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Old June 14th, 2007, 08:52 PM   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Paris is bigger than any german city thats corect, that said it would be nice to see a listing of the Rhein-Rhurs (which is bigger than Paris by a margin) train stations here aswell.
Don't forget that central Paris, which covers only 87 km² and contains all the Paris rail terminals, has a night-time population of 2.1 million and a day-time population of 3.0 million resulting from an outflow of 300,000 people to the suburbs and an inflow of 1,200,000 people from the suburbs.

There's no 87 km² of land in the Rhein-Ruhr metro area (or in the whole of German, for that matter) which has as many residents and commuter flows as large as those in central Paris (1.5 million commuter flows, not even counting student and unemployed people flows, and also not counting flows from suburbs to suburbs with transfer in central Paris). Central Hamburg (Hamburg Mitte), for instance, covers 107 km² and has only 238,257 residents.
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Old June 14th, 2007, 09:45 PM   #442
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Thanks Brisavoine, you explain very well, why the passenger traffic of Paris is much higher in workdays than the weekends.
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Old June 14th, 2007, 10:02 PM   #443
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What is the definition of "platform" here again? Platform in sense of a track which is accessible by public? If yes, then the 16 platforms for Hamburg Hauptbahnhof are not correct.

14 tracks
13 of them accessible by travellers = 13 platforms
+ 6 tracks used by the 3 metro lines = 6 platforms
= 19 platforms
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Old June 15th, 2007, 10:51 AM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Don't forget that central Paris, which covers only 87 km² and contains all the Paris rail terminals, has a night-time population of 2.1 million and a day-time population of 3.0 million resulting from an outflow of 300,000 people to the suburbs and an inflow of 1,200,000 people from the suburbs.

There's no 87 km² of land in the Rhein-Ruhr metro area (or in the whole of German, for that matter) which has as many residents and commuter flows as large as those in central Paris (1.5 million commuter flows, not even counting student and unemployed people flows, and also not counting flows from suburbs to suburbs with transfer in central Paris). Central Hamburg (Hamburg Mitte), for instance, covers 107 km² and has only 238,257 residents.

Central Paris covers 105,40 km²according to Wiki.
Germany isnt a centralized country like France therefore Paris is surely much denser than any german city no doubt about that.
However, Germanys population is fairly bigger and the cities are bigger aswell except for Paris.
Talking about the Rhur: Its simply a gigantic sprawl consisting of many cities.Therefore the density in the Rhein-Rhur area is only half as big as in Hamburg for example.
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Old June 15th, 2007, 11:32 AM   #445
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105,40 km² include the two big parks (Bois de Boulogne and Bois de Vincennes wich are outside the peripherique)
87 km² is the city without the bois de boulogne and bois de Vincenne.
http://mapage.noos.fr/marla2/paris_border.jpg
http://mapage.noos.fr/marla2/paris_border_3.jpg
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Old June 15th, 2007, 04:15 PM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku View Post
Nope, in Paris, London,Tokyo and New York City... stations metro platforms are include.
See the first pages of this thread.
Mea Culpa ... I seem to have misunderstood some of the earlier discussion here.

Here is a corrected version of what I posted last night (in my time zone).

It includes:
  • revised totals for Antwerp & Part Dieu, Lyon (could someone translate that into English for me, it sounds very Godly!)
  • Weisbaden & Darmstadt data provided by Rohne (posting # 447)
  • 17 Japanese regional terminals provided by Unsing (posting # 448)
  • Sants Barcelona
  • the start of an effort to get these things into order alphabetically (by station name) as well as by platform no.

I may have missed out some recent objections regarding platform totals for some other German terminii.

The big ones:



The smaller ones:



And the 10-platform crowd ...



