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Old August 30th, 2009, 06:42 PM   #1841
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Old August 31st, 2009, 05:38 AM   #1842
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How can something be iconic when it isn't finished yet? If it's to be an icon of Tokyo, then it can only do that once it's completely finished and millions of people have visited it and know what it is. The World Trade Center was an icon of New York because of the towers' huge size, because they essentially created the skyline of New York that the whole world saw on postcards and in photographs for 30 years, and because millions upon millions of people from around the world had visited them.

Tokyo Sky Tree can't do that because it's still under construction. Wait 10 years, then see if it can be called iconic. Who knows, maybe no one will visit the tower and no one will ever associate it with Tokyo. Maybe the original Tokyo Tower will forever remain the symbol of Tokyo to the Japanese people and the world. Frankly, Ginza is more representative of Tokyo, at least to Americans, than any single building. That's what everyone saw in the 70s, 80s, and 90s when they saw photographs of Tokyo. The only way Sky Tree could ever become truly iconic is if the only thing we ever see of Tokyo in the next 20 years is Sky Tree. Photographs, postcards, videos, movies - then people will begin to see Tokyo as this tower.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:07 AM   #1843
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I completely disagree! It will an "Official Icon" on day 1 when it opens to the public.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krattle View Post
How can something be iconic when it isn't finished yet? If it's to be an icon of Tokyo, then it can only do that once it's completely finished and millions of people have visited it and know what it is. The World Trade Center was an icon of New York because of the towers' huge size, because they essentially created the skyline of New York that the whole world saw on postcards and in photographs for 30 years, and because millions upon millions of people from around the world had visited them.

Tokyo Sky Tree can't do that because it's still under construction. Wait 10 years, then see if it can be called iconic. Who knows, maybe no one will visit the tower and no one will ever associate it with Tokyo. Maybe the original Tokyo Tower will forever remain the symbol of Tokyo to the Japanese people and the world. Frankly, Ginza is more representative of Tokyo, at least to Americans, than any single building. That's what everyone saw in the 70s, 80s, and 90s when they saw photographs of Tokyo. The only way Sky Tree could ever become truly iconic is if the only thing we ever see of Tokyo in the next 20 years is Sky Tree. Photographs, postcards, videos, movies - then people will begin to see Tokyo as this tower.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:33 AM   #1844
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They've already started with the process of making it iconic. And as construction goes on it will get even more attention as it starts to really get an impact on Tokyo's skyline.

The original Tokyo Tower will always be the icon of Tokyo's pre war economical emergence. The Tokyo Sky Tree can become an icon of the new 21st century Japan now the new government is taking over.

Some pictures from this weekend.



Both towers in 1 shot.


tokyo-sky-tree.seesaa.net/
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:40 AM   #1845
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WOW ! 125 meters high is such a great progress ! Thx for the pics!
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Old August 31st, 2009, 01:21 PM   #1846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krattle View Post
How can something be iconic when it isn't finished yet? If it's to be an icon of Tokyo, then it can only do that once it's completely finished and millions of people have visited it and know what it is. The World Trade Center was an icon of New York because of the towers' huge size, because they essentially created the skyline of New York that the whole world saw on postcards and in photographs for 30 years, and because millions upon millions of people from around the world had visited them.

