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Old November 6th, 2013, 10:47 PM   #3821
Vertical_Gotham
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My view of needing more affordable housing in particular in prime Manhattan would be unpopular, but what is wrong being priced out of Manhattan??

I mean it's good the way things are set up presently for requiring affordable housing, but the need for more in Manhattan?? I dunno.

What's wrong with Queens, Brooklyn, Harlem, Bronx & Staten Island??

These area's excluding Harlem has more land area than space hungry Manhattan for more of these types of housing!

I mean many people would love to live in Beverly Hills, but can't afford so what is wrong finding a place to call home in the next town over or maybe the next one after that? I dunno. just my .02 cents.
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Old November 6th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #3822
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You're spot on. Not to mention that if the city keeps the same format but using the money to build the affordable housing in areas where land is cheaper rather than in those expensive neighborhoods, the amount of affordable housing will increase as developers will be able to build more units, which after all should be the end game. And who cares about it not being in manhattan, areas all over NYC are being gentrified; people these days would choose Williamsburg, Dumbo or LIC over parts of manhattan any time so that idea of Manhattan being too exclusive doesn't fit the current make up of NYC or its future.

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Old November 6th, 2013, 11:34 PM   #3823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
My view of needing more affordable housing in particular in prime Manhattan would be unpopular, but what is wrong being priced out of Manhattan??
Social mix is how you build a happy society.

Anyways my question was whether 'affordable' is affordable in New York or still out of reach for 90% of New Yorkers?
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Old November 6th, 2013, 11:55 PM   #3824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Social mix is how you build a happy society.

Anyways my question was whether 'affordable' is affordable in New York or still out of reach for 90% of New Yorkers?
There is plenty of social mix in Manhattan so there is no issue here.

As far as affordable goes, my understanding is you can get a pretty nice 1 bedroom apartment for lets say $800 per month. If that same apt is being offered at market rate, it could command $3,600 per month.

If you want a smaller unit in a less luxurious place then the monthly could be even cheaper. I supposed you can find rent as cheap as $400 a month. I dunno. So it seems pretty affordable imo.

Edit: Here is an article I just found

PRESENTING: The Only 4 Ways To Get A Cheap Apartment In New York City
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-t...rk-city-2013-8

Last edited by Vertical_Gotham; November 7th, 2013 at 12:09 AM.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 12:13 AM   #3825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Social mix is how you build a happy society.

Anyways my question was whether 'affordable' is affordable in New York or still out of reach for 90% of New Yorkers?
Rent stabilization keeps housing affordable for those who have lived in NYC for many years. But the barriers to entry for new residents is very high with market rents at $4,000 for a 1 bedroom in Manhattan. If you're looking to move to NYC and aren't already rich or have a high paying job, don't bother.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 12:18 AM   #3826
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Thanks guys, that explains it.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 01:39 AM   #3827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
I mean many people would love to live in Beverly Hills, but can't afford so what is wrong finding a place to call home in the next town over or maybe the next one after that? I dunno. just my .02 cents.
Hang on. You just tried to compare Beverly Hills, which amounts to a wealthy, shopping-heavy suburb of 35,000 residents, to Manhattan, which houses 1.6 million people and is the center of the Western economy and culture.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 02:06 AM   #3828
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Hang on. You just tried to compare Beverly Hills, which amounts to a wealthy, shopping-heavy suburb of 35,000 residents, to Manhattan, which houses 1.6 million people and is the center of the Western economy and culture.
Yes I did. If people are getting priced out in Manhattan, is there a difference with people getting priced out in Beverly Hills? Size does not matter much if this is the case. Obviously, the Market & economics is the driving factor in both places.The next logical step looking for more affordable housing is to look in neighboring towns.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 02:18 AM   #3829
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.....

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Old November 7th, 2013, 02:56 AM   #3830
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^
I don't think so...


Baccarat Hotel 10.18

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New York by st_hart, on Flickr
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Old November 7th, 2013, 04:14 AM   #3831
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Crane up at 30 Park Place

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Woolworth / 30 Park Pl. 99 Church St. by www.JackBermanNYC.com, on Flickr
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Old November 7th, 2013, 06:10 AM   #3832
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Awesome.. can't wait for 30 park place
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Old November 7th, 2013, 06:14 AM   #3833
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It will block that majestic view of woolworth?
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Old November 7th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #3834
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It will actually cover Woolworth's butt-side, so it's ok. Anyway, it should be a pretty building on its own anyway, fitting with surroundings.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 08:02 PM   #3835
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One view, three new towers:

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/savior1980/
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Old November 7th, 2013, 08:41 PM   #3836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
Yes I did. If people are getting priced out in Manhattan, is there a difference with people getting priced out in Beverly Hills? Size does not matter much if this is the case. Obviously, the Market & economics is the driving factor in both places.The next logical step looking for more affordable housing is to look in neighboring towns.
There are two issues that I didn't articulate before that I think you're missing, Manhattan's geographic isolation and the fact that it's home to thousands of major companies -- which dovetail into a problem of workforce. If you price out the everyday workers, you're going to turn Manhattan into a primarily commuter city, with more and more people journeying further to reach their offices from their affordable homes in Staten Island or New Jersey or wherever. The fact that Manhattan is an island means its ingresses are traffic bottlenecks (bridges, subways and tunnels). LA has this problem, as a huge proportion of workers live in "the Valley," separated geographically from the business centers by a mountain range, and forced to commute through a handful of access points. It's the root of LA's famously bad commuter congestion, and that's the path that an emigrating middle-and-lower-class workforce is putting Manhattan on.

Not to mention the companies that have been known to relocate to more affordable environs in order to mitigate the commute times of their workers (especially given the pressure on corporations to "go green.") Worst case scenario, you'll see companies actually leaving Manhattan over the issue.

In any case, what we're looking at is an increasingly homogenous Manhattanite culture of wealthy management types and non-workers who look to pat themselves on the back by buying trophy properties they may or may not live in (while incentivising bland chains like Whole Foods to push out the hole-in-the-wall restaurants and bodegas that make the place exciting). While it may be the current natural direction of the economy, it's threatening to turn Manhattan into a pretty dull place, and I think that's something worth getting bothered about.

As far as skyscrapers go, I think we all find the 432 Parks and 111 W. 57ths impressive. But at the same time, they represent the success of a very few people, whereas the soaring office towers that used to be the crown jewels of New York, represented the success of a whole nation.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 08:59 PM   #3837
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That's a fair point but there are plenty of areas in Manhattan that are not as posh as where most of those high end residentials are being built and where land is not as expensive, but are increasingly being gentrified and could need more affordable housing. I'm thinking of the Lower East Side, Inwood or even West Harlem, all which are more and more popular with the younger crowd. So building affordable housing outside of the high end areas of the city doesn't necessarily means most of the medium to lower income NYers will move to other boroughs, Manhattan itself needs to improve in that area.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 12:22 AM   #3838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
My view of needing more affordable housing in particular in prime Manhattan would be unpopular, but what is wrong being priced out of Manhattan??

I mean it's good the way things are set up presently for requiring affordable housing, but the need for more in Manhattan?? I dunno.

What's wrong with Queens, Brooklyn, Harlem, Bronx & Staten Island??

These area's excluding Harlem has more land area than space hungry Manhattan for more of these types of housing!

I mean many people would love to live in Beverly Hills, but can't afford so what is wrong finding a place to call home in the next town over or maybe the next one after that? I dunno. just my .02 cents.
Realistically there are plenty of spaces to have affordable living. It is that the city has no money for it. so all this by De Blasio has very little meaning unless he will be able to conjure some green out of his pockets.
On the other hand if De Blasio will buy into this rhetoric about the notion that development for super rich makes life not affordable and thus development has to stop - will only make the city stagnate.

The solution IMHO is to present a mix bag of goodies to developers the same way Bloomberg did. Like for example: the city gives you certain development rights and you as a result give up some of your apartments for affordable living or better yet build some separate building for this. If this is indeed what De Blasio will do then all this "2 cities" politics will die a soon death and good riddance.

Don't get me wrong - all my friends complain about impossibility to buy anything in the city. Rules favor big companies in business in the expense of the small guy - like taxi business which is being squeezed hard by the city authorities. And etc and etc. Something has to be done about all this and make sure that the little guy is not eliminated from the city business/ living. But please, please, please not another round of cheap housing projects for those who can't afford anything.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #3839
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Realistically there are plenty of spaces to have affordable living. It is that the city has no money for it. so all this by De Blasio has very little meaning unless he will be able to conjure some green out of his pockets.
On the other hand if De Blasio will buy into this rhetoric about the notion that development for super rich makes life not affordable and thus development has to stop - will only make the city stagnate.

The solution IMHO is to present a mix bag of goodies to developers the same way Bloomberg did. Like for example: the city gives you certain development rights and you as a result give up some of your apartments for affordable living or better yet build some separate building for this. If this is indeed what De Blasio will do then all this "2 cities" politics will die a soon death and good riddance.

Don't get me wrong - all my friends complain about impossibility to buy anything in the city. Rules favor big companies in business in the expense of the small guy - like taxi business which is being squeezed hard by the city authorities. And etc and etc. Something has to be done about all this and make sure that the little guy is not eliminated from the city business/ living. But please, please, please not another round of cheap housing projects for those who can't afford anything.
You're points are contradictory. I mean, look, I think a lot of the public sentiment about "affordable housing" is that it's [only] for the poor or elderly, which is far from the truth. It's great that the city is recognizing that the cost of living is becoming a problem. IT.IS.A.PROBLEM. I don't know if you've noticed, but unless the city can continue to attract talent, it's not going to continue to grow. Many other cities (in the US and abroad) are coming to eat NY's lunch, unless they step up and take care of these things.

To be honest, it's not sensible (from a planning aspect) to just say to everyone, "go live in Queens and Brooklyn and ride the train in to your job," if the city, State, and DC aren't going to put in the proper funds to add capacity. No one's saying that we need to have Central Park views or anything of the sort, but that there needs to be incentives for developers to think about affordability in their schemes rather than just maximizing profit or catering to a small niche of buyers. From a market standpoint (and definitely from that of the city), it's more desirable and sustainable growth.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 02:20 AM   #3840
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Here's a good read about the shortage in rentals in NYC:

http://therealdeal.com/issues_articl...e-the-rentals/

I'm not sure if the city having no money to build affordable housing will have any affect on the issue cause Bloomberg's way of dealing with it was to sell city owned land and require certain amounts of new residential buildings to have a certain amount of affordable housing; and it worked, just not as much as needed. That's why there's a increasing notion that this method will stick but should be improved in a sense that instead of developers sparing a percentage of affordable housing in their new buildings, the city is better off having them built where land is cheaper and more housing can be built.
I also agree with the above statement, affordable housing is very much needed if NYC wants to stay competitive, we can't just be a city for the rich and besides, young people and people who have medium to low incomes contribute vastly to the city's economy and we need to attract as many as we can and make sure that they have an incentive to live in the city.

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