daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 1st, 2009, 09:23 PM   #661
CrazyAboutCities
Registered User
 
CrazyAboutCities's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 8,549
Likes (Received): 240

That is disappointing but understandable. Be glad it still have chances to get built.
CrazyAboutCities no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 2nd, 2009, 04:01 AM   #662
spectre000
Moderator
 
spectre000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 7,906
Likes (Received): 5171

50 stories and 807 feet tall is nothing to sneeze at. This is still a great tower for Nashville. Let's hope construction can start sometime later this year.
spectre000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2009, 03:41 AM   #663
Hankster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chattanooga, TN / Nashville, TN
Posts: 285
Likes (Received): 12

In case you didn't get to see the entire Nashville Business Journal article, some of the highlights are:

Tower looks very similar to old design, just 20 fewer stories. Spire basically looks the same, but may be a bit shorter to look balanced with the shorter tower
807 Ft - 50 Stories
Hotel portion expanded from 198 units to 304 units
Office portion - 172,000 Sq Ft
Underground parking reduced from 630 spaces to 360 spaces
Condo portion - only 50 units all in the upper portion of the tower. The top five floors will be full floor penthouses.
Total cost $250 Million down from $350 Million for the earlier design.
Construction costs have dropped by an estimated 20%.
Financing is hoped to be obtained in 8 to 12 months.
Overseas investors are being sought.

I would estimate this tower is about 24 floors hotel, 10 floors office, and about 16 floors of condos. If Tony has secured an office tenant and can retain enough of the 105 or so people that signed contracts for the old design, I think there is a real chance he can make a go of this. We'll all have to see what happens. I have always said, that you can't just write Tony Giarratana off. He is very persistant and motivated.
__________________
Nashville - The Next Great Southern City

Last edited by Hankster; May 4th, 2009 at 03:47 AM.
Hankster no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2009, 08:51 PM   #664
AmericanSkyscraper22
Registered User
 
AmericanSkyscraper22's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 353
Likes (Received): 9

reduced height but still a great addition for Nashville
AmericanSkyscraper22 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2009, 07:48 PM   #665
Manitopiaaa
Illuminati Leader
 
Manitopiaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Alexandria, Nova, The Crown Commonwealth of Virginia (see sig)
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 10289

Stunning. Nashville is once again showcasing why Memphis is the Tennessee of yesterday. Congratz!
Manitopiaaa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2009, 05:47 AM   #666
Jim856796
Registered User
 
Jim856796's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Citizen of the World
Posts: 8,943
Likes (Received): 843

Even with the reduced height, this would make a great addition to the Nashville skyline. Are there even any renderings of the tower at its 800-ft height?
__________________
I honestly think all development projects must be sustainable and futureproof.

You support the good projects... and oppose the bad.
Jim856796 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 03:05 AM   #667
Hankster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chattanooga, TN / Nashville, TN
Posts: 285
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim856796 View Post
Even with the reduced height, this would make a great addition to the Nashville skyline. Are there even any renderings of the tower at its 800-ft height?
I saw a rendering in the Nashville Business Journal on May 1st. Unfortunately, that rendering was only published in the print edition, and not in the web page edition. It looks very much like the original design, just scaled back. They lopped of 20 stories. The spire looks the same, but may be a bit shorter to remain in scale with the rest of the tower. The set back near the top was eliminated. At 807 feet and 50 stories, it will still dominate the Nashville skyline, if buit. Here's the link and article.

http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nas...04/story1.html

Signature Tower drops size, scope
Developer cuts floors, condos in hopes of reviving stalled project
Nashville Business Journal - by Jenny Burns Staff Writer

Tony Giarratana is a man who thinks big. But to get his supersized skycraper off of the ground, he has to shrink his plans.

The Signature Tower is getting a recession makeover — dropping 20 stories from its original plan of 70 floors, removing all balconies and replacing hundreds of smaller condos with just a few larger, luxurious ones.

At 50 stories, the revised Signature will not be the tallest building in the Southeast as Giarratana had originally envisioned, likely falling to third or fourth behind towers in Atlanta and Charlotte, developers estimate.

It still will be the tallest building in Nashville at about 807 feet, surpassing the AT&T building’s 632-foot stature.

