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Old December 4th, 2013, 04:51 AM   #641
Pansori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
guangzhou is just 3x shenzhen


but guangzhou airport is further north away from central area of PRD region

shenzhen airport is not so far from most of the cities in PRD region, but it is a bit too closed to the Mainland China-Hong Kong border and Hong Kong airport and its runways are relatively vertical to the runways of HKIA on the map, which is dragging it behind from its hi-speed growth some years ago.
'Guagzhou' in this case is a chunk of land 7400km2 in area compared to 2000km2 in Shenzhen which is much more representative of what the actual city is. There is absolutely no way Guangzhou is actually 7400km2 in area. In that case you could say it's bigger than Shanghai too. Or that Chongqing is bigger than all of them put together.

What i mean is the actual size of the city and in this case they seem to be very comparable.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
on the ground, before shenzhen's new terminal open, it was hardly to accept more flights. the growth in shenzhen in the past few years were mainly through using aircrafts with larger capacity.
Thanks. So, the bottleneck was at the number of planes that could use the old terminals - airlines wanted to put more passengers in airport, but because they could not add flights, they had to use bigger planes which they could.
Now that the new terminal is open, are airlines adding new flights that they had wanted to fly but could not?
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Originally Posted by bearb View Post
in the sky, Guangzhou airport is further north. and it is more clear as the two other major airports are far away from it.
most of the domestic flights from shenzhen and guangzhou and also the chinese flights from hong kong are flying to the north.
all shenzhen flights to the north towards changsha, wuhan, zhengzhou and beijing will join with guangzhou's flight in the same ''air-route''.
in the chinese controlled area, the central-southern aviation control centre will full fill guangzhou's need first, then shenzhen's.
Are the international flights from Hong Kong to Europe and America that fly north over China and Siberia also stuck in queue behind domestic flights out of Guangzhou and Shenzhen?
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Originally Posted by bearb View Post
guangzhou has better connection for international flights than shenzhen.
But thatīs a chicken and egg problem. Do international connections fly to Guangzhou because Guangzhou has better domestic connections, or do domestic connections fly to Guangzhou because Guangzhou has better international connections?
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Originally Posted by bearb View Post
is repeating to ask the same question in a different your hobby?
No, I do not like if I need to. But if I thought my question was clear enough, and then the answer is about something else like the question was misunderstood first time, then I try to clarify my question.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Thanks. So, the bottleneck was at the number of planes that could use the old terminals - airlines wanted to put more passengers in airport, but because they could not add flights, they had to use bigger planes which they could.
Now that the new terminal is open, are airlines adding new flights that they had wanted to fly but could not?
Now the airport can accommodate more flights and handle larger aircrafts i.e. A380. Shenzhen municipal government is giving out bonus to the airlines who is trying to fly to shenzhen from outside China. 10m rmb per route from other Asia destinations and 20m rmb per route from outside Asia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Are the international flights from Hong Kong to Europe and America that fly north over China and Siberia also stuck in queue behind domestic flights out of Guangzhou and Shenzhen?
i don't think international flights from hong kong is that controlled by the chinese aviation bureau. the flights from europe will normally fly over the west of PRD region such as Foshan, Zhongshan and Zhuhai. and the flights from hong kong to america will go to the west north direction and not fly over shenzhen.

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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
But thatīs a chicken and egg problem. Do international connections fly to Guangzhou because Guangzhou has better domestic connections, or do domestic connections fly to Guangzhou because Guangzhou has better international connections?
because China Southern's biggest hub is Guangzhou and they have big aircrafts to do so.

Shenzhen is too close to their main hub. so China Southern is not likely to open any routes which will compete to itself.

Shenzhen Airlines only have B739s and mainly A320s. they can't really fly to many international destinations. and there were only four remote parking space for international flights before T3's open. there is no point for them to get it too messy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
No, I do not like if I need to. But if I thought my question was clear enough, and then the answer is about something else like the question was misunderstood first time, then I try to clarify my question.

