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Old May 20th, 2013, 12:08 AM   #2801
iheartcities
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I feel that CX's always been more interested in adding frequencies to its popular destinations (hence increasing flexibility for travellers) rather than using larger aircrafts.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 01:52 AM   #2802
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartcities View Post
I feel that CX's always been more interested in adding frequencies to its popular destinations (hence increasing flexibility for travellers) rather than using larger aircrafts.
Well, CX already uses all wide-bodied aircraft for its fleet. It is pretty much competing against other carriers, like Singapore Airlines, Malaysia Airlines, and several Middle Eastern airlines, that provide similar services and frequencies (with sometimes even larger fleets to start with). The great thing about CX, though, is that HKG in itself is a rich, diverse city with an outstanding airport that works as a hub and focus city for many carriers, and an abundance of opportunities await for passengers heading to the small territory (Special Administrative Region) of China.

Cathay Pacific uses the following:

• A330-300 (the largest operator of such type, at 37 planes) — select aircraft to be transferred to sister company Dragonair
• A340-300 (with 11 planes)
• B747-400 (with 15 planes, being replaced with B777-300ER)
• B777-200 (with 5 planes, regional cabin)
• B777-300 (with 12 planes, regional cabin)
• B777-300ER (with 31 planes, 19 more on order)

The replacement aircraft would be the following:

• B777-300ER — from B747-400
• A350-900 — from A340-300 and B777-200 (22 orders)
• A350-1000 — from B747-400 and B777-300 (26 orders)

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Old May 20th, 2013, 03:07 AM   #2803
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If Cathay Pacific does order the A380-800, it would be to the following destinations:

London
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Vancouver, BC
Toronto (with some payload restrictions)
New York (with some payload restrictions)
maybe Sydney, but that is already covered well with the A330-300 and 777-300ER

Los Angels, San Francisco, Vancouver and Toronto would certainly get full loads on the A380-800, given the very large number of Hong Kong expatriates living in these four cities.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 05:43 AM   #2804
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AHK 747-400 arriving into SIN
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Old May 20th, 2013, 05:54 AM   #2805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacto7654 View Post
If Cathay Pacific does order the A380-800, it would be to the following destinations:

London
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Vancouver, BC
Toronto (with some payload restrictions)
New York (with some payload restrictions)
maybe Sydney, but that is already covered well with the A330-300 and 777-300ER

Los Angels, San Francisco, Vancouver and Toronto would certainly get full loads on the A380-800, given the very large number of Hong Kong expatriates living in these four cities.
Those would be great destinations for the A380 should CX choose to operate it. I'm a bit concerned, though, about how the aircraft will be used during its long turnaround time in HKG after accomplishing a long-haul flight... For example, the B747s are routinely used to regional destinations with high passenger loads as well after accomplishing long-haul flights (especially from SFO and LHR), for example: Taipei, Manila, Tokyo, Singapore, and Bangkok. Plus, the A380 to be used on the HKG—YVR—JFK flight would be a splendid idea, especially that route was previously operated with B744.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 06:38 AM   #2806
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Just because there are a lot of expats doesn't mean it would be a good destination for the A380. I'm from Vancouver myself, and as much as I would love YVR to be a destination with an A380, it wouldn't happen. The A380 relies on premium business and YVR nor YYZ (which by the way only has 3-cabin 777s with only J, Y+, and Y no F).

Even with adequate premium demand, it isn't that simple. An A380 introduction will flood the market with a surge of supply that will dramatically decrease the price. BAs A380 deployment to LAX and HKG are perfect examples of such. Even LHR, despite being CXs busiest route, might not be the best destination for CX to launch a VLA given that it recently added a fifth frequency thanks to the NZ partnership and slot switch. This proves CX rather adds additional frequencies as opposed to VLAs just as iheartcities mentioned, and arguably additional frequencies are more benefitial to passengers than VLAs.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 06:45 AM   #2807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
Just because there are a lot of expats doesn't mean it would be a good destination for the A380. I'm from Vancouver myself, and as much as I would love YVR to be a destination with an A380, it wouldn't happen. The A380 relies on premium business and YVR nor YYZ (which by the way only has 3-cabin 777s with only J, Y+, and Y no F).