“When Signature is built, Nashville is no longer the same city,” says Tony Giarratana, president of Giarratana Development, who’s still determined to build his high-profile project. Giarratana has built several downtown high-rises including the Viridian condos and Cumberland Apartments on Church Street.

Signature Tower, planned for the corner of Fifth Avenue and Church Street downtown, has seen several incarnations. It was originally announced as a 55-story office, hotel and condo project in early 2005, then changed to just residential with retail on the ground floor.

A hotel was added in 2006 pushing it to 65 stories, and the tower later grew to 70 stories because of the condo boom. Giarratana got the city permit to start the project in 2007, but it stalled when it couldn’t get enough condo pre-sales.

As the condominium market took a nosedive and credit markets froze, it was evident to Giarratana that Signature would have to change too. The revised plans look like this:

• The bottom levels include retail, restaurants, meeting rooms, a ballroom, a bank and pool decks.

• Above that will be 172,000 square feet of top-tier office space.

• Up next is the hotel, which has grown from 198 rooms to 304 rooms.

• And the number of condos planned for the top floors of the structure have shrunk from 400 to 50 units.

• And underground, the parking garage has been cut from 630 spaces down to 360. Fewer condos means fewer parking spaces, and the move will save about $2 million, Giarratana says.

Giarratana’s team has searched for ways to cut the building’s price tag without sacrificing quality because the cost of capital has gone up tremendously. Giarratana says the amount of debt he can finance has dropped about 25 percent.

Giarratana says he would have had to use a New York contractor to build the 70-story Signature, but now he can hire a Southeast contractor for the shorter version. And the estimated 20 percent drop in construction costs helps too.

However, Giarratana says he isn’t certain yet how the changes will impact the tower’s original price tag of $250 million because of recent drops in materials and labor costs.

And the cuts don’t mean that financing is waiting in the wings. Giarratana says it’s unlikely that traditional construction financing will be available this year. That’s why his financial advisor, Chicago-based Jones Lang LaSalle, is looking for off-shore investors.

“Our advisors indicate that they are cautiously optimistic that financing can be obtained within the next eight to 12 months,” he says.

Office broker Rob Gage with Colliers Turley Martin Tucker says Giarratana is an accomplished developer, but questions the reality of getting financing for a skyscraper in today’s tough economic times. Gage estimates that any lender would require significant condo pre-sales and pre-leasing of the office space.

The downtown office market is at a 17.3 percent vacancy rate, not including the 240,000 square feet of space opening soon in the under-construction Pinnacle at Symphony Place.

No office tenants have been signed for Signature. Because the downtown vacancy rate is expected to reach 20 percent by year’s end, Giarratana says he will need to pre-lease 50 percent to 75 percent of the office space before starting construction.

“This is an unprecedented opportunity for a company to anchor a 50-story tower in downtown Nashville,” he says.

The tower’s 350 condos were cut because of an oversupply and limited demand. In Nashville’s 30 newest condo projects, about 1,420 condos are available but sales have been slow.

Office developer Barry Smith, president Eakin Partners, says Signature’s new make-up definitely is reflective of current demand for the condo market. The building wouldn’t open for three to four years, and in that time, Smith says the existing inventory for both condos and offices should be absorbed.

The redesigned condo units include five full-floor homes at the top, six two-story homes with oval staircases, four townhouse units and 35 flats. Instead of balconies, the condos have solariums, all-glass rooms where the windows open for fresh air. Many have exercise rooms and studies, and five units have outdoor terraces.

The units have not been priced, but the market for condo units above $1 million is limited in Nashville. In the past four years, 17 condo units have sold in new projects above that price point.

“I don’t have a crystal ball, but I don’t think the next four years is going to look like the last four years,” condo developer Ray Hensler says.

As for the expanded hotel, Giarratana says he’s not worried about the struggling hotel market, where occupancy and average daily rates have dropped during the recession. The city’s proposed convention center, he contends, will increase demand for high-end rooms downtown.

