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Old December 18th, 2009, 11:06 PM   #81
Tiago Costa
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The skip-stop service that Santiago and by the Northsider's descriptions uses just 2 tracks. Trains do not pass each other in a same direction.

The "magic" is done by creating 2 "virtual" lines on a given line: let's call them Line A and Line B. Line A trains stop only in A stations, and Line B trains stop only in B stations. There are AB stations too, so both Line A and Line B trains stop in these stations. An example:

-Terminal station 1: AB
-Station 2: A
-Station 3: B
-Station 4: A
-Station 5: B
-Station 6: AB
-Station 7: B
-Station 8: A
-Station 9: AB
-Station 10: B
-Station 11: A
-Terminal Station 12: AB

Line A trains stop only in stations 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 9, 11 and 12.
Line B trains stop only in stations 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10 and 12.

This works because the trains do not stop in all stations, so the average velocity is bigger than if the trains stop in all stations. The only problem is if I am on the station 2, and I want to go to station 7, I have to get other train at station 6.

Of course, it doesn't work with very high frequencies, but it's a wise operation mode, when the rolling stock is limited.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 11:08 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
No skip stop services in Toronto's system, and there is no chance of it happening. The cost to implement such a service would be prohibitive. The TTC should have built the Yonge Line with 4 tracks in the begining. Apparently the line was at near capacity shortly after it opened.
You don't need four lines for skip-stop. The train just doesn't stop at certain stations; and if there is a train ahead in the station, then the following train just gets held until it can continue.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 12:57 AM   #83
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I understand. Like one poster said it is useful when you have limited rolling stock. But if you have to implement skip-stop operation on a 2 track line, that is sign that you have to buy rolling stock, or at least reduce the dwell times at stations. Or implement ATO.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 05:41 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsider View Post
What you mentioned with the 4 tracks is simply 4-track 'express service'. the skip-stop that I am familiar with involves 2 track lines, such as in Chicago. The whole point of skip-stop is to maximize capacity and decrease travel times without any infrastructure improvements.

The difference is that with express service you have [typically] 4 tracks, 2 of which are dedicated to express service at all times, like in NYC. With skip-stop all trains share the same trackage. I'm sure you could implement skip-stop with 4 tracks, but what's the point when you could run express 24/7 on the 2 extra tracks?
I get your point. However, for the average Joe rider it doesn't really matter if it's actually skip-stop or express service, because he'll end up getting faster to his destination anyway. Don't you think? But still, I understand that technically skip-stop is different than express service.

Are there any systems other than NYC Subway that have the extra tracks to run a full-time express service? I can't think of any in the US, but there might be some throughout the world.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 07:40 AM   #85
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London effectively has it along the parallel sections of the District / Piccadilly Lines and Metropolitan / Jubilee Lines, e.g. the Piccadilly Line skips West Kensington, Ravenscourt Park, Stamford Brook, (normally) Turnham Green, and Chiswick Park between Earl's Court and Acton Town, although of those it could only stop at Ravenscourt Park and Turnham Green if it wanted to (and Stamford Brook, but only Westbound).

The District Line used to run genuine skip-stop services decades ago, with certain stations being omitted by 'fast' trains despite generally only being double track. Pretty pointless really, if the 'fast' trains are held behind a 'slow' train at a station ahead as I guess would have often been the case.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 04:17 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
Well, you can still implement skip-stop with 3 or 4 tracks, the extra track being used to skip all local stations, and stopping only at major ones. That is what I assume skip-stop service would look like. I could be wrong. Is it possible to have skip-stop service with 2 tracks?
It is possible, and with adding two trucks for passing on some stations. It can push down capacity of both lines together (express and normal) 20-30%, and needs high profesional traffic control staff. The effect is having high speed traffic solution in the city, but it is possible only if the system isn`t close to capacity limits.

