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Old December 1st, 2013, 05:44 PM   #601
daniu79
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Seriously, what the **** is wrong with Western media.
Domestic travellers in China is enough to fill the entire airport.
Atlanta is the so called busiest airport the world....but out of the 95 million odd passengers it handle, only a mere 10 million were international passengers. So can you all Atlanta 'An airport nobody wants to use'???
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Old December 1st, 2013, 06:16 PM   #602
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If China opens a piece of overbuilt infrastructure with future demand in mind then America calls it fiscal waste, mal-investment and a white elephant.

If China opens an piece of underbuilt infrastructure that is overwhelmed on day one America calls it poor management, lackluster planning, and lack of foresight.

If China does does not improve any infrastructure America asks "So this is a aspiring superpower?"

Yet America paradoxically does all these things at the same time and people wonder why nothing is getting done right.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 07:16 PM   #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanspy View Post
Either way you have to use the subway, change for a intercity train and then use the subway again. I'd say that they're equally easy but it's still inconvenient to have to use another city's airport.
How about Dongguan?
Dongguan has no airport. You have to use another city´s airport anyway. And Dongguan also has no subway.
Is it easier to travel from Dongguan to Shenzhen airport or from Dongguan to Guangzhou airport?

Shenzhen airport is between Shenzhen and Dongguan. Guangzhou airport is not between Guangzhou and Dongguan. It is between Guangzhou and Qingyuan.

Could a subway be built from Shenzhen airport to Dongguan, Humen, Changan, Bitou or Songgang?

Continuing with destinations:
Sichuan Airlines: Wanzhou
Sky Shuttle: Macau
Tibet Airlines: Lhasa
And that is all.
I count 91 domestic destinations from Shenzhen.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 08:04 PM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
How about Dongguan?
Dongguan has no airport. You have to use another city´s airport anyway. And Dongguan also has no subway.
Is it easier to travel from Dongguan to Shenzhen airport or from Dongguan to Guangzhou airport?

Shenzhen airport is between Shenzhen and Dongguan. Guangzhou airport is not between Guangzhou and Dongguan. It is between Guangzhou and Qingyuan.

Could a subway be built from Shenzhen airport to Dongguan, Humen, Changan, Bitou or Songgang?
The GZ-DG-SZ intercity line will connect western Dongguan directly to the Bao'an airport. The eastern section will have to ride the DongHui intercity line and transfer to GZ-DG-SZ, but who knows MOR might consider through trains between the lines
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Old December 1st, 2013, 09:23 PM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
The GZ-DG-SZ intercity line will connect western Dongguan directly to the Bao'an airport.
In which year does Shenzhen-Dongguan-Guangzhou intercity railway open?
I count that at present there are 91 domestic destinations from Shenzhen, and 95 from Guangzhou on China Southern alone. Can anyone add new domestic destinations out of Shenzhen airport?
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Old December 1st, 2013, 11:58 PM   #606
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I still remember when Beijing opened its new terminal. Western media published the same shit!

In October 2013 Shenzhen airport got 2.88 million passengers (+14.4% y/y). It'll top 40 million yearly passengers a in a short-mid term.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 02:05 AM   #607
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I still remember when Beijing opened its new terminal. Western media published the same shit!

In October 2013 Shenzhen airport got 2.88 million passengers (+14.4% y/y). It'll top 40 million yearly passengers a in a short-mid term.

I am pretty positive.

China Southern will probably use more wide body aircrafts on Shenzhen's domestic routes as the demand is so high.

In the past September, I flew with Air China from Shenzhen back to London via Beijing. Both aircrafts on the two sectors were B777, with the layout of 2-5-2 for domestic part and 3-3-3 for international part. And Beijing-Shenzhen route is the second demanding domestic route in China after Beijing-Shanghai. Hainan Airlines used to fly with A330 with all business class on Beijing-Shenzhen route too.

On the international side, Shenzhen is just too close to Guangzhou for China Southern to have another international-domestic hub. Although the have started to put on some new routes which has been called for years, most of them are just chartered rather than normal scheduled.

I can see Shenzhen Airlines has started to work on its international routes from Shenzhen as it is now a member of Star Alliance. But before they have decided to buy any wide body aircrafts, the opportunity for it will not be too optimistic. That's why they have chosen southeastern Asia as the starting point.

Hainan Airlines has potential to be another main operator in Shenzhen after China Southern and Shenzhen Airlines/Air China group. And it did tried to run Shenzhen-Sydney and Shenzhen-Kolkata for a really short period. If it can resume this two routes that will be great for Shenzhen to compete with Guangzhou and Hong Kong to be another hub in PRD area. But Hainan Airlines needs to work on its connection from Shenzhen.

Shenzhen has a relatively strong network flying to Chinese cities compare to Hong Kong. Members of Star Alliance should now notice this opportunity for them to connect to the Chinese network.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 02:07 AM   #608
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This airport will reach capacity around 2020. I there any plans when the expansion is going to start?
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 02:20 AM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VECTROTALENZIS View Post
This airport will reach capacity around 2020. I there any plans when the expansion is going to start?
heard some rumours saying that they would start to construct in 2015, 2016, 2018, 2020 or finishing before 2040. no one knows how shenzhen airport will be growing. but the good news is terminals A and B are saved and will remain their functions as two terminals, in case the new terminal is filled too quick.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 08:42 AM   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
heard some rumours saying that they would start to construct in 2015, 2016, 2018, 2020 or finishing before 2040. no one knows how shenzhen airport will be growing. but the good news is terminals A and B are saved and will remain their functions as two terminals, in case the new terminal is filled too quick.

Logic suggests that LIne 16 would have to be completed in 2016 before T4 would start construction. For the simple reason being that the the line would run directly under the proposed site for T4. I wouldn't expect them to delay building T4 for long because I think T3 will reach capacity sooner than expected.. Once transportation links are in place in the PRD then flying becomes more attractive. I mean the proposed Snen Zhen Zhong Shan bridge would allow somebody to drive straight over the the airport, quicker and easier.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 10:49 AM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
China Southern will probably use more wide body aircrafts on Shenzhen's domestic routes as the demand is so high.

In the past September, I flew with Air China from Shenzhen back to London via Beijing. Both aircrafts on the two sectors were B777, with the layout of 2-5-2 for domestic part and 3-3-3 for international part. And Beijing-Shenzhen route is the second demanding domestic route in China after Beijing-Shanghai.
And ahead of Beijing-Guangzhou?
Widebodies add seats. They do not add destinations, or even frequencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
Hainan Airlines used to fly with A330 with all business class on Beijing-Shenzhen route too.
Very interesting. A widebody with no economy, like Singapore´s A340-500?
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Originally Posted by bearb View Post
Shenzhen has a relatively strong network flying to Chinese cities compare to Hong Kong.
But not compared to Guangzhou.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 01:17 AM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
Logic suggests that LIne 16 would have to be completed in 2016 before T4 would start construction. For the simple reason being that the the line would run directly under the proposed site for T4. I wouldn't expect them to delay building T4 for long because I think T3 will reach capacity sooner than expected.. Once transportation links are in place in the PRD then flying becomes more attractive. I mean the proposed Snen Zhen Zhong Shan bridge would allow somebody to drive straight over the the airport, quicker and easier.
that's the line 11.
yes i think T3 will reach its capacity sooner than expected.
but the good thing is there are still Terminals A and B can be re-used it T3 gets too crowded.
and I think Terminals A and B are ideal for Lost Cost Carriers in the future.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 01:18 AM   #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
And ahead of Beijing-Guangzhou?
Widebodies add seats. They do not add destinations, or even frequencies.

Very interesting. A widebody with no economy, like Singapore´s A340-500?

But not compared to Guangzhou.

compare to Guangzhou, Shenzhen is not that weak in domestic networking. but the international part is way far behind.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 04:30 AM   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VECTROTALENZIS View Post
This airport will reach capacity around 2020. I there any plans when the expansion is going to start?
The airport PAX can't grow forever. I'm just curious what is the peak capacity for a city like Shenzhen?
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 04:38 AM   #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
The airport PAX can't grow forever. I'm just curious what is the peak capacity for a city like Shenzhen?
What we have to keep in mind is not the city but rather the region i.e. PRD. In the very basic view we're looking at SZX, CAN, HKG and MFM (anything I missed?). Improved transportation links mean that there are less obstacles to swiftly travel to the ultimate destination regardless which airport you're using.