Tokyo Sky Tree can't do that because it's still under construction. Wait 10 years, then see if it can be called iconic. Who knows, maybe no one will visit the tower and no one will ever associate it with Tokyo. Maybe the original Tokyo Tower will forever remain the symbol of Tokyo to the Japanese people and the world. Frankly, Ginza is more representative of Tokyo, at least to Americans, than any single building. That's what everyone saw in the 70s, 80s, and 90s when they saw photographs of Tokyo. The only way Sky Tree could ever become truly iconic is if the only thing we ever see of Tokyo in the next 20 years is Sky Tree. Photographs, postcards, videos, movies - then people will begin to see Tokyo as this tower.
IMO Tokyo doesn't have a real icon yet. Like Eiffeltower in Paris, Big Ben in Londen etc. You say the original Tokyo Tower will stay the symbol of Tokio, but before this tower I didn't even ever heard of it. Now I know about it cuz I did some googling, but I don't think it's a real big icon, at least not for people not from Japan
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Old August 31st, 2009, 01:27 PM   #1847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Construction View Post
IMO Tokyo doesn't have a real icon yet. Like Eiffeltower in Paris, Big Ben in Londen etc. You say the original Tokyo Tower will stay the symbol of Tokio, but before this tower I didn't even ever heard of it. Now I know about it cuz I did some googling, but I don't think it's a real big icon, at least not for people not from Japan
I agree.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 02:34 PM   #1848
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Mount Fuji might be the only real Tokyo icon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
The original Tokyo Tower will always be the icon of Tokyo's pre war economical emergence
What exactly are you talking about? Tokyo Tower was finished more than a decade after the war.


Btw, now I know why I'm feeling it won't be iconic - it has no Japanese spirit. While the Tokyo Tower has.
Godzilla fought on it. That says it all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Mort_ View Post
Tokyo Tower which is twice smaller and It looks like a combination of radio mast and Eiffel Tower.
And that's what makes it unique.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 04:33 PM   #1849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Mount Fuji might be the only real Tokyo icon.
Mount Fuji can't be a Tokyo icon because it is in Shizuoka perfecture. For me Mt. Fuhi is the real icon of Japan and Tokyo Tower the icon of Tokyo.

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Old August 31st, 2009, 05:39 PM   #1850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
What exactly are you talking about? Tokyo Tower was finished more than a decade after the war.
You should read your history books again, before making stupid remarks.

The Japanese economical miracle started in 1950s with the Korean War and the end of the American occupation in 1952. It started a period of economic growth that lasted until 1991, the famous Japanese economic bubble. The Tokyo Tower was build in 1957-1958, that's still in the beginning of Japans postwar success.

"The tower is often regarded as a symbol of Japan's postwar economic growth and development, but now a taller tower is under construction in Sumida Ward."
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0081230i1.html

"In the postwar boom of the 1950s, Japan was looking for a monument to symbolize its ascendancy as a global economic powerhouse"
http://metropolis.co.jp/biginjapan/biginjapaninc.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Btw, now I know why I'm feeling it won't be iconic - it has no Japanese spirit. While the Tokyo Tower has.
Godzilla fought on it. That says it all.


And that's what makes it unique.
Design wise it's the other way around, Tokyo Tower is just a copy of the Eiffel Tower and the Sky Tree has a more Japanese design.

"The Tokyo Sky Tree is designed to have graceful curves similar to samurai swords and traditional Japanese buildings so that it does not detract from the surrounding scenery.

...

The tower also has state-of-the-art seismic proofing including a central shaft (made of reinforced concrete) developed from five-tier pagodas that have withstood earthquakes for hundreds of years."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Sky_Tree

The whole point is that the Tokyo Tower is already an icon and the Sky Tree is new. And it takes time to really become an icon and at first it will only become an icon for the Japanese and not so much for the rest of the world. But saying already saying it won't be iconic is just way to early, especially when a non Japanese person says it.


New official height:

126m

http://www.tokyo-skytree.jp/
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Old August 31st, 2009, 06:33 PM   #1851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
The Japanese economical miracle started in 1950s with the Korean War and the end of the American occupation in 1952.
I know about the Japanese "Wirtschaftswunder", no need to teach me a lesson
We had the same (in the beginning even more powerful) development over here in the German BRD after WWII was lost in Europe.

But read again what you wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435
pre war economical emergence
You mean post war economical emergence.