I've overwritten the files I posted last night, since there seemed no point in keeping them, so the comments relating to them will now seem somewhat obscure.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 12:20 AM   #447
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Brussels midi has 22 trainplatforms + 4 undergroundplatforms.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 12:30 AM   #448
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Rome Termini central station has 29 platforms.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_Termini_station


Largest Stations:

30 platforms or more (12)

52: Grand Central (New York)
48: Nord (Paris)
39: Munich Hauptbahnhof
38: Saint Lazare (Paris)
36: Est (Paris)
36: Montparnasse (Paris)
36: Waterloo (London)
33: Shinjuku (Tokyo)
33: Osaka/Umeda (Osaka)
32: Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof
30: Tokyo Station (Tokyo)
30: Union Station (Chicago

25-29 Platforms (12 Stations)

29: Austerlitz (Paris)
29: Penn Station (New York)
29: Leningradskiy / Yaroslavskiy and Kalanchevskaya (Moscow)
29: Porta Romana (Milan)
29: Termini (Rome)
27: Atocha (Madrid)
27: Karlsruhe Hauptbahnhof
26: Kings Cross/St.Pancras
26: Lyon (Paris)
26: Leipzig Hauptbahnhof
26: Ikebukuro (Tokyo)
26: Zürich Hauptbahnhof
25: Sydney Central
25: Ueno (Tokyo)

20-25 Platforms (14 Stations):

24: Chamartín (Madrid)
24: Stazione Centrale (Milan)
24: Euston (London)
24: Tennoji (Osaka)
24: Kyoto
23: Howrah (Calcutta)
23: Victoria (London)
22: Liverpool Street (London)
22: Omiya (Saitama)
22: Bruxelles-Midi
21: Shinagawa (Tokyo)
20: Porta Garibaldi (Milan)
20: Paddington (London)

15-19 Platforms (26 Stations)

19: London Bridge (London)
19: Stuttgart Hauptbahnhof
19: Helsinki Central
19: Oslo Central
19: Perrache (Lyon)
18: Retiro (Buenos Aires)
18: Basel SBB & Basel SNCF
18: Saint Charles (Marseilles)
17: Yokohama
17: Shin-Osaka (Osaka)
17: Kazanskiy (Moscow)
17: Leeds City (UK)
16: Charing Cross/Embankment (UK)
16: Constitución (Buenos Aires)
16: Atlantic Terminal (New York)
16: Glasgow Central
16: Bern Central
16: Sendai
16: Sealdah (Calcutta)
16: Flandres (Lille)
16: Hamburg Hauptbahnhof
16: Dresden Hauptbahnhof
15: Stratford (London)
15: Kurskiy (Moscow)
15: Southern Cross Station (Melbourne)
15: Rotterdam Centraal

10-14 Platforms (40 Stations)

14: Estacio de França (Barcelona, Spain)
14: Utrecht Centraal
14: Piccadilly station (Manchester)
14: Shibuya (Tokyo)
14: Shimbashi (Tokyo)
14: Kita-senju (Tokyo)
14: Chiba
14: Odawara
14: Luzern (terminal)
14: Berlin Lehrter Hauptbahnhof
14: Barcelona Sants (Spain)
14: 30th Street Station (Philadelphia, PA)
13: Greco-Bicocca (Milan)
13: Flinders Street Station (Melbourne)
13: Amsterdam Centraal
12: Santa Justa (Seville, Spain)
12: Kievskiy (Moscow)
12: Den Haag Centraal
12: New Street (Birmingham UK)
12: Newcastle (UK)
12: Kanayama (Nagoya)
12: Ofuna (Yokohama)
12: Altona (Hamburg)
12: Sants (Barcelona, Spain)
12: Bruxelles-Nord
12: Reading (UK)
12: Part Dieu (Lyon)
11: Porta Genova (Milan)
11: Paveletskiy (Moscow)
11: Belarusskiy (Moscow)
11: Berlin Ostbahnhof (East-Station)
11: Nürnberg Hauptbahnhof
10: Cadorna F.N.M. (Milan)
10: Berlin Nordkreuz/Gesundbrunnen
10: Olten (Switerland)
10: Iidabashi (Tokyo)
10: Moorgate (London)
10: Roma St (Brisbane)
10: Köln Hauptbahnhof
10: Once (Buenos Aires)
10: Principe Pío (Madrid)


