daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 10th, 2007, 05:00 PM   #381
GNU
Gnuru
 
GNU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Brave GNU World
Posts: 2,749
Likes (Received): 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku View Post
I have said than 274,000 passengers per average day (not workday) don't show the reality of this station because Gare Saint Lazare is empty the week ends.

Now weekends represent 30% of the year and this station is aslo empty on the holidays because unlike the other it has not a high intercity traffic.
But surely the normal intercity traffic increases on the weekends on other stations?
A few years back Ive been in Paris on the weekend, changing trains whilst coming from London.
It seemed much busier compared to the last time I was there which was on a normal workday.
I also never take any trains here in Germany on the weekends or in the holidays simply because they are awfully full no matter where you go.

Quote:
So if we beviele at that message.
it said that regarding passenger volume alone, Frankfurt HBF
is the second largest station outside Japan.

So the first outside Japan is Gare du Nord.
Never disputed that.
As I pointed out, Gare du nord has 500.000 travelers per day which is 50k more than Frankfurt.
However, in my opinion Frankfurt always seemed a bit busier to me.
(Maybe thats just my impression)
The passenger numbers are often estimated therefore there is a bit room for speculation.
GNU no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 10th, 2007, 05:17 PM   #382
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,759

Some station like Gare de l'Est, Gare Montparnasse or Gare Austerliz has a higher traffic in holiday than on workday.

Gare du Nord has several levels.
Suburban trains is at the same level than main lines but separed.
The RER B and D station are underground , and deeper it is the RER E station...
__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2007, 01:07 AM   #383
Rohne
Schwarzkutte
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Franconofurd
Posts: 831
Likes (Received): 361

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
As I pointed out, Gare du nord has 500.000 travelers per day which is 50k more than Frankfurt.
However, in my opinion Frankfurt always seemed a bit busier to me.
Maybe the reason is that passengers using U-Bahn, tram and especially S-Bahn which is also underground (not all lines but most) aren't counted. S-Bahn alone has more than 200000 passengers near the Hbf.
Rohne no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2007, 01:47 AM   #384
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,759

According my latest source RER B and RER D are also not include in the passengers of Gare du Nord, this impression is due at the suburban station is separated than the main line station

Gare du Nord are more than 200,000 passengers for the RER.
It has 130,000 passengers for only the RER B
About the same number for the RER D.
and a bit less than 100,000 for the RER E.
Those number are for the average day (not workday)

On workday
RER B has about 200,000 passengers
RER D has more than 100,000 passengers
RER E has more than 100,000 passengers.

In number of train I don't know because Gare du Nord is not the busiest of Paris in this term.
__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !

Last edited by Minato ku; June 11th, 2007 at 02:51 AM.
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2007, 09:07 AM   #385
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,952
Likes (Received): 780

There are several difficulties comparing train station flow numbers as each country (and often city) reports using different methods.

* Some count all arrivals and departures (including S-bahn, Subways, RER etc) others only from the long distance trains.
* Some stations have a complete honour system like those in Germany. With no ticket barriers to track people entering or leaving platforms, how are numbers compiled? In Frankfurt for instance, even the subway is based on honour tickets, so there is no accurate count there either.
* Some stations count transfer passengers, whilst others don't. This can make a very large difference.
* Some stations even count visitor figures. Those people that come to wave relatives goodbye, or pop in to buy a hamburger but not travel.

Because of this, official numbers when used to compare stations can often be completely irrelevant to each other.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2007, 01:37 PM   #386
Yardmaster
Registered Melbourne
 
Yardmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,152
Likes (Received): 198

Cities with the most platforms ....

I think this is what railcity was asking for ...?









These stats. have been updated for Chicago (n.i. La Salle) but not for Europe or anywhere else. I will do this in due course!

For those who think JR is the best, here's a separate table for Tokyo with outlying centres listed:



I'm not sure, if we're including stations in greater Metropolitan Tokyo, we shouldn't be including other stations in Greater London & NY as well.