Even with adequate premium demand, it isn't that simple. An A380 introduction will flood the market with a surge of supply that will dramatically decrease the price. BAs A380 deployment to LAX and HKG are perfect examples of such. Even LHR, despite being CXs busiest route, might not be the best destination for CX to launch a VLA given that it recently added a fifth frequency thanks to the NZ partnership and slot switch. This proves CX rather adds additional frequencies as opposed to VLAs just as iheartcities mentioned, and arguably additional frequencies are more benefitial to passengers than VLAs.
I could add that with additional frequencies, not only the passengers benefit from it, but also companies that sometimes need to swap schedules to better meet client demands. I could really imagine CX having more dual-engine planes and better schedules (if not more) than getting an A380 because they're more after connecting passengers to start with, similar to EK... and their in-flight products are comparable sometimes to EK or SQ. I would say that more flights on wide-bodies mean more opportunities for passengers to fly between HKG and their intended destinations...
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Old May 20th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #2808
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It's certainly not more environmentally friendly to fly 5 daily London than 3 daily A380s.

I agree however, that Cathay Pacific doesn't need the A380 at the moment. With dedicated freighter fleets being eschewed towards a general trend towards underbelly cargo, the A380, which lacks decent cargo capabilities, is not a right fit. This point could've been completely ignored had Hong Kong said "no" to a 3rd runway, but they are building a third runway and this will support Cathay's strategy of frequency over capacity for the time being.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 11:43 AM   #2809
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Since when is the aviation industry all about being green to begin with?

We don't see any major international carrier adopt biofuels for their entire fleet yet.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 01:05 PM   #2810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Maybe some of the last 747s will be replaced by the A350-1000, right now they are already being replaced by the 777-300ER that still has 19 outstanding orders.

The A350s both -900 and -1000 will replace the 777-200s and 777-300s (both non ER) and the A340-300s, later on they will also start to replace the oldest A330-300s and 777-300ERs.

Since both the 777s and the A350 are smaller then the 747s in a 4-class lay-out there's still a possibility of an order for the 747-8I or more likely the A380. But this has been discussed on the internet for several years now, and it hasn't turned into an actual order yet. Cathay is always saying that they are still deliberating an order.
The fact that Cathay has been deliberating on the issue for years shows they just can't see the business case for them.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 01:09 PM   #2811
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I don't get the green argument. An A380 is more efficient than even the A350. So if it has decent loads it'd be burning less fuel per passenger (which is the definition of efficiency). I am not too sure about the 747-8i though.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #2812
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I still think Cathay Pacific is looking at the A380-800--at least for routes to North America.

Right now, the airline flies twice a day to San Francisco--and it's really hard to get a ticket flying to Hong Kong on this airline using a 777-300ER and 747-400. They could easily replace one of the frequencies with an A380-800 and still fill the plane full. (Why such big loads to San Francisco? The San Francisco Bay Area, plus the Sacramento Metropolitan Area two hours away--have gigantic communities of Hong Kong expatriates--and that includes me! ) The same applies for Los Angeles, where Cathay Pacific has three flights a day to Hong Kong.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 05:56 PM   #2813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacto7654 View Post
I still think Cathay Pacific is looking at the A380-800--at least for routes to North America.

Right now, the airline flies twice a day to San Francisco--and it's really hard to get a ticket flying to Hong Kong on this airline using a 777-300ER and 747-400. They could easily replace one of the frequencies with an A380-800 and still fill the plane full. (Why such big loads to San Francisco? The San Francisco Bay Area, plus the Sacramento Metropolitan Area two hours away--have gigantic communities of Hong Kong expatriates--and that includes me! ) The same applies for Los Angeles, where Cathay Pacific has three flights a day to Hong Kong.
You usually need at least 6 or 7 planes of a type to make sense financially. So Cathay would need enough routes (probably 4 or 5) to be able to buy A380s.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 06:33 PM   #2814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacto7654 View Post
I still think Cathay Pacific is looking at the A380-800--at least for routes to North America.