[email protected] | 615-846-4276
__________________
Nashville - The Next Great Southern City
Hankster no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 09:10 PM   #668
Johnny Ryall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,779
Likes (Received): 22

20% vacancy rate downtown, Pinnacle @ Symphony Place nearing completion, no office tenants signed up and now another 1000+ room hotel tower for a new convention center proposed. I'm not so sure about this one securing financing.
Johnny Ryall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 01:13 AM   #669
Johnny Ryall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,779
Likes (Received): 22

Not to say that it couldn't happen, but it seems as time goes on smaller projects are eating up any chance for it. Some of the hotel brands that are interested in the proposed convention center tower are the same ones who were named for this. They're trying to enact a tax funding tool to finance that big project even though Nashville ranks around 130th in nation for conventions. They better not use any state money for that ugly thing (convention center) after Nashville took a disproportionate amount of the federal recovery stimulus funds. I think some are still trying to coax investors into overbuilding even after the bubble has burst! Nashville's urban core really isn't growing much, it's the far outer lying southern suburbs like Columbia & Spring Hill (which are technically included with the combined statistical area). Nashville has only had 2 major highrises go up downtown in the past 25 years (BellSouth & Pinnacle). Ol' Tony built a nice condo building downtown, but that guy has already gone bankrupt at least once and this project is starting to sound like a hoax of saving face. Don't get me wrong, Nashville is ok, but it is no southern boom city like Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Dallas-Ft.Worth, Houston, Austin or Miami. Not even close.
Johnny Ryall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 01:49 AM   #670
WonderlandPark
nomadist
 
WonderlandPark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,957
Likes (Received): 478

17.3 vacancy rate, ouch. Pinnacle is not even on the market, yet, right?
__________________
Images of travel, cities and architecture on pixelmap
WonderlandPark no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 01:57 AM   #671
Hankster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chattanooga, TN / Nashville, TN
Posts: 285
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ryall View Post
Not to say that it couldn't happen, but it seems as time goes on smaller projects are eating up any chance for it. Some of the hotel brands that are interested in the proposed convention center tower are the same ones who were named for this. They're trying to enact a tax funding tool to finance that big project even though Nashville ranks around 130th in nation for conventions. They better not use any state money for that ugly thing (convention center) after Nashville took a disproportionate amount of the federal recovery stimulus funds. I think some are still trying to coax investors into overbuilding even after the bubble has burst! Nashville's urban core really isn't growing much, it's the far outer lying southern suburbs like Columbia & Spring Hill (which are technically included with the combined statistical area). Nashville has only had 2 major highrises go up downtown in the past 25 years (BellSouth & Pinnacle). Ol' Tony built a nice condo building downtown, but that guy has already gone bankrupt at least once and this project is starting to sound like a hoax of saving face. Don't get me wrong, Nashville is ok, but it is no southern boom city like Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Dallas-Ft.Worth, Houston, Austin or Miami. Not even close.
Seldom, have I seem a post filled with so many inaccuracies. The survey in the link below taken in 2005 shows that Nashville ranks 18th in the nation in business travelers and a whopping 8th in the nation convention / training / seminar travelers, so I wonder where you are getting this 130th in the nation for conventions stuff. As for other highrises in built in downtown during the past 25 years, you may want to add both the the 31 story Viridian, the 23 Story Cumberland Apartments and the 20 story Encore Towers, all of which were developed by the same Tony Giarratana that you seems to think is not up to the task. In addition to those, you might want to add the 30 story Fifth Third Center, the 35 story Rennaisance Center, the 27 Story Nashville City Center, and the 23 Story One Nashville Place all of which were built in downtown Nashville during the past 25 years. I suggest you do a little more research on Nashville.

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2...tsTracked.html

Also, the Signature Tower Hotel tenant has already been chosen. It will be a Hotel Palomar. They are NOT being considered for the Convention Center Hotel.
__________________
Nashville - The Next Great Southern City

Last edited by Hankster; July 1st, 2009 at 02:12 AM.
Hankster no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 03:54 AM   #672
Johnny Ryall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,779
Likes (Received): 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankster View Post
Seldom, have I seem a post filled with so many inaccuracies. The survey in the link below taken in 2005 shows that Nashville ranks 18th in the nation in business travelers and a whopping 8th in the nation convention / training / seminar travelers, so I wonder where you are getting this 130th in the nation for conventions stuff. As for other highrises in built in downtown during the past 25 years, you may want to add both the the 31 story Viridian, the 23 Story Cumberland Apartments and the 20 story Encore Towers, all of which were developed by the same Tony Giarratana that you seems to think is not up to the task. In addition to those, you might want to add the 30 story Fifth Third Center, the 35 story Rennaisance Center, the 27 Story Nashville City Center, and the 23 Story One Nashville Place all of which were built in downtown Nashville during the past 25 years. I suggest you do a little more research on Nashville.

