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Old December 15th, 2008, 10:41 AM   #701
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
New York may not be a capital city of a nation, but every nation on earth has a consulate in New York if they can afford to operate one. New York is the most important city in the most powerful nation on earth, and a nexus of global political engagement. The United Nations is in New York. That trumped all national capitals accept Washington. There's a strong argument for New York being #2 in the 'political engagement' category.



What page of the study does it allude to that? When analyzing methodology and criteria, the study seemed quite thorough, solid, and intelligent. It's important to question research, but I just don't see your criticism being valid. I'm open to changing my mind about that study, but would you elaborate further and make a good case for what you are asserting.
Okay: The research takes in account metropolitan New York and Greater London. But to make it comparable they should add the entire metropolitan region of London - that would give a very different image of the statistics.
I have the entire research in the magazine "Geographische Rundschau" and I am surprised that Frankfurt is given as municipality - which only sums up 660k inhabitants - but much of the economic activity takes place in the conurbation area, such as Eschborn where you find lots of international activities and soon even the German stock exchange - Deutsche Börse - will be in Eschborn. Often it is to reduce costs. So if New York is stated as one with New Jersey and other metropolitan cities, they should do the same with other cities also. Paris is "metropolitan region" given with 10 mln people, Madrid, Munich and Milan only as city itself. Same goes for the Dutch cities, while Tokyo again is counted as an enormous region of 34 million people, Istanbul as Vilayet (that means the entire province!), Tel Aviv also as metro, but Cairo only as city proper. Sao Paulo is taken as metro region, while Mexico City is stated only within it's city's boundaries... That makes the stats more confusing than a constructive project! Sorry, but they should make at first all data available for all metro regions and get along with how they find a method to make the ciies' metros comparable and then, well, then they have something to compare!
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Old December 15th, 2008, 02:52 PM   #702
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Originally Posted by shadyunltd View Post
Before bullshitting me, read better.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2004rank.html

"than for ALL the EU countries". Not one every single country, I said European Union as an entity...

About Suomi...

1 - Americans get better health care than Europeans, they just pay for it. That's it. A lot of employers do provide health care insurance to their employees, covering most of the fees. I saw a ranking about "citizens' satisfaction rates" regarding health care, and the USA was at the top. I live in Canada where there is UHC, and the level of satisfaction is not that high due to the enormous waiting lists and old equipment, both of which are close to being nonexistent in the USA.

A lot of Canadians actually go to the USA to get treated because the equipment is just not available here or the waiting list is too big.

2 - The Germans were ahead in some fields. They were ahead of every country, even Britain. However, the US made it up by having - by far - the largest industrial potential in the world.

The RAF did great defending their country but most of the OFFENSIVE was made by the USAF. Don't get me wrong there. You can say what you want, nobody is undermining what the Russians did (they did half the work, but they did not invade North Africa, Italy and Normandy with some clever ruse), but you seem pretty hell bent on proving that the USA had nothing to do with the Allies winning the War.

3 - By the way. There is public transportation in the USA. The one thing not helping its growth is the **** sprawl (which I hate). New York has one of the most extensive subway in the world (in terms of system length, I think they're second behind London by some 30 km and the only 24/7 subway system in the world).

4 - No, my statement is not contradictory. A lot of people in the US are against firearms but still accept the fact that it is in the CONSTITUTION.

Sorry for offtopic modes last reply
shady,keep your tongue on a leash, even if you trust this site(I am not sure bout it), it is still clear that number 45,700 is NOT FAR MORE HIGHER than 32,700. Even though I sincerely doubt these numbers)