Right now, the airline flies twice a day to San Francisco--and it's really hard to get a ticket flying to Hong Kong on this airline using a 777-300ER and 747-400. They could easily replace one of the frequencies with an A380-800 and still fill the plane full. (Why such big loads to San Francisco? The San Francisco Bay Area, plus the Sacramento Metropolitan Area two hours away--have gigantic communities of Hong Kong expatriates--and that includes me! ) The same applies for Los Angeles, where Cathay Pacific has three flights a day to Hong Kong.
The fundamentals of a route is not about filling a plane up, but to make money. This is called yield management. A full plane does not mean the most profitable plane.

Increasing frequencies is attractive to business travelers, who are far more profitable than filling up cheap seats at the back of the plane.

London is a great example why an A380 may work but is not used. Instead, Cathay is putting up a 5th daily flight. Great news for the premium passengers!
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Old May 20th, 2013, 06:50 PM   #2815
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The multiple flights a day on it's busiest routes also means a lot more underbelly cargo capacity between those cities, which is also very profitable for Cathay.

If a single 777 can already carry more cargo then a single A380 this difference is becoming extremely huge on the London route that know goes 5x daily compared to the 2x or 3x a A380 would be doing.


But having said that, Cathay is still deliberating a VLA order. So it's not completely of the boards yet.
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Old May 21st, 2013, 01:25 AM   #2816
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I think AAs experience flying to India is the perfect example of full flights not being profitable. That route received a yearly average of 85+% load factor, which is incredibly high, yet AA cease operating the direct flight from ORD due to the lack of profitability.

There has been discussion of CX further increasing the number of North American destinations: EWR, a market not necessarily to "relieve" the New York market, but to tap into the potential of New Jersey; and DFW to tap into AAs connectivity to relieve its West Coast market flights as well and potential to connect to AAs long-haul South American network.

It's funny how the environment is brought up and for sure there is an emerging focus on the environment in the aviation industry. Short-haul travel, yes, and already we see High Speed Rail networks competing with airlines. But with short haul aviation becoming increasingly expensive in Europe and increasingly competitive to operate between legacy and low-cost carriers, there may be a future where high speed rail networks and aviation aren't necessarily competing modes of transport, but rather, complementary. But unlike many other transportation modes, there is no realistic alternative to long-haul travel.

The A380 is ultimately an aircraft with limited markets. With the exception of EK, few airlines have made the aircraft work on "non-megahubs." Moreover, CX has a lot of its business in cargo and as discussed earlier, the A380 doesn't have the capacity compared to a much smaller 777 or even Boeing's VLA alternative, the 747-8. To be honest, even if CX purchases a VLA, I would think the 747-8 be the aircraft of choice for a few reasons:
  1. Cargo capacity benefits;
  2. While passenger capacity does not compare to the A380, the smaller capacity on the 747-8 potentially allow for more markets, such as those that may need an increase in supply but without sufficient demand for another flight or those airports that are considered slot-constricted;
  3. The smaller capacity also wouldn't flood the market with a significant increase in supply;
  4. Not sure how valid this last point is, but CA, which as 30-percent of stake in CX, ordered the 747.

Out of curiosity, why would some of you support CX ordering the A380 just from a passenger point-of-view? I've flown on them, and I still don't understand the real hype behind them. I mean it feels impressive to be in such a large aircraft and it's amazingly quiet for its size, but other than that I don't see the benefit of flying an A380.
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Old May 21st, 2013, 04:28 AM   #2817
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Exactly. The A380's seats are not different from those on other airplanes - I don't get more room. Airlines can choose which seats to fit their planes with anyway. The A380 doesn't come with pre-set seats.
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Old May 21st, 2013, 08:45 AM   #2818
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If Cathay still has 18 more 777-300ER's yet to be delivered, one thing they could do in lieu of buying the A380-800 is increase flight frequencies to intercontinental destinations. That means going to three flights per day between Hong Kong and San Francisco and four flights per day between Hong Kong and Los Angeles, using the 777-300ER initially and substituting in the A350XWB-1000 on an "as needed" basis once Airbus starts delivering this A350XWB variant.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 05:04 AM   #2819
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Sunday, 26 May, 2013
South China Morning Post
Anger after fire alarm causes Cathay flight to be aborted
Fire alarm forces flight to be aborted and passenger says the incident confirms his fears about ancient Boeing 777s used on regional routes

A Cathay Pacific plane with more than 200 passengers on board was forced to make an emergency landing in Bangkok after a fire alarm in its cargo hold went off minutes after it took off for Hong Kong.

Fire engines and emergency vehicles raced out to the Boeing 777-300, which was ordered to taxi to a remote part of the airfield after making a steep turn to touch back down in Bangkok just 29 minutes after it left.

Shaken passengers were kept on board for 90 minutes after Wednesday morning's drama as firemen checked the plane before they were taken back to the airport and made to wait for hours before being put on alternative flights.

A regular flier sitting in the front on flight CX700, which had 206 passengers, recounted the drama yesterday and said the incident confirmed his concerns about the older Boeing 777 planes used on regional routes.

The passenger, who asked not to be named, said: "We were only a few minutes into the flight when the pilot came onto the PA and said: 'We have a problem. We are going to have to return to Bangkok'.

"But then, in a somewhat terse voice, he said, 'All attendants to emergency posts'. As soon as he said that, everyone tensed up and I thought: 'This isn't good'.

"We proceeded to do a very sharp turn and then fly in a fairly direct line back to Bangkok airport. The landing was absolutely fine, but we landed surrounded by fire engines and ambulances.

"The captain said: 'We are safely on the ground. We have had an indication of a fire on board so we have been taken to a remote part of the airport and the fire services are doing an inspection of the plane'.

"There were no flames pouring out of the plane and it's entirely possible that it was something as simple as a defective light on a panel. As a passenger it's impossible to know. What I find frustrating is that since this happened, we have had no explanation, no e-mail, no phone call and no apology - nothing."

The passenger - a businessman who holds a Cathay Pacific Diamond Card reserved for the most frequent fliers - said: "I've told my secretary not to book me on the 777s. I get her to look at what planes they have on each flight and I normally won't fly if it's a 777.

"I've been worried about this for some time. I have felt these things are beyond serviceable. They are 20-plus years old and the airline has said in the past it would phase them out."

He added: "I have nothing but praise for the pilot and the crew. The pilot came across as very calm. He did the world's biggest U-turn but he did it with great aplomb.

"It's not the people that are the problem. It's the mechanical side of it. It's the fact that Cathay is maintaining a fleet that is inconsistent. You fly a brand new [Airbus] 330 and then a 20-year-old 777 on the same route one week after the next. That can't be maintainable."

In a written statement, a Cathay spokeswoman said: "Cathay Pacific confirms that flight CX700 from Bangkok to Hong Kong made a precautionary return to Bangkok after a cargo compartment fire warning light came on.

"The aircraft landed safely and responding agencies found no signs of smoke or fire in the compartment. Passengers have been accommodated on other Cathay Pacific flights or those of other airlines.

"Cathay Pacific's flight CX700 was a continuation of its flight from Colombo to Bangkok. The airline apologises for the inconvenience caused to passengers on these flights."

The spokeswoman said that the aircraft was returned to service on Friday and the cause of the incident was still being investigated.

"Safety is our top priority at all times and all our aircraft are safe," she said.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 08:27 PM   #2820
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Source : http://pic.feeyo.com/posts/585/5856850.html



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