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Old May 11th, 2006, 12:00 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888
are there any other subway system in the world that has four track setup like nyc?
In effect London does, but what were once the 'fast' and 'slow' lines are now different branded lines.

Barons Court to Northfields is all 4-track, with the Piccadilly Line running in the middle (fast) and District on the outside (slow) between Barons Court and Acton Town, oddly the Piccadilly Line Heathrow Branch is 4-track between Acton Town and Northfields, the 'spare' tracks are usually just used as test tracks.

The situation is reversed between Finchley Road and Wembley park, with the stopping Jubilee Line in the middle and the non-stop Metropolitan Line outside.

Both sections still function like the NYC subway in that if there is a blockage on a line trains can be routed over the adjacent line. All of the signals are parallel with each other so the argument is the drivers don't need specific route training to work the adjacent track in emergencies.

The only line which has 4 tracks nominally of its own is the Metropolitan Line between Harrow and Watford, with fast and slow, but the Main Line Chiltern services share the fast tracks with the fast Metropolitan trains.

Also, between Campbell Road Junction (Bromley-By-Bow) and Upminster the District Line and Mainline C2C operate like a fast / slow system... The northern pair of tracks are the 'slow' District lines stopping all stations and the southern pair are 'fast' C2C lines stopping at West Ham, Barking and Upminster only. The slow tracks were originally Mainline property, they were not officially transferred to LT until 1970 although all physical connections between the two were removed in the 1950's.
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Old May 11th, 2006, 03:25 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
But bitxofo is not talking about Cercanias
RENFE is the name of the Spanish national rail company. It's the company operating Cercanias in Spain. What I had in mind was exactly what you've shown on your maps, which is the Cercanias network in Barcelona. Once again, the Cercanias in Barcelona can't be compared with the RER network, traffic is much lower and in the center all lines are operated on shared tracks. Each line don't have their dedicated tunnel.
Encore une fois, tu as lu trop vite mon message avant de repondre... c'est de bonne guerre
Franchement le reseau des FGC ressemble pas mal a "notre" RER, non !?

PS : je sais les Cercanias, c'est pas comme "notre" RER

Last edited by [email protected]; May 11th, 2006 at 04:12 PM.
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Old May 11th, 2006, 07:27 PM   #63
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Oui, c'est ça!

Tu me comprends très bien.

FGC is similar to RER.
Cercanías RENFE is similar to trains de banlieu SNCF.
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Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old May 11th, 2006, 08:51 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitxofo
Cercanías RENFE is similar to trains de banlieu SNCF.
Around Paris, the commuter lines are called"Transilien" .

It's true that if we take into account RER network we also have to take into account FGC network BUT these hybrid systems or "super-metro" are really specific, so

What is the rail gauge of the FGC trains ? 1.668m or 1.435m ?
And the Voltage ? 1.5kV DC, 25kv AC ?
Is it compatible with the RENFE network ?
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Old May 18th, 2006, 03:30 AM   #65
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Someone mentioned Philly's express service, but forgot to mention the fact that philly has skip-stops on teh Market-Frankford line as well.

Los Angeles now has express service on the Gold Line during rush hours.
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Old May 18th, 2006, 04:48 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Around Paris, the commuter lines are called"Transilien" .

It's true that if we take into account RER network we also have to take into account FGC network BUT these hybrid systems or "super-metro" are really specific, so

What is the rail gauge of the FGC trains ? 1.668m or 1.435m ?
And the Voltage ? 1.5kV DC, 25kv AC ?
Is it compatible with the RENFE network ?
Barcelona FGC gauge:
Some lines: 1.435mm.
Other lines: 1.000mm.

Barcelona RENFE gauge: 1.668mm.

Barcelona TMB gauge: 1.672mm.

They are NOT compatible!!
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Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old May 20th, 2006, 10:26 PM   #67
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Skip Stop Service on the Market Frankford Subway/ elevated:

A Trains stop at stations marked with "A" and all stops underground in center City (Downtown) between Frankford and 69th St.

