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View Poll Results: So?
EU 388 79.51%
USA 100 20.49%
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Old April 14th, 2006, 09:55 PM   #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OettingerCroat
thats nice, but i still can guess who you've voted for.
I'm not old enough to vote
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Old April 14th, 2006, 10:31 PM   #582
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Originally Posted by jmancuso
read my comments about how our $$ goes towards missiles and tanks instead of the potholes that are tearing up the shocks on my truck on the corner of san felipe and post oak. i wan't dubya to personally to come out here and fix that ******* pothole.

and madrid's metro system is insane, btw

That's what I'm ******* talking about. Upgrading our infrastructure is more important to our economy and national security than fighting a useless expensive war.

I love the United States but there's alot of shit we need to fix here. I know our politicians use infrastructure to get around but I guess the pitfalls don't really frustrate them enough.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 10:55 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by sbarn
On the other hand... passenger travel via railway in the U.S. is nothing short of embarrasing:

Sorry, but America is not just the US.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 12:11 AM   #584
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this graph refers to all countries of both north and south america. if africa is included, S. America must be included. these numbers are ****** pathetic.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 12:47 AM   #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gronier
Sorry, but America is not just the US.
No kidding... but this discussion is about the U.S. and the U.S. is located on the continent of America. No matter, the point is that rail travel in all of the Americas is pretty much non-existant. Freight on the other hand is a different story.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 12:52 AM   #586
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EU.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 01:46 AM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
Your point is very valid. The construction of an underground system does indeed depend on the ground below. Certainly, some types of ground make it more difficult and expensive to build subways. A perfect example of this is London. If you look at a map of London, you can see most of the network is North of the river. The reason for this is because the clay and sand in the south makes it very expensive to bore tunnels. London however got around this by building the massive above ground network which can be seen in the South.

However, where there is a will, there is a way. Venice is currently constructing it's first subway line, which is quite remarkable considering the difficulties involved. The entire line will be in the lagoon areas with connecting foot tunnels to land points.

I am also surprised that Houston has such a problem with soil considering their number of excellent skyscrapers. These buildings needs good strong foundations.
i don't understand venice's rational...subway as opposed to surface rail so not to disrupt historical areas perhaps. but often in the united states, if there is a cheaper mode of undertaking a project, the better. the amount of money and resources to build a subway system in houston would be far too prohibitive...especially in a city addicted to the car and sprawly such as this.

most of the skyscrapers were built by oil firms rolling basking in the oil boom and on an ego trip where as a subway is subject to stingy taxpayers and congress.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 02:41 AM   #588
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well question should be: does american feel anything special about european infrastructure or hate their own and vice versa. That would be more accurate. No european is in position to judge american infrastructure based on absence of trains as americans don't believe in travelling through trains (holds true for americans too).
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Old April 15th, 2006, 02:51 AM   #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytler
well question should be: does american feel anything special about european infrastructure or hate their own and vice versa. That would be more accurate. No european is in position to judge american infrastructure based on absence of trains as americans don't believe in travelling through trains (holds true for americans too).
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Old April 15th, 2006, 02:54 AM   #590
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Originally Posted by DonQui

?? I would "prefer" an explanation, ALL KNOWING and UNDERSTANDING one.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 02:56 AM   #591
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Originally Posted by tytler
?? I would "prefer" an explanation, ALL KNOWING and UNDERSTANDING one.
American's don't take trains.

Never been to New York have you? Or Boston? Or Philadelphia? Or Washington? Or Chicago? Or San Francisco?

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Old April 15th, 2006, 03:03 AM   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
American's don't take trains.

Never been to New York have you? Or Boston? Or Philadelphia? Or Washington? Or Chicago? Or San Francisco?


Hmmm...yes you are right..America starts and ends in NY,Boston...And there is a "train" and then there is a "train" which takes you from one city to another. Also, how many americans would choose train if they can manage a car (yeh in NYC/Boston)...I have seen almost empty metro lines in DC and completly full one too..

And yes, considering the fact that US is 290 million strong, americans don't "travel" in train (though word should be metro/monorail...)

P.S: it would be easy to take a poll here and see how many americans actually pick trains over car..
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Old April 15th, 2006, 03:05 AM   #593
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and then they raise the temperature of the world by 10 degrees an hour.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 04:15 AM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytler
Hmmm...yes you are right..America starts and ends in NY,Boston...And there is a "train" and then there is a "train" which takes you from one city to another. Also, how many americans would choose train if they can manage a car (yeh in NYC/Boston)...I have seen almost empty metro lines in DC and completly full one too..

And yes, considering the fact that US is 290 million strong, americans don't "travel" in train (though word should be metro/monorail...)

P.S: it would be easy to take a poll here and see how many americans actually pick trains over car..
America dos not start and end with NY, but when the wealthy liberal parts of the country make up a significant chunk of the population, certainly comes out to more than no one.



And frankly, what Jesusland does in its auto-dependent cities, while it ****s up the environment, really has no impact on how I live aside from global climate change. I just hope that you guys don't start begging New York for money when oil become so ridiculously high that your transportation infrastructure literally collapses.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 04:51 AM   #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
America dos not start and end with NY, but when the wealthy liberal parts of the country make up a significant chunk of the population, certainly comes out to more than no one.



