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Old December 31st, 2007, 10:07 PM   #461
TheGlobalizer
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Cities in the SE US are growing fast, both in terms of population and of business activity. This one isn't outside the realm of reasonability, though it's a bold move.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 10:23 PM   #462
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Why the FAA sets building height AND flight restrictions....

The Empire State Building, in NYC, (BELOW) after a B-25 bomber crashed into It on July 28, 1945.....

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Old January 1st, 2008, 04:57 AM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGlobalizer View Post
Cities in the SE US are growing fast, both in terms of population and of business activity. This one isn't outside the realm of reasonability, though it's a bold move.
However, a large portion of this population AND business growth is occuring in fringe counties. Williamson County now competes with downtown Nashville

And Tony has only had 100 reservations for this building thus far and this is after a considerable amount time for marketing. I think this shows two things...

1. Tony has no clue how to market something like this (especially in a market such as Nashville). It should be obvious that something of this magnitued should be marketed HEAVILY outside the core market for any chance of success. After the free car deals have obviously failed he just now seems to be interested in focusing on other markets.

2. Nashville is too small of a market for a building such as this. All of the hometown boostering aside (hell, I grew up one hour North of Nashville), a project of this magnitude is simply not realistic in most metros of this size. This is especially true for cities that experienced the majority of their population growth after the automobile became commonplace. These cities evolved in a suburban nature and the mindset of that lifestyle prevails.

I would go as far as to say that if this project were transplanted to a more urban city of the same size such as New Orleans (even pre Katrina), or Baltimore then there is a good chance the sales would be higher. Thats by no means a knock against Nashville. It's just that the definition of 'urban' living is different in those areas and they have advantages due to their geographical locations.

That being said, I still have hope that this gets built. I think Nashville is making many positive additions to it's downtown area. This would be a major accomplishment if it is able to become a reality.
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Old January 1st, 2008, 05:26 AM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardpooch View Post
1. Tony has no clue how to market something like this (especially in a market such as Nashville). It should be obvious that something of this magnitued should be marketed HEAVILY outside the core market for any chance of success. After the free car deals have obviously failed he just now seems to be interested in focusing on other markets..
Agreed. He appears to not "get it" because cheap gimmicks only cheapen the project and now he has squandered away so much time he may not have enough left to regroup and attract the sales before his contracts are void. We'll see.

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2. Nashville is too small of a market for a building such as this. All of the hometown boostering aside (hell, I grew up one hour North of Nashville), a project of this magnitude is simply not realistic in most metros of this size. This is especially true for cities that experienced the majority of their population growth after the automobile became commonplace. These cities evolved in a suburban nature and the mindset of that lifestyle prevails.
That isn't even remotely true. Two 500 foot towers or four 250 footers wouldn't be raising any eyebrows. We're talking 400 condos and a hotel. Only the top 40 or so are the million dollar units and this isn't out of the ordinary for a city of 1.5 million people with LOTs of wealthy people that has barely scratched surface on DT condos. Height adds to the cost but Nashville without any doubt has plenty of people able to afford those top floors and more than enough for the bottom three fourths. Two things and two things alone are hurting this project...the current building market in general and Mr. Giarratanna's bad choice in marketing with the silly marketing being his biggest problem (hot air balloons and free cars ).


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I would go as far as to say that if this project were transplanted to a more urban city of the same size such as New Orleans (even pre Katrina), or Baltimore then there is a good chance the sales would be higher. Thats by no means a knock against Nashville. It's just that the definition of 'urban' living is different in those areas and they have advantages due to their geographical locations.
Boston? possibly. New Orleans? No way. Even pre-Katrina the population of Metro New Orleans in 2000 census was the same as Metro Nashville at 1.3 million. And N.O. city population was only 480,000 which is less than Nashville. And even now the city itself doesn't appear to have near the growth or outlook that Nashville has, at least not yet. I'm sure the New Orleans people may disagree and that is fine. And New Orleans may grow again and that is great. But while Boston is a much larger city than Nashville, New Orleans just isnt and hasn't been for years.

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That being said, I still have hope that this gets built. I think Nashville is making many positive additions to it's downtown area. This would be a major accomplishment if it is able to become a reality.
Agreed. I still have hope too but I fear Tony has went with ridiculous marketing and wasted too much time and resources. He may not have time to fire whichever keystone cop marketing group he is using and hire one with even elementary school skills.

I'd give it 25/75 against right now.
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Old January 1st, 2008, 08:01 PM   #465
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Quote:
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....Nashville without any doubt has plenty of people able to afford those top floors and more than enough for the bottom three fourths.....
Nashville might have the numbers that can afford Siggy but do the people that currently live there actually WANT to spend the extra money for a residence there?

So far the numbers show that they don't.

I think part of that stems from the fact that people currently living in Nashville who might be considering a move downtown also weigh the negatives of such a move. Less square footage, less privacy, no back yard etc...Nashville has been one of those places where the well to do didn't necessarily live downtown so that type of lifestlye remains somewhat foreign. I think when people evaluate everything a lot of them just say 'well, considering it's expensive enough for the square footage, I'll just settle for the 20th floor at Viridian'.

Unfortunately, not everyone is a skyscraper geek like ourselves..


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....Boston? possibly. New Orleans? No way......
I wouldn't be so sure of that....

A lot of your reasoning is based on the fact that Nashville is growing faster than other areas, therefore it has more of a demand for a project such as this.

From the local market yes (and we've seen how well that's gone so far), but from abroad I think it has little importance.