B Trains stop at stations marked with "B" and all stops underground in Center City (Downtown) between Frankford and 69th St.

During non-peak hours, all trains stop at all stops




B Train at a Center City Station

http://www.transitalk.info/photos/tl...tranz_1064.jpg
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 08:43 AM   #68
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São Paulo has an express line, called 6E.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 08:03 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
Vancouver's Expo Line has express trains.
Vancouver has no express trains, the skytrain network is all double tracked and automated. If they would have a express service then they would have to reduce the frequency of the trains by alot to allow them to pass each other. Although if they had the insight to build a a third track at all stations then in theory they would not only be able to increase the frequency and capacity of the entire system by a substantial amount they would also be able to put in a good express service that would travel at the speed of the train ahead and pass it at the next stop where it could speed up and catch up with the next train and repeat the process. Then you could have a trip from Surrey to Vancouver take you 20min instead of 40min.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 06:24 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitxofo
FGC L6, L7 and L8 are NOT suburban lines, DonQui, They are full metro! Look at the map, please!!

Suburban lines of FGC are:
S1, S2, S3, S33, etc. (S meaning SUBURBAN).

FGC have got metro lines and suburban lines: BOTH.

This is my last word about this subject, it is not so difficult to understand! Or you better come to Barcelona, and I show you this system, guys.
Service of FGC:

Metro (Urban lines): L6 and L7. Old numeration: U6 and U7. But the L6 is so special: in rush hours run only between Sarrià and Reina Elisenda like a shuttle service. Between Sarrià and Barcelona only runs the suburban services: S1 (every 12'), S2 (every 12'), S5 to Rubí (every 12') and S55 (every 12'). All lines offer a train every 3 minutes.

The L8, in my opinion, is not metro: the L8 services runs every 15 minutes in work days and every 30 minutes in weekends. Also between Barcelona and Sant Boi, if yoy count every suburban services (S33, S4, S7, S8) you have a train every 7-10 minutes: S33 only runs in morning rush hour, S4 runs every hour, S7 runs every 30 minutes and S8 runs every hour. In weekens, line S4 doesn't run (you will use the R5 line trains) and the S8 line run every 30 minutes. The departures are:

http://www.fgc.net/horaris2004/horar...laborables.pdf

In workdays

00' Molí Nou (L8)
06' Igualada (R6-Semidirect train)
08' Olesa de Montserrat (S4)
15' Molí Nou (L8)
22' El Palau (S7)
30' Molí Nou (L8)
36' Manresa (R5-Semidirect train)
38' Martorell (S8)
45' Molí Nou (L8)
52' El Palau (S7)

In Weekdays

06' Igualada (R6-Semidirect train)
08' Martorell (S8)
15' Molí Nou (L8)
22' El Palau (S7)
36' Manresa (R5-Semidirect train)
38' Martorell (S8)
45' Molí Nou (L8)
52' El Palau (S7)

Also, few years ago L8 trains are numerated S3 the extension services to Can Ros are numereted actually and years ago with S33.

I don't count the R5 and R6 lines in central section because are semidirect trains between Barcelona and Martorell. For FGC, this are a Regional service.
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Old May 26th, 2006, 01:29 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitxofo
I am NOT talking about RENFE cercanías, but about FGC:

www.fgc.net

They are like RER, but better: cleaner and newer trains.
I don't see how you can compare FGC with the RER. The RER in central Paris runs in deep tunnels about 30 meters below street level; underground platforms are 225 meters long and receive RER trains that are 208 meters long. At rush hour there is one train every 2 minutes, and outside of rush hour one train every 5 minutes. Each train can accomodate from a minimum of 1258 passengers (oldest RER trains) to a maximum of 2580 passengers per train (newest double-decker RER trains). I don't think the FGC of Barcelona comes anywhere near these mammoth figures (in terms of tunnel depth, platform length, or train capacity).

Last edited by brisavoine; May 26th, 2006 at 01:37 AM.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 04:01 AM   #72
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MISC | Skip-Stop Metro Services

How common are skip-stop services in your country's metro services?