City Totals for Main Terminii


213: Paris (France)
202: London (UK)
190: Tokyo (Japan)
97: New York (USA)
97: Milan (Italy)
95: Moscow (Russia)
74: Osaka (Japan)
61: Madrid (Spain)
44: Buenos Aires (Argentina)
43: Berlin (Germany)
43: Nagoya (Japan)
39: Calcutta (Kolkutta) (India)
39: Munich (Germany)
32: Frankfurt (Germany)
31: Lyon (France)
30: Chicago (USA)
29: Yokohama (Japan)
28: Barcelona (Spain)
28: Hamburg (Germany)
28: Melbourne (Australia)
26: Brussels (Belgium)
27: Karlsruhe (Germany)
26: Leipzig (Germany)
26: Zürich (Switzerland)
25: Sydney (Australia)
19: Helsinki (Finland)
19: Stuttgart (Germany)
19: Oslo (Norway)
18: Basel (Switzerland)
18: Marseilles (France)
17: Leeds (UK)
16: Glasgow (UK)
16: Bern (Switzerland)
16: Lille (France)
16: Dresden (Germany)
15: Rotterdam (Netherlands)
14: Manchester (UK)
14: Luzern (Switzerland)
14: Utrecht (Netherlands)
14: Chiba (Japan)
14: Odawara (Japan)
13: Amsterdam (Netherlands)
12: Seville (Spain)
12: Newcastle (UK)
12: Birmingham (UK)
12: Den Haag (The Hague) (Netherlands)
12: Nagoya (Japan)
12: Yokohama (Japan)
12: Reading (UK)
11: Nürnberg (Nurenberg)
10: Brisbane (Australia)
10: Olten (Switzerland)
10: Köln (Cologne) (Germany)
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Old June 17th, 2007, 07:18 AM   #449
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u forgot Kiev North Rail Terminal (Ukriane) serves about 5 million a year and has 16 platforms
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Old June 17th, 2007, 11:00 AM   #450
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My sister-in-law, who lived in Chiba for fifteen years (until about 5 years ago, but also last year) says quite adamantly that there are not 14 platforms at Chiba station, but 10.

She explained to me what the 10 platforms were for, but her English isn't perfect, so I'm not sure I fully understood.

Perhaps someone closer to Chiba can help me out.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 11:13 AM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
It has connected with a monorail station.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%...91%89%E9%A7%85
Does it come in english ?
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Old June 17th, 2007, 12:08 PM   #452
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Actual number is 16. 14 doesn't count Keisei line.
10 is for JR only.

JR


Chiba Urban Monorail


Keisei
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Old June 17th, 2007, 12:23 PM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The number of exact platforms.

Largest Stations:

348: Greater Tokyo
36: Shinjuku +Seibu-Shinjuku 3(Tokyo)
30: Tokyo Station (Tokyo)
29: Ueno 25 + Keisei-Ueno 4 (Tokyo)
26: Ikebukuro (Tokyo)
24: Omiya (Saitama, Saitama)
21: Shinagawa (Tokyo)
18:Yurakuchou6 + Hibiya6 + Ginza6 (Tokyo)
17: Yokohama (Yokahama, Kanagawa)
14: Shibuya (Tokyo)
14: Shimbashi (Tokyo)
14: Kita-senju (Tokyo)
14: Chiba (Chiba, Chiba)
14: Odawara (Odawara, Kanagawa)
13: Kawasaki 6 + Keikyu-Kawasaki 7 (Kawaaki, Kanagawa)
12:Nishi-Funabashi(Funabashi, Chiba)http://www.jreast.co.jp/estation/stations/1171.html
12: Ofuna (Kamakura, Kanagawa)
10: Iidabashi (Tokyo)
10: Akihabara (Tokyo)
10: Otemachi (Tokyo)
10: Okachimachi4+Naka-okatimachi2+Uenohirokouzi2+Ueno-Okachimachi2(Tokyo)

