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Old November 30th, 2013, 12:35 PM   #581
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Inasmuch as it was reported on this thread that the airport was explicitly planned with a capacity of nine million international passengers and 36 million domestic passengers (=4x the international capacity) it does seem uneducated to be surprised, as the quoted newspaper seems to be, that it isn't an instant international hub.
It wasn't planned to be one.

How the airports in Guangdong province carve out their market niches will be interesting to watch. How will they compete with each other?
Domestic connections to many mainland Chinese cities are a given from each airport, but who will have the most international connections?
At Guangzhou, China Southern (Sky Team alliance) is spreading its wings to Europe, Australia and the USA. At Shenzhen, Shenzhen airlines (Star Alliance) is so far mostly focused on connecting Asia on its own or alliance codeshare partners (Air China, Asiana, ANA). And how does Hong Kong (with oneworld alliance member and world renowned long haul airline Cathay Pacific) come into the equation, with cross-border transport to Guangdong cities being expanded?

As for it being the best airport in the world? If it's too early to say that it's a flop then it is equally too early to say it's the best. It may be currently the world's most unusual airport in terms of architecture, but what makes an airport the best is the "software" - variety of shopping and entertainment, friendliness and efficency of all the staff day after day, year after year (as, for example, Singapore Changi, which has the most awards as the world's best airport despite remarkably unremarkable architecture).
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:02 PM   #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airport Addict View Post
Iit does seem uneducated to be surprised, as the quoted newspaper seems to be, that it isn't an instant international hub.
It wasn't planned to be one.
Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airport Addict View Post
How the airports in Guangdong province carve out their market niches will be interesting to watch. How will they compete with each other?
Domestic connections to many mainland Chinese cities are a given from each airport, but who will have the most international connections?
Air China: Guangzhou 16, Shenzhen 9
Dalian Airlines - Shenzhen 2
Beijing Capital Airlines - Guangzhou 6
Chengdu Airlines - Guangzhou 1, Shenzhen 3
China Eastern - Guangzhou 26, Shenzhen 20
China Southern - Guangzhou 95, Shenzhen 52
Chongqing Airlines - both 1
China United - Guangzhou 3, Shenzhen 1
Hainan Airlines - Guangzhou 30, Shenzhen 31
Hebei Airlines - both 1
Etc. for now.

International connections by Chinese airlines:
Air China - only Shenzhen
China Southern - both, but Guangzhou is hub
Hainan Airlines - only Guangzhou
Shenzhen Airlines - only Shenzhen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airport Addict View Post
At Guangzhou, China Southern (Sky Team alliance) is spreading its wings to Europe, Australia and the USA. At Shenzhen, Shenzhen airlines (Star Alliance) is so far mostly focused on connecting Asia on its own or alliance codeshare partners (Air China, Asiana, ANA). And how does Hong Kong (with oneworld alliance member and world renowned long haul airline Cathay Pacific) come into the equation, with cross-border transport to Guangdong cities being expanded?
Even without border in the way, Hong Kong is at the tip of a peninsula. Baoan is much more accessible overland from various places in Pearl River delta
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #583
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I'm sure EK would like to fly into this new airport but China is blocking additional access. I wouldn't be surprised if other airlines are having the same problems.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:26 PM   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Why?

Air China: Guangzhou 16, Shenzhen 9
Dalian Airlines - Shenzhen 2
Beijing Capital Airlines - Guangzhou 6
Chengdu Airlines - Guangzhou 1, Shenzhen 3
China Eastern - Guangzhou 26, Shenzhen 20
China Southern - Guangzhou 95, Shenzhen 52
Chongqing Airlines - both 1
China United - Guangzhou 3, Shenzhen 1
Hainan Airlines - Guangzhou 30, Shenzhen 31
Hebei Airlines - both 1
Etc. for now.

International connections by Chinese airlines:
Air China - only Shenzhen
China Southern - both, but Guangzhou is hub
Hainan Airlines - only Guangzhou
Shenzhen Airlines - only Shenzhen

Even without border in the way, Hong Kong is at the tip of a peninsula. Baoan is much more accessible overland from various places in Pearl River delta
And you don't need to go through customs twice.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:51 PM   #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
I'm sure EK would like to fly into this new airport but China is blocking additional access. I wouldn't be surprised if other airlines are having the same problems.
Are the Chinese airlines having the same problems?
Destination count:
Air China - Shenzhen 1
China Southern - Guangzhou 40, Shenzhen 1
Hainan Airlines - Guangzhou 1
Shenzhen Airlines - Shenzhen 5.

Continuing with domestics:
Juneyao - Guangzhou 1, Shenzhen 2
Kunming Airlines - both 1
Okay - Guangzhou 1, Shenzhen 2
Shandong - Guangzhou 4, Shenzhen 5
Shanghai Airlines - Guangzhou 6, Shenzhen 1
Shenzhen Airlines - Guangzhou 27, Shenzhen 56
Again etc. for now.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 04:03 PM   #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Why?
because the central gov of china gives out some expectation or goal for airports to achieve. shenzhen airport was given as a regional and mainline hub, while guangzhou was the nation's international gateway
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Old November 30th, 2013, 04:05 PM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
because the central gov of china gives out some expectation or goal for airports to achieve. shenzhen airport was given as a regional and mainline hub, while guangzhou was the nation's international gateway
in the future, maybe it will be changed, shenzhen will be more important.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 05:50 PM   #588
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This is by no question the best looking airport right now and will be so for a couple years until a new airport will open in China.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 05:59 PM   #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
because the central gov of china gives out some expectation or goal for airports to achieve. shenzhen airport was given as a regional and mainline hub
How is Baoan achieving that?
Continuing with airlines:
Sichuan - Guangzhou 3, Shenzhen 3
Spring - Guangzhou 2, Shenzhen 4
Sky Shuttle - Shenzhen 1
Tibet Airlines - Shenzhen 2
West Air - both 1
Xiamen Airlines - Guangzhou 4, Shenzhen 6
So that was all the domestics.
Now, checking for total non-duplicate domestic destinations
Shenzhen has 56 of Shenzhen Airlines
Air China has Dazhou - others compete with Shenzhen Airlines
Chengdu Airlines has Liuzhou
China Eastern has Dali, Jinggangshan, Mangshi, Ningbo, Tengchong

Etc. for now
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Old December 1st, 2013, 01:27 AM   #590
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Lets take a look at how empty it is

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Old December 1st, 2013, 02:38 AM   #591
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Congratulations for the opening of SZX new terminal, spectacular structure with quite impressive interior design. Superb!
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Old December 1st, 2013, 02:52 AM   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakexu View Post
in the future, maybe it will be changed, shenzhen will be more important.
That might happen. But then again, both cities have 20 million and will become wealthier so they will both need major airports. For people living in Shenzhen, commuting from airports in GZ or HK is not that convenient.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 03:29 AM   #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VECTROTALENZIS View Post
This is by no question the best looking airport right now and will be so for a couple years until a new airport will open in China.
next one maybe not that special like that, because we can see some news for new guangzhou T2, shanghai pudong S1S2 and beijing second airport. maybe just useful, not design.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 01:08 PM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanspy View Post
But then again, both cities have 20 million
Possibly, but depends on count.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanspy View Post
and will become wealthier so they will both need major airports. For people living in Shenzhen, commuting from airports in GZ or HK is not that convenient.
What do you think is easier - get to Guangzhou airport from Shenzhen, or get to Shenzhen airport from Guangzhou?
Counting on the unique destinations:
China Southern: Baotou, Changde, Dandong, Ganzhou, Lianyungang, Luoyang, Luzhou, Meixian, Mudanjiang, Nanchong, Nanyang, Shijiazhuang, Yanji, Yantai, Yiwu, Zhangjiajie, Zhoushan
China United: Beijing-Nanyuan
Hainan: Huaian, Kashgar, Linyi, Manzhouli, Xuzhou
Shandong: Weihai
etc. for now again.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 01:30 PM   #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Possibly, but depends on count.