As for cities,my choice would be:
Paris
Prague
Rome
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Old December 15th, 2008, 03:51 PM   #703
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Originally Posted by Skyline_FFM View Post
Okay: The research takes in account metropolitan New York and Greater London. But to make it comparable they should add the entire metropolitan region of London - that would give a very different image of the statistics.
I have the entire research in the magazine "Geographische Rundschau" and I am surprised that Frankfurt is given as municipality - which only sums up 660k inhabitants - but much of the economic activity takes place in the conurbation area, such as Eschborn where you find lots of international activities and soon even the German stock exchange - Deutsche Börse - will be in Eschborn. Often it is to reduce costs. So if New York is stated as one with New Jersey and other metropolitan cities, they should do the same with other cities also. Paris is "metropolitan region" given with 10 mln people, Madrid, Munich and Milan only as city itself. Same goes for the Dutch cities, while Tokyo again is counted as an enormous region of 34 million people, Istanbul as Vilayet (that means the entire province!), Tel Aviv also as metro, but Cairo only as city proper. Sao Paulo is taken as metro region, while Mexico City is stated only within it's city's boundaries... That makes the stats more confusing than a constructive project! Sorry, but they should make at first all data available for all metro regions and get along with how they find a method to make the ciies' metros comparable and then, well, then they have something to compare!
So they used Greater London (8 million) instead of the larger figure of 12 - 14 million depending on how far out you count? It's a fair criticism, but do you think these outlying areas would change the rankings that much. Almost all of the 5 functions measured are concentrated in central cities, and give a good indication of the strength of these assets within the metro. A lot of the omissions are minor, but you are correct to point out the more significant omissions.

A German stock exchange outside of the central city of Frankfurt is a huge asset that shouldn't be excluded. Likewise, it explains the #26 ranking in 'Business Activity' of Toronto, and a few other 'red flags'. There seem to be more flaws than I previously noticed, but I wouldn't classify the ranking as 'crap'. It provides a good summary of the relative strengths and weaknesses of cities.

Like all rankings, they are meant to be a rough guide, and never meant as something set in stone. Toronto being ranked #10 overall, doesn't mean Toronto is #10. It means that Toronto's overall strengths would rank it around there. It could have been #7, it could have been #14.

The value lies in understanding the criteria, what was counted, what wasn't, and pinpointing strengths and weaknesses so that municipal governments can pinpoint areas that they can target to make their communities stronger competitors globally. The result is growth, and wealth formation. Herein lies the value of such studies. They aren't 'crap', but valuable data in the hands of people who can use it to benefit the places in which they live.

What would you count as a better reflection of Frankfurt's population? What figure would better reflect how population is counted in the States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyunltd View Post
A lot of Canadians actually go to the USA to get treated because the equipment is just not available here or the waiting list is too big.
Come on now. You know that's not accurate. Of the millions of hospital/doctor visits, only a few Canadians go to the US instead. They have high end privatized health clinics in the US, so if you pay you can go to the front of the line and get pampered. It's not a fair reflection of the overall health services available to Canadians versus Americans. Those clinics that a few Canadians opt for aren't exactly available to 90% of the US population either. They're very very expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_FFM View Post
But it is really impossible to say which city is the nices. Rothenburg ob der Tauber is a small city no one knows. So it would never be mentioned. Same goes for at least tens of thousands of citiesw around the globe!
That's a very good point. Big famous cities that are universally known are going to be mentioned over smaller places that are hidden secrets within their own nation. Rothenburg looks great, btw.
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Old December 15th, 2008, 05:02 PM   #704
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Okay, you are right. I dunno how much difference the metro region would make for London. Anyway, for Frankfurt and cities like Amsterdam/Rotterdam, it makes a huge difference. To call it crap was exaggerated, but it is not perfect...
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Old December 15th, 2008, 05:09 PM   #705
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No system is.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 05:21 AM   #706
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Originally Posted by SuomiPoika View Post


The majority of Americans are far worse off than most Europeans. Who cares if some rich people can get the best. Of course they can, no matter what country they live in.
Actually in Canada and many countries in europe you do not have private medical care (at least in the "white" market). In Canada if you have money or not, you die anyway. In the US if you have money (and everybody can have the money if they work hard) you can live. It is better that some people live compared to a situation were everybody dies, isn't it?

And 80% of the americans have health insurance, this means that 80% of the americans have better medical care than europeans.

Educate yourself with John Stossel quality documentaries: Sick in America

Anyway, this is about political ideology (libertarianism/conservatism/socialism), and you look like quite faithfull to the welfare state "religion".

Quote:

Who cares? You´re wrong. The US could never have bombed anything without using Britain as a base. Not to mention that the RAF contributed massively to the war effort.
1- I didn't say that Britain wasn't important. I said that the US was probably the most important allied in the WW2 because they defeated Japan and helped to defeat (diretly and indirectly) Germany and Italy. Yes, more Russians died in battle than americans, however, the US was bu far the most important supplier of resources for the allieds. The meat for the war effort was provided by Russia and the steel was provided by the US.

2- More american soldiers died in the war than british!

Quote:
Second, without the Russians the Americans would have had to fought the whole German army in all its power. As we all know both the Americans and the Brits needed to be superior in all ways before they even had a chance of winning.
Proportion of the world's warmaking potential in 1940 was rougly like that:

US - 43%
Germany - 16%
Britain - 12%
USRR - 11%
Italy - 2,5%
Japan - 3%

Axis: 21,5%
Allies: 66%
Allies - Russia: 55%

Since: 55 > 21,5
Allies win!

In 1940 the US could defeat anything alone (Russia helped to save some american boy's lives at least by utilizing its population as cannon foder).

Quote:
Er..no. Had the British turned on them the US would have lost the war. As for technology, the Germans were ahead of the Americans.
At the start they were (1939), at the end they weren't (1945). And the Russians defeated Germany's superior technology with pratically stone age weapons (some exceptions allowed).
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Old December 17th, 2008, 05:44 AM   #707
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
People aren't born on an even playing field. Many would have no chance to be middle class if it weren't for government, let alone have an investor/owner income.

John McCain once said in his campaign that he's not about "spreading the wealth" but rather "spreading opportunity". Opportunity ain't cheap though.

Anyway, I believe in democracy before any specific ideology. Let the people decide and live with their decision.

...oh yeah, most beautiful cities.
1- This "equality of opportunity" stuff is bullshit. People are born different and never are and never will be in a level playing field.

If you are born with more money than somebody and this makes your life easier and if you are born more intelligent than somebody this too makes your life easier. How do you make the State compensate for the natural diference of intelligence? The idea of level playing field is impossible to achieve and the state should not act with this objetive in mind.

The only legitimate function of the state is to make a level field of freedom for any individual to use his/her money, inteligence or talent in the way that his/her see fit.

2- Democracy is a means to an end system, not an end in itself.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 11:42 AM   #708
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Actually in Canada and many countries in europe you do not have private medical care (at least in the "white" market). In Canada if you have money or not, you die anyway. In the US if you have money (and everybody can have the money if they work hard) you can live. It is better that some people live compared to a situation were everybody dies, isn't it?[/QUOTE]
I don't know about Canada. But private this is not desireable. It causes gaps in health care for everyone. And having one system for all means that rich people do also finance the system that cares for the poor. But there are some private hospitals in Europe too. But there is no real necessity for them since health care is first class for everyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
And 80% of the americans have health insurance, this means that 80% of the americans have better medical care than europeans.
Where do you get that figure from? Only 60% of Americans ahve health insurance. Those who don't have are either NOT treated or have only basic treatment. Here in Europe/Germany even those who have no work are paid their health insurance and their parts for retirement by the government - discounting those who don't want any social welfare, you can say basically that about 100% has health insurance. Plus the social welfare system here provides housing, heating and money to spend on personal issues. If necessary from birth to death... This does not exist in the US. At least I have never heard of people dying of non-treatment because of lack of health insurance.

[QUOTE=Guaporense;29499426]Educate yourself with John Stossel quality documentaries: Sick in America

No thank you there is enough propaganda around the country already...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
Anyway, this is about political ideology (libertarianism/conservatism/socialism), and you look like quite faithfull to the welfare state "religion".
Social welfare prevents our countries from having the streets full of begglars, criminals and totally slummed suburbia. And provides good quality of life also for those who themselves couldn't care for a higher standard of living. Do you think it is better to let poor people die or let them kill each other in suburben slums!? And the rest of the population living in golden cages in gated communities? No, we do not appreciate that style of living. And I think even many Americans would prefer NOT to live in a gated community if it was possible. I don't know where you are from, but I know that you don't know very much about Europe and the USA...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
1- I didn't say that Britain wasn't important. I said that the US was probably the most important allied in the WW2 because they defeated Japan and helped to defeat (diretly and indirectly) Germany and Italy. Yes, more Russians died in battle than americans, however, the US was bu far the most important supplier of resources for the allieds. The meat for the war effort was provided by Russia and the steel was provided by the US.
Without the allies in Europe, the USA would have had many more deaths!