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Yes, but I counted Shenzhen routes. There are fewer than Guangzhou routes. Why?
Quote:
But why does Guangzhou have more Chinese routes than Shenzhen?
i just can't see many differences between these two questions. maybe it is just me.

Last edited by bearb; December 4th, 2013 at 07:24 PM.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
Now the airport can accommodate more flights and handle larger aircrafts i.e. A380. Shenzhen municipal government is giving out bonus to the airlines who is trying to fly to shenzhen from outside China. 10m rmb per route from other Asia destinations and 20m rmb per route from outside Asia.
Is there also any bonus for added domestic routes?
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Originally Posted by bearb View Post
because China Southern's biggest hub is Guangzhou and they have big aircrafts to do so.

Shenzhen is too close to their main hub. so China Southern is not likely to open any routes which will compete to itself.
So China Southern is uninterested in expanded Shenzhen airport - the 52 existing routes are what remains...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearb View Post
Shenzhen Airlines only have B739s and mainly A320s. they can't really fly to many international destinations. and there were only four remote parking space for international flights before T3's open. there is no point for them to get it too messy.
More importantly, they for some reason have zero orders - 64 737s and 63 Airbuses, but they do not want to buy any more!
(If they did, the queue is many years, too).

So who may want to take up the Shenzhen city offers? The next two biggest airlines at Shenzhen are Hainan and China Eastern
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Originally Posted by bearb View Post
i just can't see many differences between these two questions. maybe it is just me.
Sorry. My mistake. I was thinking on the quotes I was answering to.
The problem was that two answers seemed to miss my question and not answer them, in different ways.
First - the bigger planes. This did not answer why there are so few destinations. So, as we finally managed to figure out, the reason there are so few destinations from Shenzhen was not that big planes flew there, but because the old terminals limited the total number of flights - which was the reason for both the small number of destination and for the big planes, to make most of the few flights.
The second is still not clear. Just why does Hong Kong being "main hub" mean that Shenzhen cannot be more important than Guangzhou? If we know HKG is number 1, how does it follow that they ought to be HKG number 1, SZX number 3, CAN number 2, and not HKG number 1, SZX number 2, CAN number 3?
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Old December 5th, 2013, 01:19 AM   #645
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breaking news!!!

Donghai Airlines, a cargo carrier based in Shenzhen Airport, has submitted its application for operating domestic passenger flight.



Last edited by bearb; December 5th, 2013 at 01:32 AM.
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Old December 5th, 2013, 06:23 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by bearb View Post
breaking news!!!

Donghai Airlines, a cargo carrier based in Shenzhen Airport, has submitted its application for operating domestic passenger flight.



Can you give us some more info on the significance of Donghai Airlines entering the passenger market? Also their chances of its application being approved?
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Old December 5th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Still whichever way you look at it it doesn't seem 'much bigger' in any sense.
I think ur the only western people know what the really shenzhen is, haha.
Shenzhen is the best, and it will be famous in the world in the future, but maybe we all can not see that, maybe after 50 years. haha.
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Old December 5th, 2013, 06:54 PM   #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
Can you give us some more info on the significance of Donghai Airlines entering the passenger market? Also their chances of its application being approved?
here is the link in Chinese...
http://www.caac.gov.cn/C1/201312/t20131203_59776.html

basically there isn't any news more than that
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Old December 5th, 2013, 07:13 PM   #649
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breaking news...