New York City subway offers a lot of options of skip-stop services (dubbed "express" by the MTA), and I believe that most of the express trains run on 4-track sections (for full-time express service) and some trains run on 3-track sections (peak-hour express service).

I heard the Chicago L used to have a skip-stop service in the loop area up until the 90's, but it has been discontinued ever since. Can anyone comment on that?

In São Paulo there are not skip-stop services at all and I think there are no plans to start those services.

Please, post your comments regarding to as skip-stop services exist in your country, in which cities and how they work (i.e. peak-hour only, full-time service, 3- or 4-track lines, if the skip-stop service fare is the same as the local service fare, etc).
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Old December 18th, 2009, 05:28 AM   #73
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In Santiago 3 metro lines (2,4 and 5) have skip-stop services during the peaks. They are called either Ruta Roja (Red route) or Ruta Verde (Green route), and the trains stop only in the estaciones comunes (Common stations) and either the red or green stations.

I think it's a great way to boost a line capacity without adding rolling stock, since the smaller round trip allows more frequent service with the same number of trains.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 09:48 PM   #74
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Would be interesting to see a complete list of cities with skip-stop services.

For those puzzling what it is, Wikipedia has a definition of skip-stop.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 10:07 PM   #75
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I think it's a great idea. Much more efficient for your longer trips, and as you say, good way to boost capacity. It would be quite impossible to implement in London retrospectively due to way the lines are built. It requires forward planning to do it and preferrably shallow cut and cover tunnels.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 10:24 PM   #76
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Quote:
I heard the Chicago L used to have a skip-stop service in the loop area up until the 90's, but it has been discontinued ever since. Can anyone comment on that?
You pretty much said all there needs to be said. The CTA discontinued it when they color-coded the lines to make it easier for people to ride the system. No longer do you have to board a Ravenswood B train, transfer at and AB station to an A train, and get off at an A station; you just need to get on the Brown Line towards Kimball and get off at your station.

Also, it wasn't just in the Loop, the skip-stop was system wide. All lines are 2 tracked.

Map: http://www.chicago-l.org/maps/route/maps/1991map.jpg

Quote:
It would be quite impossible to implement in London retrospectively due to way the lines are built. It requires forward planning to do it and preferrably shallow cut and cover tunnels.
Why would the subway cut have anything to do with running skip-stop service?
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Old December 18th, 2009, 10:29 PM   #77
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No skip stop services in Toronto's system, and there is no chance of it happening. The cost to implement such a service would be prohibitive. The TTC should have built the Yonge Line with 4 tracks in the begining. Apparently the line was at near capacity shortly after it opened.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 10:37 PM   #78
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Quote:
The TTC should have built the Yonge Line with 4 tracks in the begining
Quote:
New York City subway offers a lot of options of skip-stop services (dubbed "express" by the MTA)
As far as I understand skip-stop service, this is different than 4-track express service, as in NYC and as you mentioned the Yonge Line(?).

I should add that Chicago commuter rail (Metra) offers a sort of skip-stop during the rush hours.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 10:46 PM   #79
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Well, you can still implement skip-stop with 3 or 4 tracks, the extra track being used to skip all local stations, and stopping only at major ones. That is what I assume skip-stop service would look like. I could be wrong. Is it possible to have skip-stop service with 2 tracks?
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Old December 18th, 2009, 11:00 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
Well, you can still implement skip-stop with 3 or 4 tracks, the extra track being used to skip all local stations, and stopping only at major ones. That is what I assume skip-stop service would look like. I could be wrong. Is it possible to have skip-stop service with 2 tracks?
What you mentioned with the 4 tracks is simply 4-track 'express service'. the skip-stop that I am familiar with involves 2 track lines, such as in Chicago. The whole point of skip-stop is to maximize capacity and decrease travel times without any infrastructure improvements.

The difference is that with express service you have [typically] 4 tracks, 2 of which are dedicated to express service at all times, like in NYC. With skip-stop all trains share the same trackage. I'm sure you could implement skip-stop with 4 tracks, but what's the point when you could run express 24/7 on the 2 extra tracks?
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