For example last two times when choosing my flight I was simply looking which is the cheapest and most convenient option to get to any of those airports. In the future it will make even less difference where to go and passengers (either business or tourist) will simply look for better price and convenient schedule. There certainly is alot of space to grow for PRD passenger numbers. Especially with Qianhai development and the fact that the main hub HKG is getting somewhat full without much space for expansion. Therefore I would predict that SZX will continue growing in the medium term at a fast pace. Location is fantastic and so is the facility.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 07:27 AM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
What we have to keep in mind is not the city but rather the region i.e. PRD. In the very basic view we're looking at SZX, CAN, HKG and MFM (anything I missed?). Improved transportation links mean that there are less obstacles to swiftly travel to the ultimate destination regardless which airport you're using.

For example last two times when choosing my flight I was simply looking which is the cheapest and most convenient option to get to any of those airports. In the future it will make even less difference where to go and passengers (either business or tourist) will simply look for better price and convenient schedule. There certainly is alot of space to grow for PRD passenger numbers. Especially with Qianhai development and the fact that the main hub HKG is getting somewhat full without much space for expansion. Therefore I would predict that SZX will continue growing in the medium term at a fast pace. Location is fantastic and so is the facility.
I believe you left out Zhuhai, but your obervation is spot on.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 07:30 AM   #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
that's the line 11.
yes i think T3 will reach its capacity sooner than expected.
but the good thing is there are still Terminals A and B can be re-used it T3 gets too crowded.
and I think Terminals A and B are ideal for Lost Cost Carriers in the future.
Good call on the low cost airlines using Terminal A and B but I feel T4 will be built sooner rather than later once the transportation network is up and running then then Bao An will be a more attractive option than it was before.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 10:32 AM   #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
compare to Guangzhou, Shenzhen is not that weak in domestic networking. but the international part is way far behind.
Not that weak, but still weaker. And that´s one consideration in choosing where to connect internationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog
The airport PAX can't grow forever. I'm just curious what is the peak capacity for a city like Shenzhen?
Airport, or city?
Compare how small the city of Atlanta is. But US reliance on air and on hubs is stupid and should not be repeated by China.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori
What we have to keep in mind is not the city but rather the region i.e. PRD. In the very basic view we're looking at SZX, CAN, HKG and MFM (anything I missed?). Improved transportation links mean that there are less obstacles to swiftly travel to the ultimate destination regardless which airport you're using.
Improved transportation links should increase, not decrease the advantage of SZX.
For now, if you want to go to Dongguan via CAN, you need to travel by subway, then intercity rail. If you want to go to Dongguan via SZX, ditto.
The difference is that from CAN, you travel towards Dongguan by subway, and then towards Dongguan by rail. In case of SZX, you now have to travel back to central Shenzhen, then back to Dongguan.
If an intercity railway gets built, it might travel from CAN through Guangzhou to Dongguan without forcing a connection. But even then, the distance from CAN through Guangzhou to Dongguan will simply be longer distance and take longer time than the distance directly SZX to Dongguan without passing Shenzhen.
Does the intercity railway now under construction Shenzhen-Baoan-Dongguan-Guangzhou actually go through Guangzhou to CAN?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori
In the future it will make even less difference where to go
As I showed, should make more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori
and passengers (either business or tourist) will simply look for better price and convenient schedule. There certainly is alot of space to grow for PRD passenger numbers. Especially with Qianhai development and the fact that the main hub HKG is getting somewhat full without much space for expansion.
Just how is HKG "main hub"? Which serves more destinations in China - HKG or CAN?
Also, even if Chek Lap Kok could be expanded, it is still at the tip of a peninsula. A long, long way from Guangzhou, and lacking good, direct and fast rail there.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 12:07 PM   #619
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I think with your attempts to rationalize you loose the point a little bit.

It will make less difference where to go BECAUSE of improved transport links which means it will be easy peasy to get to any airport from any location which is still not always the case today.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 01:36 PM   #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I think with your attempts to rationalize you loose the point a little bit.

It will make less difference where to go BECAUSE of improved transport links which means it will be easy peasy to get to any airport from any location which is still not always the case today.

By improved transportation links if you are including the proposed Shen Zhen to Zhong Shan bridge then you are right that is a game changer.
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