What do you think is easier - get to Guangzhou airport from Shenzhen, or get to Shenzhen airport from Guangzhou?
Counting on the unique destinations:
China Southern: Baotou, Changde, Dandong, Ganzhou, Lianyungang, Luoyang, Luzhou, Meixian, Mudanjiang, Nanchong, Nanyang, Shijiazhuang, Yanji, Yantai, Yiwu, Zhangjiajie, Zhoushan
China United: Beijing-Nanyuan
Hainan: Huaian, Kashgar, Linyi, Manzhouli, Xuzhou
Shandong: Weihai
etc. for now again.
Either way you have to use the subway, change for a intercity train and then use the subway again. I'd say that they're equally easy but it's still inconvenient to have to use another city's airport.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 01:30 PM   #596
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The VIP lounge looks really nice.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 04:03 PM   #597
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by 深圳蓝天
http://pic.feeyo.com/posts/598/5986476.html



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Old December 1st, 2013, 04:05 PM   #598
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and more on this 'empty' airport

'don't quite know what people are doing there cause someone told me it flies to no where and no one flies to there too'



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Old December 1st, 2013, 04:42 PM   #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
and more on this 'empty' airport

'don't quite know what people are doing there cause someone told me it flies to no where and no one flies to there too'
We shouldn't stick to the topic of 'empty airport' here. It was mentioned by a couple of retarded tabloid newspapers which are known to post nonsense on a daily basis on any topic. To my knowledge few if any 'serious' Western newspapers said that. They keep silent because they know their arguments would be demolished as already happened with the bashing campaign of China's HSR which was a good lesson for them.

However if we want to prove anything in relation to 'emptiness' I would simply quote the numbers:

- Capacity of the new terminal: ~45 milion passengers annually.

- Actual Passenger numbers in SZX in previous years:
-- 2012: ~29.5 million
-- 2011: ~28.2 million
-- 2010: ~26.7 million
-- 2009: ~24.5 million
-- 2008: ~21.4 million
-- 2007: ~20.6 million
-- 2006: ~18.3 million
-- 2005: ~16.2 million
-- 2004: ~14.2 million
-- 2003: ~10.8 million
-- 2002: ~9.3 million
-- 2001: ~7.8 million
-- 2000: ~6.4 million

Numbers taken from Wikipedia

Table:


CAAC data taken from: http://www.anna.aero/2013/03/13/shen...ngers-in-2012/

Those numbers show that a terminal with a capacity of 45 million seems to be just in time. The occupancy rate of the terminal is about 66% (based on 2012 data) which seems to be very reasonable given that growth of passenger numbers will probably continue given continuing expansion of Shenzhen and development of Qianhai CBD with a free trade zone.

In order to reach 45 million by year 2020 the growth should be an average of 6.48% per annum which is a very reasonable number. Therefore it looks like everything is done in a very rational and well thought out manner so far.

Compare this to Singapore Changi airport which is known to be the best airport in the world for many many yars now:

- Capacity (Terminals 1,2,3): 66 million.
- Actual passenger numbers (2012): 51.2 million

The occupancy rate of Changi therefore is ~77%. It is higher than SZX but a new terminal (T4) is already U/C in Changi. In SZX it won't begin until 2020 (?).

If we look at Singapore again many probably have noticed that very often it feels kinda... empty-ish. Which is for a very good reason. There is a policy of having more capacity than the actual demand at any given moment in SIN. In other words SIN doesn't want to have its terminals working at full capacity (let alone overcapacity) because that would mean loss in service quality and passenger comfort and satisfaction. Who likes crowded airports? A rather contrary policy is used in most other airports in the rest of the world: always use every single bit of capacity before building more and always drag it to the last moment. The result is (of course with other factors along the way), as mentioned before, that SIN is (and probably will stay for a long time) the best passenger airport in the world.

Therefore there is no need to worry about some spare capacity in SZX. In fact this seems to be a very good plan if SZX want to become as good with its 'software' (i.e. management and services) as it is with 'hardware' (terminal and other infrastructure). There is every reason to believe that one day this will happen. And probably sooner rather than later.

Last edited by Pansori; December 1st, 2013 at 05:05 PM.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 05:39 PM   #600
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Does not seems empty at all compare to some of the european airports (ex. Madrid)
For the first 10 months of 2013 passenger traffic rose by 9,7% and expecting nearly 32 mil. passengers at the end of the year.
The question is how many new flight and connection will be added in near future, that i do not know, not an expert.
Not sure if it is a good comparism but look at Kunming airport. Year and half since opening new airport and traffic in 2013 for the first 10 months rose by 25,2 % possibly reaching 30 mil. passengers (2013) vs. 24 mil. in 2012
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