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2...tsTracked.html

Also, the Signature Tower Hotel tenant has already been chosen. It will be a Hotel Palomar. They are NOT being considered for the Convention Center Hotel.
I got the 130th number from the Music City Center website. Yeah, It's not clear. I think it speaks of either size or usage of the current center as 126th. Also, I'm aware of the buildings you spoke of, but I mentioned "major highrises", as in skyscrapers, relative to the conversation of the Signature Tower. I am aware of the 20 story condos. Buildings like that go up every day in cities and on beaches. The 5th/3rd center is my favorite TN highrise and it was completed in 1986. The others you mentioned were all 20-25 years so, sue me. My point still stands.
Johnny Ryall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 05:12 AM   #673
Johnny Ryall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,779
Likes (Received): 22

...My point, which is that the downtown Nashville market IS over built and other emerging factors are undermining the attempts to finance the Signature Tower, as is clearly seen over the years. When a supertall goes up (800'+ now) it's USUALLY because of soaring demand and investment flows to it, not just because someone wants it there. As I said "it's not that it can't happen", but this thing has been a longshot since its conception.
Johnny Ryall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 05:34 AM   #674
Johnny Ryall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,779
Likes (Received): 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderlandPark View Post
17.3 vacancy rate, ouch. Pinnacle is not even on the market, yet, right?
The posted article said upwards of 20% before the Pinnacle opens it doors (240,000 sq.ft) and that's just office space. Condos and hotel rooms are already in large excess inventory.
Johnny Ryall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 05:39 AM   #675
Hey_Hey
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 99
Likes (Received): 21

But what will the vacancy rate be when the project is completed? That's the question. We know what has happened to dozens of highrises across the country that were proposed when vacancies were low. We're in the middle of the worst recession since at least the late 70s/early 80s, so vacancies nationally are high. Assuming that the policy changes in Washington don't kill the entire economy, Nashville is poised to rank among the leading cities in the country in terms of growth. Realistically, Signature Tower isn't going to be completed for at least 4-5 years at this point, and the vacancy rates may be dramatically different. Because of the time lag for these projects to come to completion developers have to project what the future holds, not what is currently found in a market.
Hey_Hey no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 06:06 AM   #676
Insighter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nashville (Moved from Dallas in Nov. 05)
Posts: 1,435
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ryall View Post
20% vacancy rate downtown, Pinnacle @ Symphony Place nearing completion, no office tenants signed up and now another 1000+ room hotel tower for a new convention center proposed. I'm not so sure about this one securing financing.
While I remain doubtful about Signature ever rising, I assure you that the convention center and hotel will have funding, as they have dedicated taxes allocated expressly for their construction.