Chicago's population isn't booming right now. In fact the city is LOSING population. Yet the Spire is expected to become the second (or I suppose third) home for a TON of wealthy Europeans.

Most of the target audience for this project could care a less that LA and Vegas are growing faster at the moment.

Which is why I said if something like this could be pulled off in Nashville, it could be done in places such as New Orleans or Baltimore.

Baltimore???

Lets see...great urban fabric, close to the Atlantic coast, Washington DC, Philadelphia...sounds like a great second home to me.

I will be curious to see what Tony does to alter his current marketing scheme to lure in outside buyers. I'm just afraid it's going to be a tough sell. Country music alone is not going to sell this tower out. And I'm afraid that many people know nothing about Nashville outside of country music.

If there were a beach nearby, this process would be so much easier...
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Old January 1st, 2008, 10:06 PM   #466
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wow........pics are very impressive
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 01:09 AM   #467
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If Nashville doesn't get this building they should consider building it in Chicago, maybe putting it south of the Sears tower to help bring the skyline south.
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 01:31 AM   #468
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^ how about letting a different city shine instead? Um...Baltimore? Kansas city? Portland? Tulsa? etc. But i think it's best in Nashville!
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 01:36 AM   #469
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Quote:
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If Nashville doesn't get this building they should consider building it in Chicago, maybe putting it south of the Sears tower to help bring the skyline south.

This has been stated over and over. Read the thread!
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 04:27 AM   #470
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I think Tony is a victim of what is going on in the wider world, the housing bubble bursting and credit crunch. Almost all projects that were not already out of the ground around the whole country have stalled. If this was 2005, he'd have sold them all already.
People cannot even be assured that they can sell their homes in the burbs in a timely manner to move downtown. Everyone is paralyzed with fear of a prolonged downward real estate price spiral.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 06:07 AM   #471
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I think Tony is a victim of what is going on in the wider world, the housing bubble bursting and credit crunch. Almost all projects that were not already out of the ground around the whole country have stalled. If this was 2005, he'd have sold them all already.
People cannot even be assured that they can sell their homes in the burbs in a timely manner to move downtown. Everyone is paralyzed with fear of a prolonged downward real estate price spiral.
" CORRECT! " No one, including Nashville, wants to have a glut of empty and foreclosing properties on Their hands.... not, even, for the vainglory of " tallest " status. Signature Tower fans may not be aware of Miami's, luxury condo, nightmare (BELOW). If not, check out the, following, ABC News & Nightline links....

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Old January 3rd, 2008, 05:14 PM   #472
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I agree with you whole heartedly DrT. The market along with the poor choices in sales strategies and my thought that he may have wasted too much time and the clock is ticking on his contracts.

The silence from the Giarratanna camp is deafening (not that he owes anyone anything at all). It could be he is still making solid progress in sales and just chooses to release information once the groundbreaking is set for sure.

There are several positive factors still in the mix:

1. He does have at least 1/4 pre-sales with a good many being on top floors.
2. The Nashville market is barely tapped.
3. He does still have several months to make enough sales.
4. The market is expected to improve this year by some economists I've seen (not so sure it will be in time).
5. The market he is aiming at (upper class professionals) really aren't affected as much by the real estate bust as much as the upper middle class as they are likely going to use this as a second home without the need to sell their suburuban residence.

But I'm reaching and I still say 25/75 that it will make it.

Last edited by Plasticman; January 3rd, 2008 at 05:21 PM.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 05:57 PM   #473
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Stunning tower. I love the crown. Also think it would look great in London
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 11:04 PM   #474
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Believe me, we're craving a signature tower in Baltimore. Construction has barely slowed here -- though many future towers have been changed from condos to apartments. That might be a route to take with this building.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 01:08 AM   #475
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There are now considerably more than 100 sales contracts for Signature and sales are picking up. Word is that a "good news" announcement will be forthcoming on Monday.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 01:27 AM   #476
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I was foreign exchange student in Franklin, TN just a little south of Nashville and I love this city. I am so happy for such a great project in Nashville, it will look so nice with the skyline.
I want to invite you guys to visit the thread about my city Pereira, Colombia it is a city about the size of Nashville http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=532921 , please leave any messages if u want it woulńd be glad to read them, its ok to leave them in english.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 01:27 AM   #477
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Perhaps the most dramatic change has been the growth of the urban-residential market, which is bringing more retail. The number of residents living in the core of Downtown Nashville, which anchors a metropolitan region with a population of about 1.5 million, has doubled to about 3,200 in the past 10 years, according to Thomas Turner, president of the Nashville Downtown Partnership. Still, a slowdown in the residential market has delayed the start of construction on the 70-story Signature Tower, a condominium and hotel tower billed as the soon-to-be tallest building in the Southeast. Tony Giarratana, president of Nashville-based Giarratana Development, says he has presold 102 of the tower's 400 condo units and expects to start construction next summer, about one year later than planned.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1198...googlenews_wsj
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Old January 12th, 2008, 02:15 AM   #478
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I think Nashville's outlook is a lot better than most, I think this tower can survive.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 02:39 AM   #479
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I think Nashville's outlook is a lot better than most, I think this tower can survive.
Me too! I'm really hoping we'll be getting a groundbreaking announcement on Monday
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Old January 13th, 2008, 02:31 AM   #480
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Me too! I'm really hoping we'll be getting a groundbreaking announcement on Monday
I hope so too. I've been kind of down on it lately but am still trying to be optimistic.
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