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Old February 5th, 2007, 12:24 AM   #301
poponoso
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The total number of platforms for the 5 main stations in Buenos Aires is 81...
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Old February 5th, 2007, 01:02 AM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eomer View Post

Paris-Lyon, Paris-Austerlitz, Paris-Bercy and Paris-Bibliothèque François Mitterand are almost the same station too.
not really

but Paris-Austerlitz and Paris-Bibliothèque François Mitterand will become the same station with the renovation of Auzterliz station and the TGV.

Paris bercy is the night train terminal of the Gare de Lyon
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Old February 5th, 2007, 01:28 PM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Luc View Post

(re. Sydney station)

Only platforms 1-15 are terminating ones. Platforms 16-25 are through ones for suburban trains heading into and out of the CBD.
I don't have a problem with this - the station has 25 platforms- I just don't want to see the tracks counted again somewhere further down the track. Look at the photo of Shanghai South Station posted above: all the platforms appear to run right through, but in my book it still counts as a terminal (or terminus!).

Due to different modes of operation, comparing stations has been fraught with difficulties. One example: in Melbourne, Southern cross is now sporting extra platforms, two north, three north etc., with the appropriate trackwork to enable them to function as independent platforms, even though they are extensions of platforms two and three.

One city I do wonder about is Tokyo, where Tokyo, Ueno, Shinjuku, etc. which are all listed here are all part of a loop. Witthout paying a visit, I guess I'll never know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poponoso View Post
The total number of platforms for the 5 main stations in Buenos Aires is 81...
As for Buenos Aires, well bring them on!

Last edited by Yardmaster; February 5th, 2007 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Easiest way to quote several previous postings
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Old February 9th, 2007, 07:06 AM   #304
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About Tokyo- the main terminus stations are all located on the Yamanote Loop line. They are all city centers with major offices and shops. Inside the loop are more offices/residences/shops, but not as much as the loop stations. The subway is mostly located inside the loop.

Each major station on the loop is the terminus for a private railway that spokes out in a direction away from Tokyo. Tokyo is the east hub to Chiba, Ueno is the northeast hub to Chiba and Ibaraki, Akabane is the north hub to Gunma, Saitama and Tochigi, Ikebukuro is the northwest hub to Saitama, Shinjuku is the west hub to West Tokyo, Shibuya is the southwest hub to Kanagawa, and Shinagawa is the south hub to Yokohama and the west side of Tokyo bay.
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Old February 9th, 2007, 11:14 AM   #305
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Amsterdam Central Station, Holland

Not so big, 15 platforms,











*extra building for the bus and cars*


it's not a good overvieuw picture but i couldn't find more...
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Old February 24th, 2007, 03:48 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frungy View Post
About Tokyo- the main terminus stations are all located on the Yamanote Loop line. They are all city centers with major offices and shops. Inside the loop are more offices/residences/shops, but not as much as the loop stations. The subway is mostly located inside the loop.

Each major station on the loop is the terminus for a private railway that spokes out in a direction away from Tokyo. Tokyo is the east hub to Chiba, Ueno is the northeast hub to Chiba and Ibaraki, Akabane is the north hub to Gunma, Saitama and Tochigi, Ikebukuro is the northwest hub to Saitama, Shinjuku is the west hub to West Tokyo, Shibuya is the southwest hub to Kanagawa, and Shinagawa is the south hub to Yokohama and the west side of Tokyo bay.
Thanks ... I sort of realize all this, and have an album of about 50 pages on Japanese railways printed out, including the internal layouts of some of those stations, and certainly the overall connectivity of the Yamanote Loop.

I'm not a great international traveller myself, for want of money rather than enthusiasm.

I first kicked off this thread in response to a similar thread regarding freight ... rather flippantly.

It's been educative, but very difficult to manage, especially because of repeated problems of definition. Manage? This is a democratic forum, I hope ... and hopefully not just educative for me alone.

It seems to have boiled down to a platform count ... but even there there are problems of definition. Train movements, passengers, train-kilometres, passenger-kilometres? Metro/commuter/real rail ?

And what is the worth of an unused platform?
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Old February 24th, 2007, 10:07 PM   #307
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Does anybody have any photos of Leeds city station, they did it out a few years ago, it looks really good now, it has a great new roof and its been on that list made up, having 17 platforms. Thanks in advance.
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Old February 24th, 2007, 10:08 PM   #308
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I only have this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_City_railway_station
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Old February 26th, 2007, 12:32 AM   #309
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Some facts about German stations:

Frankfurt Main Station
passengers/day: 350000 - Germany's busiest
trains/day: ~1800 (~1100 s-bahn, 290 regional, 342 long distance) + xxx metro
hall size: 230m*186m
platforms: 32 (24 overground, 4 s-bahn underground, 4 metro underground)
tram stations: 3
other major Frankfurt stations:
+ Südbahnhof - tracks: 15 (13 og, 2 metro ug), platforms: 12 (10 og, 2 metro ug), passengers: ???
+ Höchst - tracks: 14, platforms: 12, passengers: ???
+ Flughafen (Airport) - tracks&platforms: 7 (4 og, 3ug), passengers (overground long-distance station): 20000

München (Munich) Main Station
passengers/day: 350000 - 2nd in Germany
trains/day: 1433 (967 s-bahn, 246 regional, 220 long-distance) + xxx metro
platforms: 40 (32 og, 4 s-bahn ug (only 2 tracks), 2*2 metro ug)
tram stations: 4
other major Munich stations:
+ Pasing - tracks: 14, platforms: 9, passengers: ???
+ Ostbahnhof - tracks: 19 (17 og, 2 metro ug), platforms: 16 (12 passengers og, 2 cars og, 2 metro ug), passengers: ???