As far as vacancy downtown, the 20% figure is for all classes of office space. For class A, it's 11%, not as bad as in most cities. A proposed medical trade center should take up a lot of that space... and then some. I understand that they are looking at all available space in either the Pinnacle, ATT, or Regions towers.
Insighter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 06:22 AM   #677
Insighter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nashville (Moved from Dallas in Nov. 05)
Posts: 1,435
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ryall View Post
Not to say that it couldn't happen, but it seems as time goes on smaller projects are eating up any chance for it. Some of the hotel brands that are interested in the proposed convention center tower are the same ones who were named for this. They're trying to enact a tax funding tool to finance that big project even though Nashville ranks around 130th in nation for conventions. They better not use any state money for that ugly thing (convention center) after Nashville took a disproportionate amount of the federal recovery stimulus funds. I think some are still trying to coax investors into overbuilding even after the bubble has burst! Nashville's urban core really isn't growing much, it's the far outer lying southern suburbs like Columbia & Spring Hill (which are technically included with the combined statistical area). Nashville has only had 2 major highrises go up downtown in the past 25 years (BellSouth & Pinnacle). Ol' Tony built a nice condo building downtown, but that guy has already gone bankrupt at least once and this project is starting to sound like a hoax of saving face. Don't get me wrong, Nashville is ok, but it is no southern boom city like Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Dallas-Ft.Worth, Houston, Austin or Miami. Not even close.
LOL... you've never been here, have you. I cannot add a lot to Hankster's post, but I relish in telling you that Nashville has virtually doubled in size in the past twenty-five years from 850,000 to 1.65 million, and the core has increased by 230,000 in the past 30 years (from 411,000 to 640,000). Gosh, that doesn't sound like a boomtown, naaaahhh, not at all -- if you're clueless about Nashville. Oh, and the US Census Bureau projects -- and they always fall short in their projections for Nashville -- that the metro will have about 3 million people in twenty years. Just look at the Tennessean article this week that the Nashville economy (and population) is among the top in growth in the nation despite the poor economy. It has long been among the ten most diverse economies in the nation (the most diverse in the South), and in 2007 grew faster (by 40,000) than in any year prior (data for later years were not available). In the last twenty-five years, Nashville has held its own with Raleigh, Charlotte and Austin (another city that holds a special place in my heart).

Your post sounds more like civic jealousy, and if that's the case, it's no wonder to me why you did not mention where you live in your profile.
Insighter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 06:28 AM   #678
Dale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 9,180
Likes (Received): 5505

His profile reads:

"Johnny Ryall has not made any friends yet."
Dale no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 06:34 AM   #679
Insighter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nashville (Moved from Dallas in Nov. 05)
Posts: 1,435
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ryall View Post
I got the 130th number from the Music City Center website. Yeah, It's not clear. I think it speaks of either size or usage of the current center as 126th. Also, I'm aware of the buildings you spoke of, but I mentioned "major highrises", as in skyscrapers, relative to the conversation of the Signature Tower. I am aware of the 20 story condos. Buildings like that go up every day in cities and on beaches. The 5th/3rd center is my favorite TN highrise and it was completed in 1986. The others you mentioned were all 20-25 years so, sue me. My point still stands.
That 130th number is just the current convention center (alone) and does not include the much greater number of conventions that are held at the Opryland Hotel and Convention Center. Opryland puts Nashville in the top fifteen convention cities... easily. With the MCC, Nashville will rocket up to the top ten in conventions... and three highly reputable travel consultants bear out the fact that Nashville will draw the projected number of conventions. Its unique blend of culture, size, beauty, and central location are already a draw that far exceed many of the top convention destinations. Currently, the city is limited on the upside by the economy (which we assume will not stay bad) and the size of the current convention facilities which are severely outdated.
Insighter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 07:39 AM   #680
Johnny Ryall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,779
Likes (Received): 22

That just takes me back to my original statement. The urban core of Nashville is not leading the nation in terms of growth, not even Davidson county. Some small towns in Nashville's extreme southern metro counties are currently growing at a high rate, but I haven't seen them or Nashville top any national list. Then again that's not something I've researched in depth. So, i'd like to see some numbers on that. Even so that just creates commercial submarkets with cushy office parks that compete directly with downtown. Look at a city like Charlotte. It is a prime example of what a boom city is. There's so much construction of new highrises & skyscrapers, it's surreal. Nashville has nothing like that on the drawing board. The city itself had a pretty good spurt back in the 1970's & early 80's with it's downtown, but that has drastically slowed. Even if the Signature was built, cities like Charlotte, Raleigh & Austin, which are of relative size, are leaving Nashville in their wake. Don't even mention the south's big 4. Nashville does well for itself, but there's a lot of age-old hype people just aren't buying anymore. And yes I've been in and around Nashville many, many times. Also, I used to live in Chicago. Don't believe everything you read in the Tennessean. It crunches its own numbers, hypes and will have you believing Nashville is the capital of the world.

Last edited by Johnny Ryall; July 1st, 2009 at 09:15 AM.
Johnny Ryall no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
nashville

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu