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Old December 3rd, 2013, 01:45 PM   #621
bearb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Not that weak, but still weaker. And thatīs one consideration in choosing where to connect internationally.

Improved transportation links should increase, not decrease the advantage of SZX.
For now, if you want to go to Dongguan via CAN, you need to travel by subway, then intercity rail. If you want to go to Dongguan via SZX, ditto.
The difference is that from CAN, you travel towards Dongguan by subway, and then towards Dongguan by rail. In case of SZX, you now have to travel back to central Shenzhen, then back to Dongguan.
If an intercity railway gets built, it might travel from CAN through Guangzhou to Dongguan without forcing a connection. But even then, the distance from CAN through Guangzhou to Dongguan will simply be longer distance and take longer time than the distance directly SZX to Dongguan without passing Shenzhen.
Does the intercity railway now under construction Shenzhen-Baoan-Dongguan-Guangzhou actually go through Guangzhou to CAN?

As I showed, should make more.

Just how is HKG "main hub"? Which serves more destinations in China - HKG or CAN?
Also, even if Chek Lap Kok could be expanded, it is still at the tip of a peninsula. A long, long way from Guangzhou, and lacking good, direct and fast rail there.
you may not know on some of the routes there are more seats on shenzhen route rather than guangzhou route.

and you may not know that dongguan dose not really have a "city area". it is a combination of different small towns. the rail to dongguan doesn't mean they will be connected home as the towns are not compact at all.

the guangzhou-dongguan-shenzhen intercity rail are only connecting two of towns in dongguan which will be humen and chang'an.

railway is not the only thing can transfer people. the highway network in guangdong is really good. and shenzhen airport has its own coach terminal. taking a coach to the airport is more direct, less crowded and comfortable.

certainly guangzhou has a lot more chinese route because all routes to/from hong kong will be consider as international even though in china.

and do you think all 40+ million passengers for hong kong airport are going into hong kong? lots of them are trying to go to other destinations via its strong international connection. and i don't think guangzhou is doing good in its transferring service

Last edited by bearb; December 3rd, 2013 at 01:53 PM.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 01:58 PM   #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
and more on this 'empty' airport

'don't quite know what people are doing there cause someone told me it flies to no where and no one flies to there too'



If that someone is referring to Bao An airport NOT flying anywhere then he/she is right it doesn't FLY anywhere indeed. But the airport was never design to fly anywhere so that doesn't come as a surprise.

As for the second point that nobody flies there the most likely mean that few Americans or other westerners fly there and but inference the airport but empty because China and by extension Chinese people are so poor how could most of them afford to fly anywhere.

As most people in western countries have never heard of Shen Zhen/Guangzhou or indeed the Pearl River Delta that fact reinforces the assumption that it must be small and insignificant therefore not worth going to.

Of course it's an extreme view maybe not the majority view but subtlly reinforced by the western media who understand most people are driven by perception and perception is driven by the media.

Hence the openings of airports etc are seen at best as white elephants at worst as a part of a elaborate charade. THe western media's intention largely is to create an unfavorable impression of China in general so as to reflect poorly on the political class and their idealogy.

Socialism is fundamentally flawed incapable of delivering the basic needs of people held together only by brute force and so on. They can't be expected to report the facts on the ground lest you weaken the very illusion they have created in the first place.

" What is done at night always appears by day"
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 06:45 PM   #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
you may not know on some of the routes there are more seats on shenzhen route rather than guangzhou route.
Yes, but I counted Shenzhen routes. There are fewer than Guangzhou routes. Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
railway is not the only thing can transfer people. the highway network in guangdong is really good. and shenzhen airport has its own coach terminal. taking a coach to the airport is more direct, less crowded and comfortable.
If highways and coaches are good, is coach from SZX commonly used to reach Guangzhou?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
certainly guangzhou has a lot more chinese route because all routes to/from hong kong will be consider as international even though in china.
Yes, compared to Hong Kong. But why does Guangzhou have more Chinese routes than Shenzhen?
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 07:20 PM   #624
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Traffic is a bit of a nightmare between Shenzhen and Guangzhou despite good highways. The new G trains from Shenzhen North take only 40 minutes to reach Guangzhou South, a considerable time savings over bus travel.

Guangzhou is also a much bigger city than Shenzhen. China Southern, one of the 3 key airline groups in China, is based there, which explains why they have better connectivity.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 07:29 PM   #625
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How is Guangzhou a much bigger city? I thought it should be same or smaller by now?
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 09:11 PM   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Traffic is a bit of a nightmare between Shenzhen and Guangzhou despite good highways. The new G trains from Shenzhen North take only 40 minutes to reach Guangzhou South, a considerable time savings over bus travel.
Only the ones with two stops. Nonstop G trains arrive in 29 minutes.
Guangmingcheng-Guangzhou South has no nonstops, but 1 stop trains mostly take 32 minutes. Humen-Guangzhou takes 17 minutes nonstop and 24 minutes with the Qingsheng stop.

Which station is closest to Baoan airport: Shenzhen North, Guangmingcheng or Humen?
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 09:59 PM   #627
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Population of the largest cities according to my calculations and observations

Shanghai 22 million

Beijing 18 million

Guangzhou 17 million

Shenzhen 15 million

Chengdu 12 million

Chongqing 10 million

Wuhan 9 million

Tianjin 8 million
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Old December 4th, 2013, 12:54 AM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Yes, but I counted Shenzhen routes. There are fewer than Guangzhou routes. Why?
on the ground, before shenzhen's new terminal open, it was hardly to accept more flights. the growth in shenzhen in the past few years were mainly through using aircrafts with larger capacity.

in the sky, Guangzhou airport is further north. and it is more clear as the two other major airports are far away from it.
most of the domestic flights from shenzhen and guangzhou and also the chinese flights from hong kong are flying to the north.
all shenzhen flights to the north towards changsha, wuhan, zhengzhou and beijing will join with guangzhou's flight in the same ''air-route''.
in the chinese controlled area, the central-southern aviation control centre will full fill guangzhou's need first, then shenzhen's.
guangzhou has better connection for international flights than shenzhen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
If highways and coaches are good, is coach from SZX commonly used to reach Guangzhou?
for the eastern shenzhen, train is the best choice. for the western shenzhen, coach is better.

before the HSR Guangzhou-Shenzhen line's open, it was a big yes for the people in Bao'an district to take coaches to guangzhou, as the Shenzhen Railway Station is so far for there. Bao'an district has 1/3 of population in shenzhen.

now, people in the west is still taking coach. lots of shenzhen students go to university in guangzhou take coach back to campus. my ex-colleague from guangzhou take coach back as he lives in nanshan which is not close to either shenzhen north or shenzhen station.

shenzhen north coach terminal in shenzhen north railway station has got route to guangzhou.

shenzhen station in luohu will cost the people in longgang city centre, nanshan city centre and shekou area and bao'an at least 1 hour to reach. and then the train is not that hi-speed.

trains from shenzhen north station is not so frequent and they take you to nowhere in guangzhou, you will still need an hour from guangzhou south to the city centre.

taking a train is not the only solution from shenzhen to guangzhou.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Yes, compared to Hong Kong. But why does Guangzhou have more Chinese routes than Shenzhen?
is repeating to ask the same question in a different your hobby?
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Old December 4th, 2013, 12:56 AM   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Traffic is a bit of a nightmare between Shenzhen and Guangzhou despite good highways. The new G trains from Shenzhen North take only 40 minutes to reach Guangzhou South, a considerable time savings over bus travel.

Guangzhou is also a much bigger city than Shenzhen. China Southern, one of the 3 key airline groups in China, is based there, which explains why they have better connectivity.
G trains are faster than the Ds from Luohu. but Gs will still take 40+ minutes to get into guangzhou city centre from guangzhou south station.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 12:59 AM   #630
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
How is Guangzhou a much bigger city? I thought it should be same or smaller by now?
guangzhou is much bigger in terms of size and population.

but as its urban area is compact so you won't feel it is that large. lots of things are in walking distance which is good.

shenzhen's urban area is spread into different areas so you feel it big.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 01:01 AM   #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Only the ones with two stops. Nonstop G trains arrive in 29 minutes.
Guangmingcheng-Guangzhou South has no nonstops, but 1 stop trains mostly take 32 minutes. Humen-Guangzhou takes 17 minutes nonstop and 24 minutes with the Qingsheng stop.

Which station is closest to Baoan airport: Shenzhen North, Guangmingcheng or Humen?
are you serious?

there are only 4 trains daily from guangmingcheng to guangzhou south. and 2 from guangmingcheng to qingsheng. both guangmingcheng station and qingsheng station are in the middle of no where.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 01:02 AM   #632
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http://pic.feeyo.com/posts/598/5988569.html
by cccs8

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Old December 4th, 2013, 01:22 AM   #633
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by seabird001
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Old December 4th, 2013, 01:31 AM   #634
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by 盘龙江岸

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China Southern high class check-in area



China Southern lounge 1












Local Bus to Airport East metro station








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Old December 4th, 2013, 02:31 AM   #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Traffic is a bit of a nightmare between Shenzhen and Guangzhou despite good highways. The new G trains from Shenzhen North take only 40 minutes to reach Guangzhou South, a considerable time savings over bus travel.

Guangzhou is also a much bigger city than Shenzhen. China Southern, one of the 3 key airline groups in China, is based there, which explains why they have better connectivity.
The D trains only take 1 hour, city centre to city centre
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Old December 4th, 2013, 02:43 AM   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Only the ones with two stops. Nonstop G trains arrive in 29 minutes.
Guangmingcheng-Guangzhou South has no nonstops, but 1 stop trains mostly take 32 minutes. Humen-Guangzhou takes 17 minutes nonstop and 24 minutes with the Qingsheng stop.

Which station is closest to Baoan airport: Shenzhen North, Guangmingcheng or Humen?
At the moment, most people will take a bus from the airport to Dongguan and other places. If they wanted to go to Guangzhou then they will fly or take the train directly to Guangzhou. Therefore, how far those stations are from Shenzhen airport is not important.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 03:08 AM   #637
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The D trains only take 1 hour, city centre to city centre
1 hour and 19 minutes
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Old December 4th, 2013, 03:17 AM   #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
guangzhou is much bigger in terms of size and population.

but as its urban area is compact so you won't feel it is that large. lots of things are in walking distance which is good.

shenzhen's urban area is spread into different areas so you feel it big.
Still whichever way you look at it it doesn't seem 'much bigger' in any sense.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 03:23 AM   #639
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Population of the largest cities according to my calculations and observations

Shanghai 22 million

Beijing 18 million

Guangzhou 17 million

Shenzhen 15 million

Chengdu 12 million

Chongqing 10 million

Wuhan 9 million

Tianjin 8 million
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Old December 4th, 2013, 03:55 AM   #640
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Still whichever way you look at it it doesn't seem 'much bigger' in any sense.

guangzhou is just 3x shenzhen


but guangzhou airport is further north away from central area of PRD region

shenzhen airport is not so far from most of the cities in PRD region, but it is a bit too closed to the Mainland China-Hong Kong border and Hong Kong airport and its runways are relatively vertical to the runways of HKIA on the map, which is dragging it behind from its hi-speed growth some years ago.

Last edited by bearb; December 4th, 2013 at 04:05 AM.
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