Around Moscow there are 9 main directions of suburban trains. 3 of them have 4 trucks, 1 have 3 trucks, and 5 have 2 trucks. On all of them there are interurban (some of them transcontinental), urban, and limited stops suburban trains. On 2 trucks sections there are just some 4 trucks stations, and problem is solved. The most of trains are on time.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #87
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Quote:
Are there any systems other than NYC Subway that have the extra tracks to run a full-time express service? I can't think of any in the US, but there might be some throughout the world.
London's Met line has it I know. Chicago has quasi express service during the rush hour: the Purple Line.
Quote:
However, for the average Joe rider it doesn't really matter if it's actually skip-stop or express service
You still have to pay attention though, especially with skip-stop since both A and B trains run on the same track. Express trains run on separate tracks so I suppose it's "easier" to know which train you are getting on.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 05:06 PM   #88
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as many Brazilian users had said,in Santiago de Chile Metro we have skip-stops services in Lines 2,4 and 5.. using the same track ,working on peak hours, there's 2 routes (Red&Green) stations and Common stations , they are differenced by posters on the train's front & stations, and LEDs on the train's doors:

line 4..
image hosted on flickr


Quinta normal - L5 , Red Route station
image hosted on flickr

Last edited by C-Carter; December 20th, 2009 at 11:47 PM.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 10:49 PM   #89
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NYCMTA

Ah, good old New York my home town. When the IRT Didivison built the first subway in NY and opened it in 1904, it was purpose-built with 4 tracks. They were very forward thinking and were shocked by the intial response of the subway when it opened. They knew they made the right decision and continued building many of the lines 4-tracks wide.The skip-stop service (the same price as any service in the system) does in fact save time and serves to eliminate unecessary stops in less crowded areas. Crowded in the sense of needed service. Even though the actual population may be very similar from neighborhood to neighborhood, the commercial density can be more demanding for trains to deposit more passenger at far separated stops. Thus the need for skipping several. The added thrill is the speed! They don't quite reach they speeds from just a decade ago (70+ mph), but they can still be thrilling just the same.
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Old December 20th, 2009, 09:48 PM   #90
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I did some research about express services in the NYC Subway system, since I'm more familiar with it than with other systems that offer express or skip-stop services (such as London and Santiago, like other posters have mentioned). All information has been cross-checked between Wikipedia and NYC MTA's website (www.mta.info). Services and operation times are noted below:

A Division Routes
2 (all times)
3 (all times, including late night)
4 (all times)
5 (all times)
6 (rush hour only)
7 (rush hour only)

B Division Routes
A (all times)
B (all times)
D (all times, including late night)
J (all times)
N (all times)
Q (all times, including late night)
Z (rush hour only)
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Old December 21st, 2009, 12:32 AM   #91
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When I was in Hong Kong, they sometimes had to skipstop trains at Central on the Tseun Wan Line, as they'd sometimes be too full to let people on at Admiralty.
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Old April 4th, 2016, 05:21 AM   #92
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Old April 6th, 2016, 02:45 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc View Post
São Paulo has an express line, called 6E.
Do you have a source? I can neither find line 6 nor 6E in Sao Paulo.
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Old April 8th, 2016, 03:35 PM   #94
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In line 16 of Shanghai metro there is an express service.



Source
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Old April 8th, 2016, 05:31 PM   #95
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London's Tube has a couple sections of express similar to NYC's subway.
They have express services to downtown in the AM and from downtown in the PM.
I have yet to ride this during the AM and PM rush-hours and see it for myself,
but I took these pictures from the line map inside the Metropolitan Line.

[IMG]IMG_9984 by Luke Ord, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_9992 by Luke Ord, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old April 8th, 2016, 05:32 PM   #96
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delete

Last edited by lkstrknb; April 8th, 2016 at 06:49 PM. Reason: double post
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Old April 8th, 2016, 06:39 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstrknb View Post
London's Tube has a couple sections of express similar to NYC's subway.
They have express services to downtown in the AM and from downtown in the PM.
I have yet to ride this during the AM and PM rush-hours and see it for myself,
but I took these pictures from the line map inside the Metropolitan Line.

[IMG]IMG_9984 by Luke Ord, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_9992 by Luke Ord, on Flickr[/IMG]
You can say that again!
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Old April 14th, 2016, 12:52 PM   #98
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The classification hierarchy should be refined.
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