City Totals for Main Terminii and not for the commuter rail station

348: Greater Tokyo
*242: Tokyo (Japan)
*24: Saitama (Japan)
*17: Yokohama (Japan)
*14:Chiba (Japan)
*14: Odawara (Japan)
*13: Kawasaki (Japan)
* etc.
213: Paris (France)
202: London (UK)

Prefecture Totals for Main Terminii

348: Greater Tokyo
242:Tokyo (Jpan)
56: Kanagawa (Japan)
24: Saitama (Japan)
26: Chiba (Japan)
This threat is not about city main terminii and not commuter rail station

Sorry but Yurakuchou is not a railway terminal, I had already said that no intercities train stop at Yurakuchou because Tokyo is at 1 km
Otemashi is only a subway station (No intercities train)
No Intercities trains stop at Akihabara. (Tsukuba express is not an intercity train, it is a commuter train. )
No intercities trains stop at Iidabashi

*242: Tokyo (Japan) : 242 - (18 + 10 + 10 + 10) = 194.

And don't forget that not only Tokyo has suburbs. Should we include suburbs of Paris, London, New York.. ?
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Old June 17th, 2007, 12:58 PM   #454
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Thanks. Platforms 1 -10 above look basically like what my sister in law was telling me.

I have a number of problems with the data that is being supplied from Tokyo (and some other cities).

If you can include monorails in platform counts, then presumably you can include light rail (aka tramways) as well. Sydney central should certainly be able to claim an additional platform on that basis, since it has a light-rail stop right under its front verandah. Flinders St. Melbourne could claim six extra platforms if it claimed the tram stops just outside ... Justme made a statement on the issue some time back, to the effect that passing through the barriers meant the end of the station (I hope I got that right).

Another issue: just above in this thread,
[email protected] has made a claim for Yurakucho Station: just below Tokyo on the map below:



The claim includes 6 platforms at Ginza & 6 at Hibiya. These are subway or metro platforms, not shown on this map. The subway map shows the Hibiya but not the Ginza stations linked to Yurakucho!

Moreover, if stations like this were included, I can't see any reason why you wouldn't include Clapham Junction in London, Chatelet de Halles in Paris, Jamaica in NYC (although I'm not sure how many platforms it has) and even Richmond here in Melbourne (which has 10 platforms, is a busy transfer station, but is certainly not a terminal ... not ever!)

From the map above, I also wonder about Shinagawa, Ikebukoro, Akhihabara and others. Do trains actually terminate there? The map above doesn't suggest this. I realize that some Japanese may be disappointed because they have countless busy stations in Greater Tokyo, but the purpose of this thread wasn't to count stations: it was to assess the size of "terminals". At the very beginning (remember, I started the thread!) the idea was to exclude stations like Richmond here in Melbourne, or Clapham Junction London, because (I) didn't want things counted twice or umpteen times over ...

An additional problem ... Omiya, Chiba, Yokohama ... are they part of Tokyo or aren't they? There's a separate forum here for "Subways and Urban Transport", but this thread was put in the "Railways" Forums because it was meant to be about long-distance railway ... it was actually a response to a guy in Chicago, who was convinced that Chicago was the railway capital of the world. Freight-wise, maybe.

Omiya, Chiba, Yokohama (and Odawara) are arguably part of Greater Tokyo's Urban transport network. However, it's obvious various cities organize their rail systems differently.

I note that minato ku has posted on the same subject while I've been preparing this posting. Never the less, I'll post.

As I said earlier, I never expected stations like Richmond Melbourne (10 platforms, my home city) to be included. This evening I totalled 485 platforms overall for Melbourne (not including the tramway/light railway network, which has over 1800 stops, some with platforms!) I'm sure Tokyo has many more platforms than that (and the same goes for Paris, London etc.) but that isn't what this thread was about.

