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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:18 PM   #441
Justme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiccoplease
It's true - no European country can beat the French TGV network. Especially the Paris-Marseille line is just breathtaking. However, you profit from the TGV if you only take the routes it serves. Taking a regional feeder train to, say, Bordeaux and then the TGV to Paris is quite slow. The overall rail service is very infrequent in France. Germany might only have a few real high-speed tracks, but the service density is amazing. You can get up at night in Soutern Germany and be like, I wanna go to the Frankfurt/Cologne airport right now. And the ICE will take you there. In fact, you'll probably have this opportunity several times each hour. The transfer system is a logistical masterpiece and I haven't seen anything similar in France.
Actually, the Bordeaux - Paris example probably isn't very good. I just checked the services from www.db.de (which covers all of Europe with timetables) and they offer the following services between 7:30am and 12pm:

Bordeaux - Paris (500km as crow flies) 3hours, 1minute (4 trains during that period)

Munich - Hannover (500km as crow flies) 4hours, 37minutes (7 trains during that period - however, some of them take as long as 5hours and 11minutes)

or, to use two different cities
Stuttgart - Berlin (503km as crow flies) 5 hours, 36minutes (7 trains during that period - however, some take as long as 6hours and 12 minutes)

What about between two cities in France not including Paris?

Marseille - Tours (588km as crow flies) 5 hours, 9minutes fastest (6 trains during that time period - although slowest is 6hours, 59minutes) In my opinion, this is comparable to the Stuttgart to Berlin route, despite that being two larger cities.

Yes, I would agree that if you take two lesser cities in each country, Germany would come out a bit better, but it wouldn't be that great a difference.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:23 PM   #442
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IMO
Highways: EU highways are much better and pleasant for a drive
RAIL: the american trains come no way near the ones in EU
HIGHRISE: the only place where i give US the adv.
BRIDGES,TRANSPORT,ETC: EU is better.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:25 PM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
It is pretty obvious that Europe as a whole has better rail and public transportation than North America (although there are certain cities that are just as good), but that's because Europe really needs it, while the US doesn't with the invention of the airplane and its unique lifestyle. At one time, the US had by far the best rail system in the world-because they needed it. Since those days are gone, rail travel is no longer a big thing, but it remains so in Europe. Having said that, America's airtravel and highway system is unmatched by any group of nations, let alone a single one
I don't see how the invention of the airplane being from the Wright Brothers has anything to do with this. Other countrys had people developing the aircraft at the same time, and many claim to have done so before the Wright Bros.

As for the highway system in the US being unmatched by any group of nations, how do you respond to the fact that the EU's expressway system is far more dense than the U.S. i.e. more expressway per km?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
In the future, as the nation gets more dense, we will have to invest more in rail, but as we speak, the plane does most of the work.
Why don't you also point out then that because air travel isn't as needed in Europe as it is in the US then that is the reason it isn't as big. It seemed alright for you to use this explanation for the US???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
BTW, the comment about how Low-Cost carriers have been better established in Europe is wrong. LCC were pioneered in the U.S. and its only now that Europe has copied. Also, the notion that U.S. highways are "falling apart" is rediculous, and proof that people will take this opportunity to bash America no matter what.
That is true, that low cost airlines was pioneered in the US, but there are now more such airlines in Europe than the US including some of the worlds fastest growing and still showing no sign of slowing down.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:28 PM   #444
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were is the option both?
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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:53 PM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiccoplease
Just me, would you kindly point out the rubbish parts of my posts? And even if you disagree with me, please don't forget your own legendary Frankfurt bashing post ("You can't even pay with your EC card at Lidl!")
Point one: Sure:
1) "Unfortunately, the US infrastructure doesn't even come close to that of the lesser developed European countries": Despite your attempt to cover up on this by trying to claim Spain is what you meant by lesser developed European countries, it's pretty clear that there are a lot less developed countries out there such as Albania, Romania, Ukraine, Bulgaria etc, which are on a level so far below Spain, it seems hard to me to believe that you were actually referring to the Iberian Peninsula. Even if you were, the U.S. does come close to the public infrastructure of Spain and Portugal - to claim otherwise is pure rubbish

2) The suburban train system in the Northeast can't be compared to any S-Bahn type system that is common in Germany: Really, any... are you sure...? Have you seen a map of Boston or Chicago's commuter rail system? Are there really no S-bahn systems in Germany that are comparable or smaller? Have a look. I can tell you now, that your claim was actually rubbish.

3) The situation in East Canada is way harsher, though. There is like one train a day from Ottawa to Montreal.: Again, rubbish. Maybe you should check a time table out before you say things like this: Took me 3minutes to find this one: http://www.viarail.ca/pdf/2006/National_5455_102005.pdf

4) I think the stories of wealthy businessmen taking the commuter train from NY suburbs into Manhattan are ideological tails Nothing actually wrong with this, with the exception that it is no different than here in Germany. How many "wealthy" businessmen do you know who use public transport in Frankfurt? Well, in my company, I am only one of two people that use the public transport, everyone else drives in. So, it's rubbish to claim that things are so different in US cities with public transport networks.

That's four points which were completely wrong.

Now for your 2nd comment: Please post a quote where I actually said you can't pay by EC card at Lidl. I never wrote such a thing. I have written that few supermarkets in Frankfurt accept Credit Card and this is true - (unless it has recently changed as I haven't bothered trying for ages)

I don't bash Frankfurt, I criticize certain aspects. I do recall you not taking that very well. You also seem to always ignore when I bring up good things about Germany or Frankfurt, quite convenient when it suits your purposes. As an example, here I was explaining good points about the German road networks.

