MRT Future Transit Lines - SLL, HLL, NCL, T7-Line, etc

[JediAlf]

[QUOTE=kenmin;10188449]

As for delays, I seriously wonder what's happening to Singapore. We used to be very efficient. The very first phase even completed 2 years earlier than schedule. But what's happening now? It seems that we can't stick to the completion date (even if Nicoll Highway incident din happen) eg. They say Phase 3 or CCL will be completed first in 2008. Why so? Shouldn't it be phase 2 in 2007? Note that LTA has removed all expected completion dates for CCL. "

Alamak. If you follow the timeline aftermath of Nicoll Highway collpase, these dates are further moved. These are complicated further as Government has ordered all contractors of all stations reinforce the regular monitoring of the structures of all stations. These took few weeks to adhere to the regulations set by the Government officers.

There are several stations that happened to be in Phase 2 - built by same contractors who built Nicoll Highway. So these station constructions were affected.

Feasibility study is not just one whole thing - It is divided into different parts that involve different things.

Technical, soil, land acquisation, laying the rail track, diversion of roads, electricity, cables. - All these are not really done just in one feasibility study. So LTA would conduct different studies on project - so they termed them as "feasibility studies" frequently.

Ryan, u should go down and observe the construction. It is built along busy road. It takes time to divert things and move pipes, electricity etc. Weather can affect the speed of construction. Although the project has only two station, the distance between two stations is longer than the standard distance between existing stations. This would explain the longer construction period.

[mrtfreak]

Originally Posted by JediAlf

Ryan, u should go down and observe the construction. It is built along busy road. It takes time to divert things and move pipes, electricity etc. Weather can affect the speed of construction. Although the project has only two station, the distance between two stations is longer than the standard distance between existing stations. This would explain the longer construction period.

I suppose this is the 7-11 mentality that we are commonly known for. Instant gratification for those who didn't get it. We can look at it from the positive angle and the negative angle. Compare the rail extensions to Malaysia's for instance or even Indonesia's.

Malaysia has finally announced the extensions of two of their LRT lines as well as the purchasing of critically needed rolling stock. If anyone has taken a ride on the Kelana Jaya line, well, they'd be happy with the MRT crowds compared to that. But it took awhile for the government to sort out operational issues and one-syetem ticketing (thank goodness for TnG!). Extensions to serve townships that needed them were mulled for some lengthy time before the government finally was dedicated to funding them.

As for Indonesia. Have you heard of their on-off monorail? Construction starts, then halts, starts again only to be halted by some other issue.

Two stations, but how long did the changi extension take? 1999 to 2002 if I remember, roughly 3 years? The Boon Lay Extension would take about the same time. Also, after the Nicoll Highway incident, things have been tightened up. So yeah, maybe they need time for more checks or things as such. I'm sure you'd agree to better construction and enforcement than another Nicoll Highway incident right?

If you take a look at the pictures in the MRT/LRT pictures thread, you'd see that construction takes place close to the HDB flats. To minimise the disturbance, I'd think that major construction would take place during the day rather than during the night due to noise issues and such.

[RafflesCity]

Originally Posted by ignoramus

I'm pretty convinced the affluent in Taipei are richer than those in Singapore.

Singapore has Asia's highest concentration of millionaires

10 Oct 06

Singapore- The ranks of millionaires in Singapore have swelled, as the city-state now has the highest concentration of such affluent people in Asia, a survey said Wednesday. The Merrill Lynch-Capgemini report found that there were 55,000 people with net assets above the 1-million-US-dollar mark last year, a 13.4 per cent rise over the previous 12 months.

The swell was attributed to the stock market boom.

The figures published in The Straits Times work out to a concentration of 1.48 per cent of the adult population, far higher than the global average of 0.22 per cent and Asia's average of 0.1 per cent.

Asia's millionaires grew by 7.3 per cent last year to 2.4 million people, with a combined wealth of 7.6 trillion US dollars. The report forecasts the figure will reach 10.6 trillion US dollars by 2010.

With 1.4 million millionaires, Japan has a concentration of 1.29 per cent. China, with 320,000 millionaires, has a concentration of 0.03 per cent.

"The solid stock-market performance and economic growth were the key drivers of wealth creation in Singapore," Tho Gea Hong, Merrill Lynch's Singapore market director, was quoted by the Straits Times as saying.

Collectively, Singapore's wealthy held 260 billion US dollars in assets last year.

Singapore's rich had the third-highest average net worth in Asia, the report said. Each of the country's 55,000 well-to-do individuals were worth an average of 4.7 million US dollars, trailing Hong Kong with an average of 5.3 million US dollars and China with 5 million US dollars.

© 2006 dpa German Press Agency

You may also check out a similar article here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...aDo&refer=asia

[RafflesCity]

Originally Posted by JediAlf

Technical, soil, land acquisation, laying the rail track, diversion of roads, electricity, cables. - All these are not really done just in one feasibility study. So LTA would conduct different studies on project - so they termed them as "feasibility studies" frequently.

Ryan, u should go down and observe the construction. It is built along busy road. It takes time to divert things and move pipes, electricity etc. Weather can affect the speed of construction. Although the project has only two station, the distance between two stations is longer than the standard distance between existing stations. This would explain the longer construction period.

You are right, prior to the actual construction of any new rail, the consultation process is very detailed and thorough, as many parties are affected. Its not a simple case of just plan the stations and start building.

Those working with LTA and the affected parties in the railway area should know how tedious the process is. Suffice to say, even the plans for future rails are already being explored despite probably being implemented in 20 years time.

[heirloom]

@raffles
i've read that article too, but dont forget singapore's income disparity is very high too.

i always thought taiwan was a lower income country up until a few years ago when i saw some gdp figures that quite suprised me. and since taipei's a capital city, its not too much to extrapolate that its average income is appreciably higher.

[RafflesCity]

the article was pointing out that collectively, Singapore's most affluent rank in the top 3 in Asia behind HK and China - so it is hardly convincing (as opined) that the most affluent in Taipei (actually all of Taiwan) surpass Singapore. It suggests otherwise.

[JediAlf]

Originally Posted by mrtfreak

Two stations, but how long did the changi extension take? 1999 to 2002 if I remember, roughly 3 years? The Boon Lay Extension would take about the same time. Also, after the Nicoll Highway incident, things have been tightened up. So yeah, maybe they need time for more checks or things as such. I'm sure you'd agree to better construction and enforcement than another Nicoll Highway incident right?

If you take a look at the pictures in the MRT/LRT pictures thread, you'd see that construction takes place close to the HDB flats. To minimise the disturbance, I'd think that major construction would take place during the day rather than during the night due to noise issues and such.

This is right!

As for Changi Extension, the reason for long construction period is due to complicated part where they had to do tunnelling under the airport runway (which is actually in the middle of 4 km airport runway to ensure there is no pressure applied by landing planes which normally land after "piano keys" near the edges of the runway.).

Also the distance from Expo to Changi airport is much longer. almost similiar to the distance between Clementi and Jurong East stations.

Same goes for Boon Lay extension. Winks.

[blizzardtweaker]

Originally Posted by JediAlf

Also the distance from Expo to Changi airport is much longer. almost similiar to the distance between Clementi and Jurong East stations.

Same goes for Boon Lay extension. Winks.

i think the point brought out was that, the BLE is so short (esp the dist btwn the first sta and boon lay), so there is no reason aim for such a late completion date.

[redstone]

RC: Affluence gap quite big

[ddes]

Abt Future Transit Lines, it was mentioned in the papers somewhere, I can't remember, that the ERL would be underground and elevated. Does anyone noe which parts of it would be elevated?

Abt the North Shore Line, other than Punggol, what are the expected stations? Care to speculate? Maybe a Seletar Airport station? A Pasir Ris Farmway station? Simpang station east of Yishun station?

Other than the JRL, ERL, North Shore Line and BTL, any speculations for new lines?

[mrtfreak]

Originally Posted by blizzardtweaker

i think the point brought out was that, the BLE is so short (esp the dist btwn the first sta and boon lay), so there is no reason aim for such a late completion date.

Never know whether they'd open it before hand now would we? Expo station was opened on 10 Jan 2001 while Changi Airport station somewhere in February 2002. The way I see it, the Pioneer station segment will be ready way before the Joo Koon station segment. The structure for Pioneer station has already began to take place. Beams supporting the platform deck are being constructed (and some are already in place). Although beam launching is between Joo Koon and Pioneer stations, the majority of the constructed pillars are between Pioneer and Boon Lay. So yeah, what's not to say that Pioneer station will open first? And if it does, that'd be a bonus to Boon Lay station since they would not have to deal with such a big crowd.

[heirloom]

Originally Posted by RafflesCity

the article was pointing out that collectively, Singapore's most affluent rank in the top 3 in Asia behind HK and China - so it is hardly convincing (as opined) that the most affluent in Taipei (actually all of Taiwan) surpass Singapore. It suggests otherwise.

i read that article too - nice to know that singapore's got some rich people. however, i am still of the opinion that taipei's populace is more affluent in general than singapore - i'm too lazy to dig up gdp per capita figures, but i vaguely remember taiwan's average was close to singapore's.

[kenmin]

Originally Posted by ignoramus

Copyright ignoramus

Look at how dense this is. Blocks more than 10 floors high cramped up. They really need the lines...

Most developments in Singapore don't stretch more than 2km left right top bottom from an MRT station. Beyond that its pretty ulu.

Its natural that the construction of metro systems in cities worldwide slow after an initial boom after most of the areas in the city has already been served by the metro. The remaining areas are generally of lower priority and funds have to be diverted elsewhere. After the CCL its basically okay already. We don't want to waste govt funds right since most of the remaining areas are more ulu and has less traffic.

No matter what both Muzha and LRT are public rail infrastructure projects except that they serve different areas of operation so it should be included in the comparison.

Not denying that Taipei needs such a system. but with 50% our size, that will mean double our coverage. As a city almost as dense, shouldn't we have a similar coverage, especially when we have a headstart? Some areas, like Northshore should wait. but ERL and BTL shouldn't wait so long. these area are pretty built up, esp ERL area, eg marine parade. They have been waiting for the MRT since the go a head was given. after more than 2 decades, they are still waiting. The stretch along Upper Bukit Timah Road might be sparsely populated but dun forget that there are lines that run a long stretch w/o stations, eg. Changi Airport - Expo, Khatib - YCK, Kranji - Yew Tee, Harbour Front - Outram, so it will work if connected to a populated town like Bt Panjang. And to make an area even more populated, better infrastructure should be provided. Instead of you come then I give, the approach should be I give so you to come.

And if LRT is to be included into the comparison, it will only be fair to add in approximately 20km railway line that serve say Nangang to Banqiao, since it's also public infrastructure.

[Nov]

Originally Posted by ddarkdom

Other than the JRL, ERL, North Shore Line and BTL, any speculations for new lines?

Have you seen my fantasy maps? It also shows the expected land reclaimation for Changi and pulau tekong.

[ignoramus]

Originally Posted by kenmin

Not denying that Taipei needs such a system. but with 50% our size, that will mean double our coverage. As a city almost as dense, shouldn't we have a similar coverage, especially when we have a headstart? Some areas, like Northshore should wait. but ERL and BTL shouldn't wait so long. these area are pretty built up, esp ERL area, eg marine parade. They have been waiting for the MRT since the go a head was given. after more than 2 decades, they are still waiting. The stretch along Upper Bukit Timah Road might be sparsely populated but dun forget that there are lines that run a long stretch w/o stations, eg. Changi Airport - Expo, Khatib - YCK, Kranji - Yew Tee, Harbour Front - Outram, so it will work if connected to a populated town like Bt Panjang. And to make an area even more populated, better infrastructure should be provided. Instead of you come then I give, the approach should be I give so you to come.

And if LRT is to be included into the comparison, it will only be fair to add in approximately 20km railway line that serve say Nangang to Banqiao, since it's also public infrastructure.

There's no Nangang in TRTC except for the future on the Blue Line. I thought you included the Blue Line (Kunyang to Banqiao and beyond) in your figures?

TRA's hybrid commuter/intercity line and its commuter service is far less frequent than a metro's so it should not be included. All TRTC lines provide frequent service to locations for the population, like all of Singapore's MRT and LRT lines so this should be a fairer comparison. What's to be included = Any rail service that provides the population with a frequent rapid service to places
because thats what the people care for most, not whether one service is defined as feeder or trunk.

This thread is going off topic. In summary Singapore should not adopt a ''Taipei & other cities build more subway lines then we should too'' policy because other cities like Taipei are more dense than Singapore. Singapore uber dense in the main areas, but can be pretty ulu as well. For Taipei, its just dense all around (minus hillsides). After all, Singapore's development is just super dense in the main areas and not the least bit so in other areas. Thats why you see high rise HDBs on one side of the road and once you cross it, its pretty ulu for the next 5 kilometres.

The Eastern Region Line should be the line that follows after the finish of CCL (and if BTL's 3 car) then maybe BTL too but definitely not much more than that unless the govt gives private developers like MTR a hand in developing lines and getting people to go there. With the SG govt's current policy of funding rail lines it would be a waste of taxpayer's money to have lines like Arts Line or whatever line etc.

[Nov]

How many lines does it have? They seem to have a habit of naming one line with 2 different names in Taiwan. Very confusing leh.

So can someone give me the comparisons for:

1. Number of lines
2. Number of stations
3. Total length of network

so that we can put this debate to rest?

Ignoramus, I agree with you though that the ERL should be the next priority, but the Jurong/Tuas area really needs some sort of connection between NTU, the army camps and the residential areas there. Some sort of LRT would be good there as well.

I don't personally see the need for the BTL at the moment though, but the gahmen should definately look at a second line from the CBD north towards AMK to relieve congestion on the existing NSL during peak hours.

[mrtfreak]

I was thinking of that too and wondering if they could build the BTL towards Woodlands to act as a relief for the NSL. But really, assuming they take 6 years to complete the construction of a line, wouldn't 6 years (2013 then) be a lot of time for Bukit Timah and Upper Bukit Timah to develop? I would've thought the LTA would want to build in anticipation of the demand (ie. NEL), guess that after the NEL's failure to meet project travel levels they're very very very much more cautious. Would building the BTL to the Woodlands Checkpoint help offset the losses if it just ended at Bukit Panjang?

Imagine that then, real transport company competition. You'd have 170 from Woodlands Checkpoint to Queen Street versus 190 Bukit Panjang to Orchard versus the BTL from Woodlands/Woodlands Checkpoint/Bukit Panjang to Promenade. I think if the BTL followed that alignment the LTA would retract at least 190.

[Nov]

Eh? I don't think the BTL can act as relief for the NSL... at least not that much. Most of the traffic on the NSL is between YCK and AMK and the CBD during peak hours. That needs to be fixed. The BTL might relief some traffic from Sembawang, but it's always easier (and probably more convienent) to travel on the NSL from the north towards Jurong and change to the EWL from there.

[mrtfreak]

Well maybe not as a total relief per se, but I noticed that Woodlands also seems to be a station where a lot of people get off and on in either direction and was wondering if there were another direct MRT link to town, which they'd take. I suppose the BTL would be an alternative since it'd have relatively few stations in along the Upper Bukit Timah stretch and beyond towards Woodlands.

Also, with the possible switch of the Woolands, Marsiling, Admiralty, Sembawang passengers to the BTL, the Yishun, Khatib, YCK, AMK, Bishan passengers would possibly have more room. Combined with the circle line which would be up by then, wouldn't you say that there's a possiblity for passenger movement to change? I dunno, maybe its just my theory.

[heirloom]

wouldnt the nsl peak time crunch be easily solved by just increasing arrival frequencies?