Last edited by Yardmaster; June 17th, 2007 at 03:15 PM.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 01:36 PM   #455
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No Intercities trains stop at Shinagawa, The Tokaido line and the Shinkansen Tokaido, The same for Tokyo and Ueno.
The Chuo main line wich are intercity stop at Shinjuku.
At Yokohama stop the Tokaido line wich are intercity service.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 02:06 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku View Post
No Intercities trains stop at Shinagawa, The Tokaido line and the Shinkansen Tokaido, The same for Tokyo and Ueno.
The Chuo main line wich are intercity stop at Shinjuku.
At Yokohama stop the Tokaido line wich are intercity service.
I'm confused, particularly by your first word "No". If there was a full stop after it (.) it would mean one thing, if not another.

Do you mean:
  1. Intercity trains stop at Shinagawa
  2. So do Tokaido line and the Shinkansen Tokaido line trains
  3. Intercity, Tokaido, & Shinkasen trains stop at Tokyo
  4. Intercity, Tokaido, & Shinkasen trains also stop at Ueno
  5. Chuo main line intercity trains stop at Shinjuku
  6. Tokaido Intercity trains stop at Yokohoma

Or do you mean that intercity trains don't stop at Shinagawa? Most trains would have to stop at Tokyo ... do they stop at Ueno too?

Doesn't exactly address my concerns ... let's take my local station, Footscray. Regional (read "Intercity") trains stop there all of the time (most of them anyway), but they're still just passing through from Southern Cross to various regional cities ...
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Old June 17th, 2007, 02:07 PM   #457
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Sorry I forgotten the signe ","
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Old June 17th, 2007, 05:30 PM   #458
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Do Tokaido and Shinkasen Tokaido trains stop at Tokyo or go through or to Ueno?

Last edited by Yardmaster; June 17th, 2007 at 05:54 PM.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 05:40 PM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoago View Post
213: Paris (France)
202: London (UK)
190: Tokyo (Japan)
97: New York (USA)
97: Milan (Italy)
95: Moscow (Russia)
74: Osaka (Japan)
61: Madrid (Spain)
58: Chicago (USA)
44: Buenos Aires (Argentina)
43: Berlin (Germany)
43: Nagoya (Japan)
39: Calcutta (Kolkutta) (India)
39: Munich (Germany)
32: Frankfurt (Germany)
31: Lyon (France)
29: Yokohama (Japan)
28: Barcelona (Spain)
28: Hamburg (Germany)
28: Melbourne (Australia)
26: Brussels (Belgium)
27: Karlsruhe (Germany)
26: Leipzig (Germany)
26: Zürich (Switzerland)
25: Sydney (Australia)
19: Helsinki (Finland)
19: Stuttgart (Germany)
19: Oslo (Norway)
18: Basel (Switzerland)
18: Marseilles (France)
17: Leeds (UK)
16: Glasgow (UK)
16: Bern (Switzerland)
16: Lille (France)
16: Dresden (Germany)
15: Rotterdam (Netherlands)
14: Manchester (UK)
14: Luzern (Switzerland)
14: Utrecht (Netherlands)
14: Chiba (Japan)
14: Odawara (Japan)
13: Amsterdam (Netherlands)
12: Seville (Spain)
12: Newcastle (UK)
12: Birmingham (UK)
12: Den Haag (The Hague) (Netherlands)
12: Nagoya (Japan)
12: Yokohama (Japan)
12: Reading (UK)
11: Nürnberg (Nurenberg)
10: Brisbane (Australia)
10: Olten (Switzerland)
10: Köln (Cologne) (Germany)
Manchester has a second mainline station at Manchester Victoria with an extra 6 platforms, so on your list is should have 20 in total. Glasgow also has Glasgow Queen Street, taking it's mainline platform total to 25. Birmingham also has Snow Hill with an extra 3 platforms, taking the total to 15.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 05:45 PM   #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwell View Post
Manchester has a second mainline station at Manchester Victoria with an extra 6 platforms, so on your list is should have 20 in total. Glasgow also has Glasgow Queen Street, taking it's mainline platform total to 25. Birmingham also has Snow Hill with an extra 3 platforms, taking the total to 15.
The bad news is: anything under 10 platforms doesn't count (see previous post).

The good news is: they're mainline platforms, so I'm listening.

Last edited by Yardmaster; June 17th, 2007 at 05:52 PM.
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