Sorry if your city isn't here ... mine isn't either!
Yardmaster no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2007, 03:08 PM   #387
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,952
Likes (Received): 780

Great work as usual Yardmaster.

And you're right, we can't exclusively include Tokyo's metropolitan area stations, and not the metropolitan area of other cities. In London alone I can think of several other stations in the metro area which would exceed 10 platforms.

Then again, we decided against that as it would simply make the list far too long - and complicated as many countries have quite different interpretations of metropolitan area's.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2007, 03:32 PM   #388
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,759

Yes we can't include the whole metropitain area of Tokyo, or we would list other station for London, Osaka, Paris... It will be very complicated.

But I have one question, does the 17 platform of Yokohama include subway and other privated railways because for a station with 2 million passengers per day, it is low
I have aslo the same queston for Shibuya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
It is natural for a European railroad to lose 30 minutes from 15 minutes.
However, Tokyo and Osaka are delayed only for around 1 minute.
I think Japanese railway system to be the most superior in the world.
We agree but don't be so arrogant and chauvinist.
__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2007, 03:37 PM   #389
Yardmaster
Registered Melbourne
 
Yardmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,152
Likes (Received): 198

Not having been further north than Singapore, I'm only relying on what you guys tell me (and what I can find out off the web).
Yardmaster no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2007, 11:10 PM   #390
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,759

Don't forget that it is only the list for railway terminal over 10 platform.
__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2007, 12:01 AM   #391
Rohne
Schwarzkutte
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Franconofurd
Posts: 831
Likes (Received): 361

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Cities with the most "Terminal Platforms"
[pic with the list ]
I don't understand this list. None of the stations in Berlin (including Hauptbahnhof) is a terminus. So the whole city can't be part of the list if you count the way you announced. If you even add Ostbahnhof and Nordkreuz, then you must also add i.e. Frankfurt-Süd and Höchst, Munich-Ost and surely many other stations in different cities.
Rohne no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2007, 08:14 AM   #392
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,952
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohne View Post
I don't understand this list. None of the stations in Berlin (including Hauptbahnhof) is a terminus. So the whole city can't be part of the list if you count the way you announced. If you even add Ostbahnhof and Nordkreuz, then you must also add i.e. Frankfurt-Süd and Höchst, Munich-Ost and surely many other stations in different cities.
By terminus station, we are referring to the main disembarking stations of a city. Of cause, some cities have through stations that act as their terminus' but that doesn't discount them. If they have over 10 platforms and act as the city's gateway then it get's in.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2007, 03:25 PM   #393
FML
Registered User
 
FML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Saitama, JP
Posts: 521
Likes (Received): 49

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku View Post
But I have one question, does the 17 platform of Yokohama include subway and other privated railways because for a station with 2 million passengers per day, it is low
I have aslo the same queston for Shibuya.
Generally speaking, Japanese railway stations have much fewer platforms per users, compared with their counterparts in Europe. (Or, from Japanese POV, European stations have unnecessarily many platforms per users.)

Explanations I heard include:
1: European railway stations have evolved from the stations of extensive horse carriage networks, which had different platforms for departures and arrivals.
2: Many European termini are true "terminal" stations, where lines literally terminate, while Japanese large stations are often served by lines that do not terminate there (e.g. Yamanote, Keihin-Tohoku, Saikyo, subway thru services). It means European trains need more times to stay on platforms compared with those in Japan, thus the need for more platforms.
3: Many European trains are/were towed by locomotives, as opposed to Japanese trains that have been multiple units from 1950s. This can be another reason why European trains need more time at platforms.
4: Japanese asset price is expensive, so they possibly couldn't build as many platforms as they wanted.