And frankly, what Jesusland does in its auto-dependent cities, while it ****s up the environment, really has no impact on how I live aside from global climate change. I just hope that you guys don't start begging New York for money when oil become so ridiculously high that your transportation infrastructure literally collapses.

Texas is second biggest economy in US after California. And I have never been to south so I don't know much about jesusland but people use train in NYC because it's cheap and hassle free. I used to make daily trip between Edison, NJ and NYC and the only reason NJT was popular because driving everyday to NYC is tough and expensive. Train was not a "preference" but necessity. I doubt europeans see train travel in that way. As I said, if car and train provide you almost same experience, monetarily and traffic wise, do tell me how many americans would pick train.

by the way JESUSLAND rocks and so are the chicks from Jesusland
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Old April 15th, 2006, 06:36 AM   #596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytler
Texas is second biggest economy in US after California. And I have never been to south so I don't know much about jesusland but people use train in NYC because it's cheap and hassle free. I used to make daily trip between Edison, NJ and NYC and the only reason NJT was popular because driving everyday to NYC is tough and expensive. Train was not a "preference" but necessity. I doubt europeans see train travel in that way. As I said, if car and train provide you almost same experience, monetarily and traffic wise, do tell me how many americans would pick train.

by the way JESUSLAND rocks and so are the chicks from Jesusland
new york is still 2nd largest economy after california. most cities in here fly-over country were built-up around the car (post WW2) and are spread out where as NYC/ boston and european cities are older and more compact and more practical for rail.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 12:09 PM   #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmancuso
i don't understand venice's rational...subway as opposed to surface rail so not to disrupt historical areas perhaps. but often in the united states, if there is a cheaper mode of undertaking a project, the better. the amount of money and resources to build a subway system in houston would be far too prohibitive...especially in a city addicted to the car and sprawly such as this.

most of the skyscrapers were built by oil firms rolling basking in the oil boom and on an ego trip where as a subway is subject to stingy taxpayers and congress.
This is essentially the gist of it, as well as environmental issues. No one would want to see a railway line carve up the beautiful Venice lagoon and then pile through the dense, carless streets. The only option is to go underground. This is enormously expensive for Venice because they can't go under the actual city due to fears it may begin sinking again (During the turn of the last century, water wells were dug right across the city and this caused the city to start sinking as the water table below emptied. This was stopped in the '60's and Venice has since pretty much stopped sinking since then)

The case for aesthetics is also valid for most of the rest of Europe. In fact, it is part of the reason why Europe has so few skyscrapers in the central areas, as people here don't like their cities torn apart for infrastructure (highways, car parks in downtown, railways and even skyscrapers). It is worth the extra money to build these things underground.

For example, Frankfurt has many large underground carparks (I'm sure many US cities do as well) but in central Frankfurt the only type of carpark you will find are underground ones, which from my experience in the US, you see many multistory above ground carparks and many street level ones as well.

Spending money to keep the central area's beautiful is very important to Europeans. And infrastructure, equally important must also follow certain rules, especially in central city area's.

I would suspect that the main reason Houston doesn't have an underground subway is because of the way the city developed, into low density sprawl. It simply doesn't have the density to build such infrastructure. Metro's only work when there are large groups of people within close walking proximity to stations. It would simply be a waste of money to built a subway that goes to low density suburbs.

We also have different attitudes between the regions to how a city should develop. Because of obvious space available, Houston built out in suburban sprawl. Texans have become so used to this, I would imagine the majority prefer it. Drag a Houstonian (is that what you guys are called) to Madrid, and they may be shortly impressed with the infrastructure, but soon long for their space and lower densities, and their garage with their car. Likewise, if you drag a Madridian (I'm probably loosing this one with Madrid's naming convention) to the suburbs of Houston, they will no doubt marvel at the size of their new house, but soon miss the high densities, street life and transport infrastructure of back home.

There is no doubt that Houston has great highway infrastructure. Madrid may not have the same visual highway infrastructure, as is typical of European cities, they avoid building motorways right into the downtown areas, but it is still excellent. The public transport infrastructure in Madrid on the other hand is brilliant.

Essentially, what I am saying, is that both regions do what is needed for their style of living. Yes, I do think the infrastructure is greater in Europe, but that is because of different lifestyles. Cars simply require less infrastructure, and the US in general is designed much more for cars. The infrastructure works well for Americans, if it didn't, then I am sure they would improve it.

However, as in the Nationmaster list I pointed out before, car ownership levels is no real difference in Europe than in the US. Italians in fact have the highest percentage of car ownership in the world. However, people do use their cars far less as the public transport infrastructure is more advanced - mainly because it needs to be. They don't like their city centers filled up with carparks, and they don't like giant 8-10 lane motorways carving up their inner neighbourhood districts, and finally, they also have environment issues to think about.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 05:46 PM   #598
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Hrmmm... I should post some more pictures of stack interchanges to make these Euros shit themselves.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 06:54 PM   #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddington
Hrmmm... I should post some more pictures of stack interchanges to make these Euros shit themselves.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...n=0.019737,0.1
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...19639,0.054159
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...009779,0.02708
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...19679,0.054159
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Old April 15th, 2006, 08:12 PM   #600
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Some people here assume quantity equals quality (bigger is better?). American freeways are very impressive, but they are lacking the quality of the German Autobahn.
I don't have to repeat what other said about public transport, which is in Europe more developed.
And i don't have the knowlegde to judge about infrastructure for planes, but overall Europe seems to have a better infrastructure.
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