Berlin Main Station
passengers/day: ??? (250000 calculated)
trains/day: > 1000 s-bahn, 324 regional, 164 long-distance + xxx metro
platforms: 16 (6 og, 8 ug, 2 metro ug)
other major Berlin stations:
+ Ostbahnhof - tracks: 11, platforms: 9, passengers: 90000, trains: 1226 (891 s-bahn, 200 regional, 135 long-distance)
+ Zoo - tracks&platforms: 10 (6 og, 2*2 metro ug), passengers: ???
+ Südkreuz - tracks&platforms: 10, passengers: ???, trains: 1319 (1115 s-bahn, 114 regional, 90 long-distance)
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Old February 26th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #310
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Excellent reply.

Let's get our Global Definitions finalized.

Passengers: ? Those who move through the barriers, in or out?

Trains. ? Does a train that arrives as a terminal and then departs, count as two trains , or just one? If it split up, and after it arrived, departed at two seperate trains, how would we count it ?

Platforms. What is a platform? Where is the longest platform?

Suppose a platform has points or switches or whatever else you chose to call them, arranged along its length to enable independent operation of trains in and out of the ... platform. Is that one platform, or many?

Hypothetical? Certainly not. My own city terminals lay claim to some very, very, long platforms , but there are cross-overs ... allegedly one of them was the third-longest in the world.

So ... is a platform defined by the distance a railway track lies parallel to something somewhat higher that humans can stand on or is it operationally defined?
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Old February 26th, 2007, 04:41 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post

Let's get our Global Definitions finalized.

Passengers: ? Those who move through the barriers, in or out?
Would be lovely, but we are at the mercy here of the varying transport companies in each city/country. We can only use the information they give us and they are all different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Trains. ? Does a train that arrives as a terminal and then departs, count as two trains , or just one?
I would imagine they count as a single train, and is either logged as "no. of departures" or "no. of arrivals"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
If it split up, and after it arrived, departed at two seperate trains, how would we count it ?
Again, I would imagine this is 1 arrival and 2 departures. At the end, we can total the number of arrivals and departures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Platforms. What is a platform? Where is the longest platform?
A platform should be defined as either how they are numbered or lettered. I know we have the problem of split platforms here. And this must depend on the specific station. i.e. Platform 1a and 1b (or 1North, and 1South) could be in reality 2 fully seperate platforms. I.e. trains either always terminate at one end or the other and never both. In this case, they could be considered two platforms. However, sometimes a longer train may stop at both and use them as a single platform.

The easiest way is to simply treat each physically seperate platform as 1. But again, that could be inaccurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Suppose a platform has points or switches or whatever else you chose to call them, arranged along its length to enable independent operation of trains in and out of the ... platform. Is that one platform, or many?
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Hypothetical? Certainly not. My own city terminals lay claim to some very, very, long platforms , but there are cross-overs ... allegedly one of them was the third-longest in the world.
And is all of the platform used for boarding trains? Another question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
So ... is a platform defined by the distance a railway track lies parallel to something somewhat higher that humans can stand on or is it operationally defined?
Generally, for these main stations, all platforms are raised. I can't image any major station which doesn't have a raised platform.

I would love to see some of these standardized, but in reality, I suspect we will run into heaps of trouble. If we do go this far with all this work, the results should somehow be stored or published outside of this thread. Afterall, we would hate to do all this effort and then loose it someday. Anyone have the time to create a webpage to hold this data?
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Old February 26th, 2007, 04:56 PM   #312
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Good to see someone's thinking!

The split-platform phenomenon is something of a problem for me, in assessing platforms ... platform length?

It shouldn't have been ... more than half a century before my father led me up to "1 North" or "1 Extension" to take me home to my birthplace ....
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Old February 26th, 2007, 05:19 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Good to see someone's thinking!

The split-platform phenomenon is something of a problem for me, in assessing platforms ... platform length?

It shouldn't have been ... more than half a century before my father led me up to "1 North" or "1 Extension" to take me home to my birthplace ....
Not a prob mate :O)

I think I see what you mean. Platform 1-South and Platform 1-North joint together make a very long "single" platform. But if they are used seperately, then are they indeed "one" platform, or two. Interesting question.