I don't know which (or any) of these explanations are true, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Are which uncanny as for the network of railroads of Tokyo? I invited the British friend to Tokyo five years ago. He had said then, "It is overwhelmed and language does not come out."
Perhaps he was just being polite. The railway network in Greater London, at least its size, is something that rivals Greater Tokyo. If you measure the network length per population, I'm sure London (and many European cities for that matter) surpasses Tokyo by a large margin.
FML no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2007, 04:03 PM   #394
Trainman Dave
systems rule!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 499
Likes (Received): 17

mistake
__________________
The "rest of the story" is buried in the details
Trainman Dave no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2007, 04:05 PM   #395
Trainman Dave
systems rule!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 499
Likes (Received): 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by FML View Post
Generally speaking, Japanese railway stations have much fewer platforms per users, compared with their counterparts in Europe. (Or, from Japanese POV, European stations have unnecessarily many platforms per users.)

Explanations I heard include:
1: European railway stations have evolved from the stations of extensive horse carriage networks, which had different platforms for departures and arrivals.
2: Many European termini are true "terminal" stations, where lines literally terminate, while Japanese large stations are often served by lines that do not terminate there (e.g. Yamanote, Keihin-Tohoku, Saikyo, subway thru services). It means European trains need more times to stay on platforms compared with those in Japan, thus the need for more platforms.
3: Many European trains are/were towed by locomotives, as opposed to Japanese trains that have been multiple units from 1950s. This can be another reason why European trains need more time at platforms.
4: Japanese asset price is expensive, so they possibly couldn't build as many platforms as they wanted.

I don't know which (or any) of these explanations are true, though.
All of the above
__________________
The "rest of the story" is buried in the details
Trainman Dave no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2007, 04:13 PM   #396
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,821
Likes (Received): 1823

C'mon, it's riddiculous. The number of platforms doesn't show how busy the terminal is.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2007, 05:26 PM   #397
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,759

I know that it is about the same in chatelet les halles station.

I only said that 14 platform for Shibuya seem me too low , but it is because
I never knew that Saikyo Line and shonan Shinjuku line have the same platform.
__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2007, 06:25 PM   #398
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,952
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by FML View Post
Generally speaking, Japanese railway stations have much fewer platforms per users, compared with their counterparts in Europe. (Or, from Japanese POV, European stations have unnecessarily many platforms per users.)

Explanations I heard include:
1: European railway stations have evolved from the stations of extensive horse carriage networks, which had different platforms for departures and arrivals.
2: Many European termini are true "terminal" stations, where lines literally terminate, while Japanese large stations are often served by lines that do not terminate there (e.g. Yamanote, Keihin-Tohoku, Saikyo, subway thru services). It means European trains need more times to stay on platforms compared with those in Japan, thus the need for more platforms.
3: Many European trains are/were towed by locomotives, as opposed to Japanese trains that have been multiple units from 1950s. This can be another reason why European trains need more time at platforms.
4: Japanese asset price is expensive, so they possibly couldn't build as many platforms as they wanted.

I don't know which (or any) of these explanations are true, though.
To be honest, I would think point 2 is the main reason. We have plenty of through termini here in Europe and they tend to have a lot less platforms that the "end of line" termini.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2007, 06:51 PM   #399
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,759

Takadanobaba, Oomiya, Kichijoji, Akabane, Tabata, Nippori, Kawasaki, Musashikosugi, Meguro, Funabashi, others are big terminals.

Nippori 12 platform. we can agree but is it a main disembarking stations ?

Oomiya : 24 platforms, it is in Saitama.
Akabane : 8 platforms
Takadanobaba : 7 platforms
Kichijoji : 6 platforms
Kawasaki : 6 platforms it is in Kawasaki
Musashi kosugi : 6 platforms, it is in Kawasaki
Funabashi : 6 platforms
Meguro : 4 platforms
Tabata : 4 platforms
__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2007, 07:45 PM   #400
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,759

Nipporri has less than 200,000 passenger.
Ebisu has 6 platforms and it is not a railway terminal
Nishi Nippori has 6 platform and it is not a railway terminal
Nakano station 8 platform and it is not a railway terminal
Ginza is a subway station (If we agree that we can agree Chatelet les Halles in Paris this station has more than 750,000 passengers per day and a lot more in workday )
etc...

All those stations are not a railway terminal.
__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium