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Old March 25th, 2009, 07:13 AM   #321
LtBk
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But can driving mentality be changed?
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Old March 25th, 2009, 07:27 AM   #322
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I think so.
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Old March 25th, 2009, 07:36 AM   #323
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Simply the social insurance or what is it called shouldn't pay for the hospital treatment of those, who suffered an accident with a non-fastened seatbelt. I think only such measures could reduce the injuries, at least here in Hungary, since most of the deaths and injuries are because of the lack of using seatbelts.
I can accept this argument, but in this case EVERY self-damaging(and risking) activity should be fined...

e.g.: smoking, excessive drinking, extreme sports, ect.
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Old March 25th, 2009, 07:48 AM   #324
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Agreed. On a slightly more serious note, as you and Ingienøren (I think...) touched upon, one of the most important safety measures is to reduce the injuries sustained if someone ends up off the road at speed. Crash barriers, removing trees and rocks, wide, carefully thought out "exit zones" etc all save lives.
I suggested this "removing trees" thing in a hungarian "road" forum, but I was judged a "tree killer"...
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Old March 25th, 2009, 07:52 AM   #325
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Around 1970, more than 500 were killed on Norwegian roads annually, currently we're at 250 - even though traffic volumes have at least quadrupled.
oh, thats nothing...

in 1990 we have 2500 fatalities, now we are bellow 1000...
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Old March 25th, 2009, 08:10 AM   #326
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...will be fixated on their speedometre going over everything from cats to newborn babies.
yeah, I was thinking this "problem":

if I hit something/someone is it an excuse that I was gazing at the speedometer?
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Old March 25th, 2009, 08:14 AM   #327
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I think mentality is more important than quality of roads. Not all roads can be good, and sooner or later you'll have to drive one, you can't drive solely on motorways and other main roads. In many societies people drive incredibly recklessly even on good roads/motorways.
partly true...

but it DOES matter how long you have to drive on bad/slow roads...

only on 10-30km in a 500km trip, or on all of the 500km...
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Old March 25th, 2009, 11:59 AM   #328
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A bit funny you would call me a nazi because i'm worried about people dying on the roads, it seems more like nazi-thinking to do business as usual, and their deaths are their own fault. I'm sure you all know more than one person killed in a trafic-accident in a young age - how can that not be a tragedy, no matter how stupid and recless they are?
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Old March 25th, 2009, 12:29 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
in 1990 we have 2500 fatalities, now we are bellow 1000...
The most important lesson to be learnt from such figures, is that it's very possible to combat road deaths. Some means are popular (more motorways, safer cars etc), other less (seat belt laws, lowered speed limits etc), but they all play a part. Of course, mentality plays an important part, if drunk-driving goes from being accepted to being reported, fatality rates will drop considerably.
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Old March 25th, 2009, 12:54 PM   #330
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Quote:
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I think mentality is more important than quality of roads. Not all roads can be good, and sooner or later you'll have to drive one, you can't drive solely on motorways and other main roads. In many societies people drive incredibly recklessly even on good roads/motorways.
Depends on what you mean by good

I'm not saying that every village needs a highway. But the things I listed above should be a minimum, and we are very far away from even that (tens of billions of euros far). And yet the government finds it necessery to harass people if they dont have a spare lightbulb in the car...
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Old March 25th, 2009, 12:59 PM   #331
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A bit funny you would call me a nazi because i'm worried about people dying on the roads, it seems more like nazi-thinking to do business as usual, and their deaths are their own fault. I'm sure you all know more than one person killed in a trafic-accident in a young age - how can that not be a tragedy, no matter how stupid and recless they are?
You suggested a GPS controlled speed limit. If that happens, I'm taking up arms.
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Old March 25th, 2009, 01:02 PM   #332
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You suggested a GPS controlled speed limit. If that happens, I'm taking up arms.
Yeah, I'm 100% against that too. It gives government ways to control ridiculous speed limits, or take it even further, when they don't want people to drive, you simply can't (sounds far-fetched now, but you'll never know what kind of government you'll end up with in 10 years). I'd rather take my freedom.
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Old March 25th, 2009, 01:06 PM   #333
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There are two reasons why accidents happen: human behaviour and the mechanics of the vechicle/road.

As far as humans go, everyone has a responsibility. And yes, the government can and should discourage dangerous behaviour. But NOT by intimidation, not by the means of safety nazism. There are far too many people from NIMBYs to radicals who think its a good idea, but i hated conformists all my life...

As far as mechanics of the vechicle and the road go, the government ALMOST ALWAYS neglects its responsibilities and does a half-assed job costing lives.


My all-time favourite is when NIMBYs protest against a bypass road claiming it will kill trees and bugs.....and then the next day they are protesting downtown against the dangers of heavy traffic.
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Old March 25th, 2009, 01:08 PM   #334
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Yeah, I'm 100% against that too. It gives government ways to control ridiculous speed limits, or take it even further, when they don't want people to drive, you simply can't (sounds far-fetched now, but you'll never know what kind of government you'll end up with in 10 years). I'd rather take my freedom.
Exactly. If they know where you are every second, then they know your exact speed. Maybe they will institute a new tax: you are allowed to go faster but for every second above the limit you pay 1 EUR/accesive kph.

Overtake on the motorway for 30 seconds at 160 kph will you? Pay 900 EUR
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Old March 25th, 2009, 01:17 PM   #335
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People are not perfect. So what. By aiming for perfection you set yourself the ultimate goal.
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Old March 25th, 2009, 01:42 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
A bit funny you would call me a nazi because i'm worried about people dying on the roads...
no, he used the "nazi" term, cause you want to give to the government too much control...

(maybe it was too excessive... )
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Old March 25th, 2009, 01:50 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
The most important lesson to be learnt from such figures, is that it's very possible to combat road deaths. Some means are popular (more motorways, safer cars etc), other less (seat belt laws, lowered speed limits etc), but they all play a part. Of course, mentality plays an important part, if drunk-driving goes from being accepted to being reported, fatality rates will drop considerably.
some basic rules:

1. you can ALWAYS reduce the numbers, but you can NEVER reach zero.

2. the lower the number the more difficult to reduce it...
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Old March 25th, 2009, 01:58 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
There are two reasons why accidents happen: human behaviour and the mechanics of the vechicle/road.
the statistics says interesting things:

- in hungary the accident rate is NOT higher than in WE
- but fatality rate is significantly higher

this difference is because of seatbelt unfastening and the less safe cars...

so: everybody FASTEN that belt, and buy a VOLVO...
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Old March 25th, 2009, 02:04 PM   #339
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Exactly. If they know where you are every second...
GPS-speedcontrol doesnt mean tracking...

its like current GPS devices would be connected to the cars onboard computer and could control the speed...
...and not only to say: YOU ARE GOING TOO FAST!

(mine says: heyya, slow down now! )

Last edited by H123Laci; March 25th, 2009 at 02:11 PM.
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Old March 25th, 2009, 03:36 PM   #340
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CPR training + exam, 20 (?) hrs of studying + exam, 20 (?) hrs of driving on the track + exam, 20 (?) hrs of driving on the road (incl night, highway) + exam

takes several months and costs a fortune



after that you can safely operate a car....but of course you cant drive just yet..
I wish we could adapt something like this for driver's ed in the US, but as long as its done on a state level, and depend on our cars for everything, its not going to happen.
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