Personally, it feels as though they would have to be considered two seperate platforms if they are always used for two seperate services. But then, do we do this for all stations around the world?
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Old February 26th, 2007, 05:40 PM   #314
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Would a single, long platform become several others simply by removing several metres of concrete?
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Old February 26th, 2007, 06:01 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post

Would a single, long platform become several others simply by removing several metres of concrete?
If there is a physical barrier splitting the platform, then yes, I would imagine it is not a single platform. Would you agree?
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Old February 26th, 2007, 06:40 PM   #316
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Why is it London major termini are much smaller then Frances for example?

St Pancras has/will have 13 platforms when finished whilst it's French equivalent (Paris le Gare de Nord) has......well a lot more.

Anyway my local major station, Newcastle Central.

It has 12 tracks and 12 platforms.

But it's a strange layout, only five of the tracks with platform faces are through tracks. Two of these platforms faces are split into two platforms so they account for seven of the platform total and are not that big.

Five tracks have bay platforms and these are all on the main north side of the station. Four on the right of the main entrance as you walk in for southern traffic. And one on the left for northern traffic (usually an infrequent stopping train to Morpeth and Chathill).

In decades gone by there were about five more bay platforms on this side but they are long gone and replaced with a car park.

Inbetween these bay platforms is the ticket office/departure & arrivals board and 'wandering' area. The toilets are very limtied and you have to use the stations only over bridge to get to them. There is a lift down to an underground passage for disabled passengers.

Oh and there are two more tracks on the far side of the station without platform faces.

One of these tracks is a through track but bizarrley freight trains still pass through on one of the main inter-city platform facing tracks. Instead this through track is more commonly used to split the end platform in two.

The other platformless track runs from the east of the station and terminates abruptly at the western end next to the signal box.

Newcastle Central is also connected to the Tyne & Wear Metro and has two undergrund tracks.

One of this stations many nice features is the portico, much reduced form it's original envisaged size but still very grand.

Inside the station and it's curved inter-city platforms.




As you can see there used to be more tracks inbetween platforms.

Main passenger area.


How the east junction used to look (think it used to be the largest flat railway crossing in the world).



And now.


The portico.


From above.


How it was supposed to be.






Newcastle Central is on a notoriously tight curve with viaduct approaches on either side. Can't get a picture to properly show this but if you want to see it is on google earth.

I think Newcastle Central is also famed for it's curved structure, apparantley quite unique when it was constructed.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 07:19 PM   #317
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I remember that junction from "The Eagle Book of Trains". In my childhood.
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Old February 28th, 2007, 03:20 PM   #318
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London has more terminii as it had more companies vying for passengers at the beginning than France.

London had -

London Bridge, Cannon St, Blackfriars, Holborn Viaduct, Waterloo, Charing Cross, Victoria, Paddington, Marylebone, Euston, St P, King's X, Broad Street, Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street.

Don't know exactly for Paris but -
Gare Du Nord, Gare De L'Est, Gare Du Lyon, Gare D'Austerlitz, Gare Saint-Lazare and Gare Montparnasse.

As they are relatively similar in total usage (give or take 50%) it's not surprisong the French ones are grander individually.
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Old March 29th, 2007, 03:19 AM   #319
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Antwerp Central Station has 14 platforms on 3 levels, although 4 are still under construction.





Courtesy of Thermo:

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Old March 29th, 2007, 03:45 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
London has more terminii as it had more companies vying for passengers at the beginning than France.

London had -

London Bridge, Cannon St, Blackfriars, Holborn Viaduct, Waterloo, Charing Cross, Victoria, Paddington, Marylebone, Euston, St P, King's X, Broad Street, Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street.

Don't know exactly for Paris but -
Gare Du Nord, Gare De L'Est, Gare Du Lyon, Gare D'Austerlitz, Gare Saint-Lazare and Gare Montparnasse.
You forgot Bercy, a small station for the overnight trains to Italy and "Auto-Train" service and Pasteur (close to Montparnasse) for the Paris-Granville (Normandy) trains.

There used to be 4 more terminus stations in Paris:

Bastille: it has been closed in 1969 (steam engines until the end) and the line diverted underground to become the RER A. This commuter service used to go further than know (Verneuil l'Etang while now it's only going to Boissy Saint Léger). The station has been demolished in the 80' to make place for the (ugly) Opera.

Orsay: terminus for the then "P.O." (Paris Orleans). It used to link Paris and Bordeaux with fast and electric trains since the 30' to challenge "Etat" (State) company which had a similar service (but steam) from Austerlitz station in Paris. The station has been closed because the plateforms were to short and is now one of the most famous museum in Paris. RER trains still call there but underground.

Invalides: Use to have some trains to South Normandy and Britany in addition to a commuter service to Versailles, operated by "compagnie de l'Ouest", in competition with "Etat". It was closed in 1948. The building is still there, it's now an Air France selling point and a bus terminal for the airport shuttle buses.

Denfert Rochereau and Gare du Luxembourg: terminus for the "ligne de Sceaux". This Paris-Limours service (now Saint Rémy-Lès-Chevreuse) has been connected to Gare du Nord to make the RER B. The Denfert Rochereau station building is still there.
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