[QUOTE=Guaporense;29499426]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
2- More american soldiers died in the war than british!
Which is not a proof of being good strategically spoken. If Britains, who fought from the beginning of the war had less deaths then maybe because they had better strategies....

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Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
At the start they were (1939), at the end they weren't (1945). And the Russians defeated Germany's superior technology with pratically stone age weapons (some exceptions allowed).
And with a polar winter and a warm spring that made German technology sink into the mud.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 11:46 AM   #709
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Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
1- This "equality of opportunity" stuff is bullshit. People are born different and never are and never will be in a level playing field.

If you are born with more money than somebody and this makes your life easier and if you are born more intelligent than somebody this too makes your life easier. How do you make the State compensate for the natural diference of intelligence? The idea of level playing field is impossible to achieve and the state should not act with this objetive in mind.

The only legitimate function of the state is to make a level field of freedom for any individual to use his/her money, inteligence or talent in the way that his/her see fit.

2- Democracy is a means to an end system, not an end in itself.
You are close-minded. So you think the Europeans and Americans should be more aggressive also to defend their needs? Okay, then let's bomb out all the poor countries and rob their natural ressources - the right of the stronger who survives. Is that what you wanted to say?
Our system may not be perfect. But we can go get money from the bank late at night alone on the street and no one robs us. This feeling of safety is a big WIN for quality of life. And don't forget we are HUMANS and not in a jungle. I suppose you are a jungle kid. At least your opinion makes me think that!
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Old December 17th, 2008, 01:23 PM   #710
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Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
Actually in Canada and many countries in europe you do not have private medical care (at least in the "white" market). In Canada if you have money or not, you die anyway. In the US if you have money (and everybody can have the money if they work hard) you can live. It is better that some people live compared to a situation were everybody dies, isn't it?
I don´t really know what you´re getting at here but;

1) We do have private medical care here. Rich people always get their way.

2) The rest of the population can enjoy a good health care system. A system that doesn´t exist in the US.

3) This myth about America being the land of oppurtunity is quite dated don´t you think. America must have been a dream for 19th century Europeans escaping the poor reality they had to face everyday in Europe.But we living in the 21th century. There are loads of poor people in the US. Many people work three different jobs and still struggle to keep their house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
And 80% of the americans have health insurance, this means that 80% of the americans have better medical care than europeans.
As has already been pointed out, 60% of Americans have health insurance i.e. they can afford to get sick. Not very ideal if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
Anyway, this is about political ideology (libertarianism/conservatism/socialism), and you look like quite faithfull to the welfare state "religion".
And? Why wouldn´t I support the welfare state? The more equal people are, the better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
More american soldiers died in the war than british!
The British losses range between 300 000 - 380 000. The US army lost little over 400 000 soldiers. We have to remember though, that the US had a larger poulation than Britain so if we´re talking about percentage here, the British army suffered bigger losses.

Anyway, compared to the 10 million Russians or over 3.5 million Germans sodiers who were killed during the war, the western allies were very lucky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
Proportion of the world's warmaking potential in 1940 was rougly like that:

US - 43%
Germany - 16%
Britain - 12%
USRR - 11%
Italy - 2,5%
Japan - 3%

Axis: 21,5%
Allies: 66%
Allies - Russia: 55%

Since: 55 > 21,5
Allies win!
Yep, the allied pretty much won thanks to their economic resources and the Russian army. Not because they were better soldiers.

If both the allies and the axies would have produced the same amount of
war material the allies could not have won. Everytime they faced the Germans they had to be superior, because the Germans army was better in almost every way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
In 1940 the US could defeat anything alone (Russia helped to save some american boy's lives at least by utilizing its population as cannon foder).
You don´t seem to understand anything. The east front was in a whole different league than the western one. The western allied never fought the Germans army at the peak of its strength, and quite frankly I´m very relieved they didn´t.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
And the Russians defeated Germany's superior technology with pratically stone age weapons (some exceptions allowed).
What? The Russians had way better tanks and weapons than the western allies.