China Southern will open an international route from Shenzhen to Seoul, starting from December and using A319/A320/A321, once per week...
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Old December 5th, 2013, 08:36 PM   #650
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Are there plans to open new routes between Shenzhen and non Asian airports?
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Old December 6th, 2013, 01:41 AM   #651
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Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Are there plans to open new routes between Shenzhen and non Asian airports?
Not when you have Hong Kong and China Southern's Mega hub in Guangzhou. It would be hard to get an international carrier to fly to Shenzhen. Maybe if Shenzhen Airlines got used 777s or A330s or 767s or A340s maybe they could open up some international routes.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 05:18 AM   #652
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Originally Posted by GTR66 View Post
Not when you have Hong Kong and China Southern's Mega hub in Guangzhou. It would be hard to get an international carrier to fly to Shenzhen. Maybe if Shenzhen Airlines got used 777s or A330s or 767s or A340s maybe they could open up some international routes.
Nah .. a 737 or A320 can easily reach Japan in the north and Singapore in the south. You don't need a widebody to launch an international route within East Asia out of SZX.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 06:12 AM   #653
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Originally Posted by GTR66 View Post
Not when you have Hong Kong and China Southern's Mega hub in Guangzhou. It would be hard to get an international carrier to fly to Shenzhen. Maybe if Shenzhen Airlines got used 777s or A330s or 767s or A340s maybe they could open up some international routes.
Is Bao An T3 capable of handling A380s? If so then it seems logical that it was designed in such a way as to allow it to operate as a long distance international hub notwithstanding the issues surrounding the avaliabity of wide bodied jets. Ultimately you do't want to fly to Guangzhou in order to get to Shen Zhen.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 07:02 AM   #654
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Why is this an empty Airport. The old terminal at SZX blows, i was stuck there with no RMB for five hours. I would have loved to have gone to the new terminal. Maybe they haven't set up the subway lines yet.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 07:08 AM   #655
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I know you're our resident troll but please take a moment to think before you post:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=547
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Old December 6th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
Is Bao An T3 capable of handling A380s? If so then it seems logical that it was designed in such a way as to allow it to operate as a long distance international hub notwithstanding the issues surrounding the avaliabity of wide bodied jets. Ultimately you do't want to fly to Guangzhou in order to get to Shen Zhen.
Yes it is supposed to handle A380s
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Old December 6th, 2013, 11:25 AM   #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Nah .. a 737 or A320 can easily reach Japan in the north and Singapore in the south. You don't need a widebody to launch an international route within East Asia out of SZX.
Indeed. Contemplate the map:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=2500nm%...X&MS=wls&DU=mi
If your plane has the range to fly Shenzhen to Kashgar then Karachi is only slightly further, and Denpasar and Sapporo are nearer. There is not much interesting at the limits of narrowbody range (Kabul, Ashgabat, Taskhent, Astana, Omsk, Kamchatka, Port Moresby, Alice Springs...), so you can run an international hub which serves the whole East and South Asia from SZX on narrowbodies.
Which international, short distance routes out of SZX would deserve an upgrade to widebodies purely for efficiency at large passenger volume?
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Old December 6th, 2013, 05:36 PM   #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Is there also any bonus for added domestic routes?

So China Southern is uninterested in expanded Shenzhen airport - the 52 existing routes are what remains...
no bonus for domestic routes.

from years ago, they told the government that they would be opening more international routes from shenzhen. and they got funding from the city government. but they just did not do that as what they have told others. now, as the new terminal has opened, there is a huge opportunity in shenzhen market and everyone wants to get a positive position from that. thats why the operators start to grow their routes from shenzhen. but i don't think the China Southern will be too ambitious to build its international network in shenzhen as what they have done in guangzhou.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post

More importantly, they for some reason have zero orders - 64 737s and 63 Airbuses, but they do not want to buy any more!
(If they did, the queue is many years, too).
after Air China to be the biggest share holder of Shenzhen Airlines, an order was place by Air China. 100 A320neo and 40 of them were decided for Shenzhen Airlines.

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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post

So who may want to take up the Shenzhen city offers? The next two biggest airlines at Shenzhen are Hainan and China Eastern
i would say China Southern, Shenzhen Airlines/Air China, Hainan Airlines, Spring Airlines, Juneyao Airlines and Donghai Airlines as a new passenger flights operator. Maybe Xiamen Airlines as well.
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Old December 7th, 2013, 04:42 PM   #659
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1_3BEImUdY

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Old December 7th, 2013, 06:09 PM   #660
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Yes it is supposed to handle A380s
What's your assessment of the C919 program and it's possible effect on the local aviation market after its introduction?
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