:30 AM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premutos
don qui is a american-nuyorican who considers himself spaniard

there is something u dont see everyday

hahaha just kidding donqui.
Hilarious, where do you get your material!



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Old April 13th, 2006, 08:37 AM   #428
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The great majority of US roads are absolutely falling apart. Even the total amount of roads by size (as in, density of the network) can't compete with the EU.

EU wins the road question.

Railways in the modern sense are completely nonexistant in 90% of the US.

EU wins the rail questions.

The US has more massive airports, but EU ones are organized infinitely better.

If you simply look at the infrastructure aspect, the US wins the airport question.

The EU is lightyears ahead in the mass transit aspect. I can't state it any simpler.

EU wins the public transport question.

OVERALL

EU-US:

3 to 1

Last edited by OettingerCroat; April 13th, 2006 at 08:50 AM.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 09:44 AM   #429
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Wealthy suburbanites take the commuter rail in the US.

Subways and urban transit are a mixed bag in the US- buses are predominantly used by lower income people who can't afford a car. Rail is used by everyone. Obviously you won't see Manhattan businessmen in the Harlem or Bronx parts of the subway, but they're all over midtown-lower Manhattan.

This poll is irrelevant anyway, since Japan clearly has the best infrastructure. :P
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Old April 13th, 2006, 10:35 AM   #430
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Remember the numbers for EU
3,976,372 kmē area
459,500,000 people

and USA
9,631,418 kmē area
298,290,000 people

you can not compare, USA is better.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 10:47 AM   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiccoplease
And please don't sing the song about Spain and Portugal (!) being as developed as Western Europe. Spain might have a few fancy high-speed lines and trains, but getting from A to B is still a nightmare. The transportation network is slow, inefficient and old. Now, what has been created in Madrid and some other large cities is wonderful and I'm sure that the entire transportation network of the country will be amazing in a decade considering the speed it's developing at. But if you ask me what I consider developed when it comes to transport, my answer is Germany, Austria, Switzerland and no other European country even comes close.


German public transport is excellent but not a big difference with Netherlands, France, Belgium and yes Spain and Portugal. They come very close. Germany, Switzerlandor Austria can't beat France TGV network for example.
Do something about your 'we are the center of the world' thinking.
And with your false statements about Portugal and Spain you are stuck far in the eigthees.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 11:32 AM   #432
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Definitely the EU. The EU has both great rail and great roads. No part of the US seems to have both, and in many areas neither.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 12:55 PM   #433
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I don't really have enough experience of the US to know for certain, and as others have stated it's hardly like for like in terms of size and population density.

However, my distinct impression is that the EU has the edge, just in terms of number of options available and how widely available they are, certainly in terms of rail coverage anyway
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Old April 13th, 2006, 02:45 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui


Germany, Austria, and Switzerland are the only countries now with developed infrastructure?

I can see the American reputation of hubris perhaps should be applied to other countries.
You should work for a tabloid. Maybe your major talent is to twist other people's words around, don't you think? First you accuse me me of comparing the US to Poland, now of saying that only those three countries have developed infrastructure. Give me a break.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 02:52 PM   #435
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EU!
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Old April 13th, 2006, 03:02 PM   #436
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I'm planning a trip from Netherlands to Morocco, by rail. Rotterdam-Paris 3 hours(500km), Paris-Bordeaux(2hours 500km)-Irun(+2 hours 200km). 7 hours to reach the Spanish boarder. Nighttrain to Madrid, 500km almost nine hours! And than, AVE to Cordoba, 1,5 hours. 250km. 250km to Algeciras left more than 6 hours trip by RAIL!!!
Spanish Railways are underdevelopped if you compare it with France, Germany etc etc. I think for Portugal too. Eventough Spain is catching up. Spain is developping really fast, 35 years ago they were as poor as Morocco was. But now they are a very good developped country. 4th biggest aiport of Europe by passenger numbers!
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Old April 13th, 2006, 03:13 PM   #437
chiccoplease
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snot

German public transport is excellent but not a big difference with Netherlands, France, Belgium and yes Spain and Portugal. They come very close. Germany, Switzerlandor Austria can't beat France TGV network for example.
Do something about your 'we are the center of the world' thinking.
And with your false statements about Portugal and Spain you are stuck far in the eigthees.
For someone who is really mature you really should desist from getting personal. Have you ever read my posts glorifying everything that's German?

However, when it comes to the topic of infrastructure I indeed think that Germany does it best in Europe. Seeing new fancy projects in soutern France and Spain actually raised doubts about my theory. But after travelling a little more I'm still sure that no one has quite reached the German (Austrian and Swiss) standards in that department.

Small countries with indeed awesome networks like the Netherlands and Belgium should rather be compared to Switzerland and Austria instead of to the large Germany. The service in the alpine countries is far more frequent, vehicles are more modern, it's also very safe which can't be said about the Benelux countries. Also, Austria and Switzerland certainly have more difficuilties maintaining their networks due to the geographical conditions. We should also take into account that Belgium and Austria are some of the most densely populated countries in the world.

It's true - no European country can beat the French TGV network. Especially the Paris-Marseille line is just breathtaking. However, you profit from the TGV if you only take the routes it serves. Taking a regional feeder train to, say, Bordeaux and then the TGV to Paris is quite slow. The overall rail service is very infrequent in France. Germany might only have a few real high-speed tracks, but the service density is amazing. You can get up at night in Soutern Germany and be like, I wanna go to the Frankfurt/Cologne airport right now. And the ICE will take you there. In fact, you'll probably have this opportunity several times each hour. The transfer system is a logistical masterpiece and I haven't seen anything similar in France.

It's also true that France has a good public transportation system, but it's tarnished by countless strikes. In cities like Toulouse, there are several strikes a day. The SNCF isn't strike-free, either.

Then there is the road network, best I've ever seen. But usually it's cheaper to take the plane.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 03:36 PM   #438
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It's such a pity that a couple of people have ruined this thread by rude comments, and chiccoplease, to be honest some of the things you write are simply rubbish.

Anyway, for those who feel the US has terrible urban public transport, they are completely wrong. Yes, on average public transport is more developed in a typical EU city, but that is not to say that many American cities don't have excellent public transport.

The following cities have a metro system in the US.

Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Granted, this is far short of the EU, but it is still something, and considering one of them, New York, is one of the largest in the world, and another Chicago is one of the most celebrated, it does put it at least to a level that shouldn't be described as "appalling" as was suggested in a previous post.

Many of these cities have good commuter and suburban rail, again, not as developed as an average EU city, but it doesn't warrant scoffing.

As far as long distance rail transport, such services do exist, and some, like the New York to Philadelphia are quite adequate. However, it is certainly not as advanced as the EU network. This is true, but it also has to be remembered that distances between major cities in the US are generally longer, and these long distances don't work in the favour for rail transport.

Still on rail, I find it rediculous for the comments made on the Spanish or Portuguese systems. In my experience, Spain and Portugal have an excellent rail network, both for Urban Areas and for Intercity Travel. Barcelona and Madrid's Metro is equal to any Metro in Germany with only Berlin having an edge on Barcelona (but not Madrid). In fact, many rail sites would point out that only four cities in Germany have a proper metro system, the rest being a combination of metro/light rail - this compares to Spain which also has four full metro systems.

Commuter rail services are also excellent, and although not as comprehensive as a typical S-bahn system, they are still very good. Lisbon also has a brilliant commuter/suburban rail network, and both countries are expanding their networks at a very fast rate.

Air travel comparisons between the EU and the US is far more difficult. To be honest, I would consider this a tie. The massive proliferation of low cost airlines in Europe over the last few years has really changed the scene in Europe's skies. Prior to this, I would have given the edge to the US, however now it seems to be tied to me.

Expressways is also another difficult one. The general consensus is that the US has the largest Interstate system in the world, which is entirely true. But this is of cause reflected by the enormous size of the country. The EU is much smaller than the US, 3,976,372kmē to 9,161,923kmē. Yet the EU has 56,704km of expressway to the US's 74,950km, making the EU one far more dense. Add to that, the excellent Autobahns of Germany with large sections with no speed limits, the edge to me seems to go the the EU. However, the US has the most comprehensive "free" expressway system as many of the European ones have tolls.

Can we please try and keep this discussion pleasant? Both regions have excellent infrastructure, obviously people are going to have differing opinions in which they feel is better.

However, if you start to make stupid comments putting one down drastically, not only will it probably result in this thread being closed, but it will also make you look like a total dickhead.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:03 PM   #439
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Just me, would you kindly point out the rubbish parts of my posts? And even if you disagree with me, please don't forget your own legendary Frankfurt bashing post ("You can't even pay with your EC card at Lidl!")
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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:10 PM   #440
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It is pretty obvious that Europe as a whole has better rail and public transportation than North America (although there are certain cities that are just as good), but that's because Europe really needs it, while the US doesn't with the invention of the airplane and its unique lifestyle. At one time, the US had by far the best rail system in the world-because they needed it. Since those days are gone, rail travel is no longer a big thing, but it remains so in Europe. Having said that, America's airtravel and highway system is unmatched by any group of nations, let alone a single one. Just look at how many US airports make the top 20 in world's busiest. It's atonishing. Almost every small town in the U.S. now has an airport with feeder traffic to a larger aiport, with many frequencies. The U.S. air domestic market is larger than the rest of the international market combined (or almost). That should tell you something about its efficient use.

In the future, as the nation gets more dense, we will have to invest more in rail, but as we speak, the plane does most of the work.

BTW, the comment about how Low-Cost carriers have been better established in Europe is wrong. LCC were pioneered in the U.S. and its only now that Europe has copied. Also, the notion that U.S. highways are "falling apart" is rediculous, and proof that people will take this opportunity to bash America no matter what.
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