Last edited by Mr Bricks; December 17th, 2008 at 01:55 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 04:57 PM   #711
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Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
...In Canada if you have money or not, you die anyway. In the US if you have money (and everybody can have the money if they work hard) you can live. It is better that some people live compared to a situation were everybody dies, isn't it?...


This tells a different story...
http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyand...6-808e49be3eff



I've also taken the liberty to edit (in bold) your statement in order to make it more realistic:

...In Canada if you have money or not, you can live. In the US, only if you have money or are willing to make significant financial sacrifices (and not everybody can have the money because a capitalist system unevenly distributes wealth) you can live. It is better that everyone has a chance at living and not just some people, isn't it?...



BTW...sticking to the topic...Here are my (updated) top choices :

Been to:
Central London
Manhattan
Vancouver
Honourable mention: San Francisco

From Pictures/impression:
Paris
Barcelona
Florence
Honourable mentions: Rome, Prague, Sydney, HK
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Old December 17th, 2008, 11:49 PM   #712
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Stop fighting. What's the fighting about? Let us have our system and we can let you have yours. If you don't like our system don't come here. simple as that. you're inferior complex really shows there SuomiPoika. Now Everyone stop fighting. This thread will probably close soon
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Old December 18th, 2008, 12:54 AM   #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
1- This "equality of opportunity" stuff is bullshit. People are born different and never are and never will be in a level playing field.

If you are born with more money than somebody and this makes your life easier and if you are born more intelligent than somebody this too makes your life easier. How do you make the State compensate for the natural diference of intelligence? The idea of level playing field is impossible to achieve and the state should not act with this objetive in mind.

The only legitimate function of the state is to make a level field of freedom for any individual to use his/her money, inteligence or talent in the way that his/her see fit.
So it's OK to shit on people who's contribution to society is low, yet when they ask for the opportunity to contribute we shit on them a second time?

That's not human.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
2- Democracy is a means to an end system, not an end in itself.
So you believe in conservatism (or whatever your ideology is) before democracy? You think conservatives should fight for power and permanence rather than vote (at the risk of losing)?

Even though I probably wouldn't vote for the same people you would, I would still fight and risk my life for Canadians' rights to vote for those people.
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Old December 18th, 2008, 09:06 AM   #714
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Stop fighting. What's the fighting about? Let us have our system and we can let you have yours. If you don't like our system don't come here. simple as that. you're inferior complex really shows there SuomiPoika. Now Everyone stop fighting. This thread will probably close soon
Why should someone from a country that has one of the highest standards of living have an inferiority complex?
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Old December 18th, 2008, 09:15 AM   #715
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^ It's called a low blow.



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Old December 18th, 2008, 09:24 AM   #716
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you're inferior complex really shows there SuomiPoika
("Your", I guess?) And, yeah, the Finns have every reason to feel "inferior"...
Helsinki is essentially a place with no future... Much like Detroit.
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Old December 18th, 2008, 01:37 PM   #717
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you're inferior complex really shows there SuomiPoika
as someone who has just read through the last pages I'd say that he's answered everything you've thrown at him and basically owned you all.
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Old December 18th, 2008, 10:00 PM   #718
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lol of course everyone gets mad at me.

i haven't even spoken to him btw, blackpool.

But maybe inferior complex wasn't the word i was looking for.

Although just because someone lives in a country that has the highest standard of living doesn't mean they wouldn't exist. Inferior complexes, i don't think, have government borders \

of course, no matter what justification i give, i will not win because i will just keep being attacked. So, just let it go, because it will go nowhere

Again, stop or this thread goes down the shoot

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Old December 18th, 2008, 10:15 PM   #719
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Originally Posted by Bahnsteig4 View Post
("Your", I guess?) And, yeah, the Finns have every reason to feel "inferior"...
Helsinki is essentially a place with no future... Much like Detroit.
wow i used your in a wrong form. yawn

nice comparison, because we all know detroit is essentially the only city in this extremely small bitter country right? Of coures, the comparison is only fair considering Helsinki is the capital city of Finland and the largest, while Detroit is also the capital city and largest too.
Complete Chode

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Old December 19th, 2008, 03:00 AM   #720
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Originally Posted by Skyline_FFM View Post
Why should someone from a country that has one of the highest standards of living have an inferiority complex?


Not really sure, but his inferiority complex is glaringly pathetic.
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