You're putting it like that yourself:
Quote:
"In the postwar boom of the 1950s, Japan was looking for a monument to symbolize its ascendancy as a global economic powerhouse"
That's why I asked, not because I don't have a clue about Japanese history

Quote:
"The Tokyo Sky Tree is designed to have graceful curves similar to samurai swords and traditional Japanese buildings so that it does not detract from the surrounding scenery.


That's the usual BS architects/planners/etc. issue when trying to make a building look like there would be any regional identity to it. I don't see such.
They could build this anywhere else. The steel lattice formworks look sort of similar to the ones of Guangzhou Tower which obviously has a more striking design. That alone will make it hard for the Sky Tree to ever become a real icon.
Perhaps that isn't its purpose. But to me it looks like the developers would try it this way.

Quote:
it takes time to really become an icon
Not true at all costs. Take the Sydney Opera e.g., it was an icon since the very beginning, even during construction phase.

Or to give a current example: The Hamburg Elbphilharmonie already is a European icon, though it's not even halfway finished.

You have to put things in perspective.

Quote:
But saying already saying it won't be iconic is just way to early, especially when a non Japanese person says it.
It's just how I see this from a European perspective, comparing it to similar projects around the world. And "especially when a non Japanese person says it" you can bet the view is more balanced and neutral.

It's an interesting tower, but there are lots of interesting towers around the world.
And we're getting more and more of 'em.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 06:45 PM   #1852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikari View Post
Mount Fuji can't be a Tokyo icon because it is in Shizuoka perfecture



That's like saying Mt. Vesuvius can't be a Naples icon. Stupid.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:00 PM   #1853
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For me is not Stupid, if you ask someone "which is the symbol of Tokyo?" they will never answer you "Mt. Fuji", maybe they will say "Rainbow Bridge, Tokyo Tower, Skyscrapers of Shinjuku, etc..." but if you ask "Which is the symbol of Japan" they will sure answer "Mt. Fuji".

Distance Monte Vesusio - Napoli --> 9 km.
Distance Mt. Fuji - Tokyo --> 100 km.

is it the same? For me not.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:04 PM   #1854
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It's still pretty dominant, if not as much as in the given example. Anyway, I don't see much sense in discussing this with you.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:26 PM   #1855
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Godzilla is the one and only icon of Tokyo to the western world.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:40 PM   #1856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
It's still pretty dominant, if not as much as in the given example. Anyway, I don't see much sense in discussing this with you.
Mount Fuji is not even visible for most of the year.

And I shouldn't make these kind of forum posts at 06:33 AM anymore, I really thought I wrote post instead of pre.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:48 PM   #1857
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Well, let's say it's a symbol of the Tokyo metrop. area. While Tokyo Tower is a symbol for its center.


Anyway, what do you think about my other points?
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:57 PM   #1858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krattle View Post
This building's just a copy of the Eiffel Tower.
I cannot agree with such a dismissive comment. Yes, there are certain design elements that reference a few of the Eiffel Tower's architectural details ... but it is mostly different. Using your logic the Lincoln Memorial in Washington is just a copy of the Parthenon, Saint Patrick's Cathedral in New York is just a copy of Rouen Cathedral, the Canadian Parliament in Ottawa is just a copy of Westminster Abbey, and the Statue of Liberty is just a copy of the Colossus of Rhodes.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 08:23 PM   #1859
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Haha, don't worry Philly Bud, that comment was just a joke. I was so tired of all the idiots from a while back in the thread who just wouldn't stop saying how Sky Tree is just a copy of the Eiffel Tower. So I felt like posting the same nonsense again to see what kind of response I would get. I'm quite pleased that no one still thinks this tower is a copy of the Eiffel Tower.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 08:27 PM   #1860
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All I'm saying is, something can't be an icon of a city unless people think of that thing (be it a building or whatever) whenever they think of that city. Whenever you think of Paris, you think of the Eiffel Tower, or the Arc de Triomphe. So, the question is, will people think of Sky Tree when they think of Tokyo? Then it will be a true icon. It may not take a lot of time, who knows.
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