However, please don't twist things around in your head to make up new stuff.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:07 PM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
I don't see how the invention of the airplane being from the Wright Brothers has anything to do with this. Other countrys had people developing the aircraft at the same time, and many claim to have done so before the Wright Bros. As for the highway system in the US being unmatched by any group of nations, how do you respond to the fact that the EU's expressway system is far more dense than the U.S. i.e. more expressway per km?
When did I mention the "invention of the airplane" as criteria? I think you mis-read I respond to the higher density of highways by saying that the US is simply to huge and has large pieces of land that are uninhabited. Surely that also affects the results.


Quote:
Why don't you also point out then that because air travel isn't as needed in Europe as it is in the US then that is the reason it isn't as big. It seemed alright for you to use this explanation for the US???
Good point. I thought it was implied when I said "rail travel is still needed in Europe"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
That is true, that low cost airlines was pioneered in the US, but there are now more such airlines in Europe than the US including some of the worlds fastest growing and still showing no sign of slowing down.
There are "more" but most of them are very small. In the US, you have 5 and basically only 5. Spain for instance has like 6, and that's just one country! Doesn't make it any better.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:07 PM   #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbboy
IMO
Highways: EU highways are much better and pleasant for a drive
RAIL: the american trains come no way near the ones in EU
HIGHRISE: the only place where i give US the adv.
BRIDGES,TRANSPORT,ETC: EU is better.

There is no way the EU beats the US in highway infrastructure. Many US cities were built around the highway, US highways have by far more capacity than EU ones. You could argue connectivity on a country to country basis but overall this one goes to the US again.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:27 PM   #448
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I prefere driving in the states ( although the speed limit is a bit low ) but when it comes to trains and buses the US don't stand a chance... so the EU wins IMO ( the old members atleast )
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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:29 PM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
There is no way the EU beats the US in highway infrastructure. Many US cities were built around the highway, US highways have by far more capacity than EU ones. You could argue connectivity on a country to country basis but overall this one goes to the US again.
Highways in Germany and many other countries in the EU are of a better build quality than the US. The only thing that highways in the US get is that they can handle more cars because they are wider in places.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:35 PM   #450
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Germany is only one country. Whether they are built of a better quality is another thing. I don't think anyone knows whether it is true or not, just something that is nice to say.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:36 PM   #451
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This is such a lame comparison! well duh... the EU of course!

There are more Big Cities in Europe than in America /100'000 Km square
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Old April 13th, 2006, 06:19 PM   #452
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That is infrastructure
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Old April 13th, 2006, 06:28 PM   #453
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Old April 13th, 2006, 07:07 PM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
Germany is only one country. Whether they are built of a better quality is another thing. I don't think anyone knows whether it is true or not, just something that is nice to say.
France ,Spain ,Italy ,Belgium ,Nederland ,Austria highways... are build of a better quality thant US

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Old April 13th, 2006, 07:09 PM   #455
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Our highway infrastructure is impressive but our rail system is a ******* joke.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 07:43 PM   #456
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It depends how you want to look at it. When I was in London, I noticed that there was hardly any parking in Central London. Few if any underground parking garages, that are so common in American cities. In any American city you can take your car downtown and park it, even though it may cost you a bit of money. But in Central London my cousin told that even the wealthiest industrialists often have to take the train in and then ride the Tube because there is literally no parking for many offices.

America is a low density country compared to most places in Europe. It's a country where people get by in cars, and the infrastructure to support cars here is the best in the world. It's a country where people cross the continent in airplanes, and the airports here are some of the best in the world. Sure the market for cross country trains isn't that well developed, but then again with airfares being so cheap who wants to spend 4 days (or whatever) riding a train from New York to San Fransisco?
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Old April 13th, 2006, 07:48 PM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku
France ,Spain ,Italy ,Belgium ,Nederland ,Austria highways... are build of a better quality thant US

Whatever. Have you got 20 lane expressways and 5 level stack interchanges in Europe? In Europe, cars are a privelage for wealthier people. In America, everyone has a car. Plus the continental climate of America is extreme and causes the roads to crack because of the wild swings in temperature, requiring frequent resurfacing. Most of the countries you named have temps in a much more narrow band. Plus there is so much more heavy traffic here in America using the roads than in Europe. But overall the European roads are not even in the same league as the American expressway system, even if overall they tend to be a bit smoother paved.

You think some pussy 6 lane road shows infrastructure? This is an example of American infrastructure:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...03196,0.006738

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...06392,0.013475





As a gesture of friendship I will now ceremoniously hand a roll of toilet paper to our Euro friends who have soiled themselves.

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Old April 13th, 2006, 07:50 PM   #458
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In terms of solving traffic problems, adding multiple lanes or creating massive interexchanges does little to solve traffic problems.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 07:58 PM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk
In terms of solving traffic problems, adding multiple lanes or creating massive interexchanges does little to solve traffic problems.
You can traverse most of the American cities faster than you can places like London by car, because the highway infrastructure is better built to carry traffic, through densely populated areas no less. But believe what you want to believe.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 08:06 PM   #460
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American cities are designed to accomodate the car. European cities are designed to ensure sustainability. Although the two different concepts are interacting with each other a lot more now.
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